Question for the sage's

Okay, so I have gotten better at the game...Play people from New Orleans to Mobile... Now all of the sudden everyone wants weight...to gamble...
How do you guys handle that... giving up the weight... Is it a natural progression into playing one pocket better?

I am really interested in what some of the older players think about this... giving up 10 to 7 or more weight, it can be real heartache sometimes...and a tough game to win...especially when I am not breaking... I have heard of the outrunning the nuts, but damn how do you mentally prepare for it...

B

PS Yes I lost my last foray... Had to give up 10 to 7... is it because I am just too stupid to realize I was in a trap...:frus

You're getting out hustled

I make a point never giving a guy that shoots pool better than me weight -- even if they don't play much One Pocket and I know that's not a lie (for once, lol). I just can't stand the idea of losing anything to a better player just because they have been lazy about learning the game. I will play them even -- but that's like giving up a handicap anyway, since they are a better pool player, right?

As for outrunning the nuts -- I have heard that a lot from interviewing old time players. I know Ronnie Allen specifically mentioned that's when he had his biggest scores. Of course, often he had a backer, lol.

In my own small world, I reserve "outrunning the nuts" kind of handicaps for opponents and situations where I know based on prior playing experience with that particular player I have a good idea that in that kind of pressure situation that opponent tends to give me a chance to win -- even though the handicap does appear tilted the wrong way. But I don't play that card over and over again because the numbers in fact don't really work (otherwise it would not be outrunning the nuts). So it is intended for a quick significant hit or a KO kind of combination, not a marathon. So they have to bet more for that one too. And it is indeed a gamble!!

If it's a marathon however, you have to get the spot back to something where at least if you shoot your game you should win unless they shoot over their head. And if you are a better player, you should win at least some kind of majority of the time. Not all the time or you are a "nut hunter". If you are planning to play a marathon session -- reserve the "outrunning the nuts" for the end -- when you have the feeling that you can deliver the KO -- assuming you are still feeling good about your own game at that pint in the session!!!

Question for the sage's

In my opinion, giving a spot is OK but you have to know that it means your time to play them and win the cash is now on the clock. If you keep winning, they will eventually adjust the spot until that day is over. Therefore, you need to make them "pay for" each adjustment. Never jump to a big spot if you can help it, unless it's a big score.

If THEY ask to gamble and they want weight: DONT DO IT!!!!! Most are in the 'business of stealing.' Lol.

If YOU ask to gamble and then they say, 'Well, I think I need some weight.', then more than likely you're gonna have to give it to get the game.

Other than that: Everyone plays EVEN till futher notice. Lol. :heh

In one pocket it's mostly about moves, moving balls, and getting the first shot.That's the way I see it for the average to good players. Playing weaker players you should be able to give weight in one pocket, it's not a luck game.
How much weight depends on several factors.

The great ones, well it's mostly about mistakes, they all move good and they all run out when given the opportunity, so the first one who makes an error usually loses the game.

With average players, mistakes are more common and ball runs are seldom 8 & out, so I try to gage the weight to the caliber of player I am and also to specific abilities of whatever opponent I'm trying to match up with.

By that I simply mean if he can't run many balls I can give him more weight, if he moves poorly, factor that in, if he gets weaker as we play add that in also. Factor in the wager, people can sometimes beat Efren for $10.00 a game, but for $50.00 they couldn't beat Shirley Temple.

Lots of things to consider when spotting someone, mostly I think it's about your ability to carry it for an extended period of time, because once you give it and win, there's no going back, it stays the same or gets worse if you continue to win. So if you're wanting to continue to play a certain player, your best move would probably be to leave yourself a little wiggle room when matching up, just for future negotiations.

Jmo

Jeff

wgcp said:

Okay, so I have gotten better at the game...Play people from New Orleans to Mobile... Now all of the sudden everyone wants weight...to gamble...
How do you guys handle that... giving up the weight... Is it a natural progression into playing one pocket better?

I am really interested in what some of the older players think about this... giving up 10 to 7 or more weight, it can be real heartache sometimes...and a tough game to win...especially when I am not breaking... I have heard of the outrunning the nuts, but damn how do you mentally prepare for it...

B

PS Yes I lost my last foray... Had to give up 10 to 7... is it because I am just too stupid to realize I was in a trap...:frus

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Bille, you want to play and everyone knows it. Once you start giving up weight it is a slippery slope. You just have to outwait them and remember, they want to play too..

Giving up weight in one pocket depends a lot on your style of play.

Do you win with strategy and outsmarting your opponent or do you win by running balls?

If you run balls well and have lots of confidence in your ability then giving up weight is a lot easier. All you need is one or two shots of any kind and you should win the game.

A good measure is how you play 9 ball. Can you give up a lot of weight and still win? If so your odds of doing the same in one pocket are good.

Bill S.

What did you do when they were throwing rocks at your gunship?

Ask them how much they're comfortable betting...then bet more.

Good luck my man, it doesn't get easy from here. This is the curse of getting better.

thanks guys

thanks guys

I usually outmove my opponents... maybe not as good as the Ghost but I am getting there... I did have a 10 and out during the game, so my ball pocketing in improving...
I think Steve is right...it is the curse of getting better that I have to spot now...

B

I don't know where you started but 10/7 is a lot of weight.
I know I give up a lot.

wgcp said:

I usually outmove my opponents... maybe not as good as the Ghost but I am getting there... I did have a 10 and out during the game, so my ball pocketing in improving...
I think Steve is right...it is the curse of getting better that I have to spot now...

B

Click to expand...

Yep, welcome to the club.

When you play bad the pool of players to choose from is huge, the better you get it starts to shrink.

Now it becomes learning to match up and coming up with different spots to get a game but when you win at those the amount of opponents becomes smaller and smaller and smaller.

If there were any easy answers we would all have been rich from playing pool.

Looks like you'll have to play in more tournaments if you like playing and be happy with the rare games that come up. I just know you have to be firm in the games you like or just become a cheap sucker and give up spots you can't win at.

You'll never lose a game you didn't play.

I don't play one pocket. Seems like I've heard that all my life. Think about it. Just find another place to play or get a spot from them in their game.

This is all great advice from people who gamble a lot more and FOR a lot more than I do, but here's what I do. I put my attitude in a place where I expect to play this guy day in and day out. I seldom actually do this but every thing I do today is based on that attitude. So I know that nothing is going to last forever least of all the spot. I do have standards, though. If I do give up a spot, I try to stick with that same spot all day even if I'm getting beat. That way your customer is shamed into doing the same thing instead of adjusting every game in later matches. Also, I approach the game trying not to have an ego about it. What I mean is, I'm taking mental notes of the outcome. If he beats me, he beats me and vice versa. I note that and have it as background info for the next time we match up. Sometimes I have given spots that seemed ridiculous just to see what happens. I have sometimes outrun the Brazilians doing this and it really makes you feel good. I suppose one way to put the attitude is don't be desperate to win. Want to win and try to win but it isn't the end of the world for you as a player if you lose. Although it will be the end of the money you lose.

One more thing, Keep pushing to go higher if you are losing. By that I mean, instead of say 10-7, make it 11-8 or 12-9. At some point, if you are better, this will make you a winner. The hard part is to go lower. In other words, its a lot easier for him to win if you gave him say 5-2 than 12-9.

wgcp said:

I usually outmove my opponents... maybe not as good as the Ghost but I am getting there... I did have a 10 and out during the game, so my ball pocketing in improving...
I think Steve is right...it is the curse of getting better that I have to spot now...

B

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Since you are braggin about what a great player you have become, my 9-7 for life stands, just not for $10 any longer. Bring a pocket full to play, each game.

Bill

Bill

Okay I will, course you have to beat Mitch to it...LOL

B

wgcp said:

Okay I will, course you have to beat Mitch to it...LOL

B

Click to expand...

I'll be using Mitchs money to play you.

Question for the sage's

wgcp said:

Okay I will, course you have to beat Mitch to it...LOL



B

Click to expand...

Scrzbill said:

I'll be using Mitchs money to play you.

Click to expand...

Ok. Since we're all making plans here regarding my money, here is mine...

First, I am going risk my money to (hopefully) take your money Bill.

Then, I am going to let it ride and look to bet 100 a game on Bille getting 9-7 from you.

After that, if I come out ahead, I'm sure I will lose it to LsJohn!! (He hasn't missed a shot since Lincoln was president.)

the bigger the edge you have to start, the longer you can milk the game. so those that play full tilt will soon run out of customers as even the most stupid will figure out your speed and not want to play. and when they do since they have no idea on how to make a game ask for too much spot.

so when this is happening its all your own fault.

in the future stall and win only the games given to you and the ones you cant lose let them have lots of shots. then you get all the lock action you want.

only play when you can identify your edge over them, and win so they thought they lost because of bad luck and not because you play too well for them.

making games is more important than how well you play if you want to win the money. if you just want to play your best speed you will find you only get games you cant win at.

it has been this way since pool was invented.

beatle

beatle

Very well explained...thanks

Bille