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  #11  
Old 05-11-2019, 05:07 PM
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BrookelandBilly BrookelandBilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vapros View Post
Whitey, I am beginning to wonder if the best shooters are seeing a contact spot at all. You indicated that you have been a shooter in the past - so what did you see when you were down on a shot? Can you recall? A ghost ball, maybe, or the triangle you mentioned?

At my age, I don't think I can start trying to develop a feel or an instinct for the shot. It will have to be the contact spot, and it is much easier to see when standing, because of the third dimension - depth. One of the best shooters I play with is a stand-up shooter. It always looks to me like an awkward way to do it. I think he sees the shot better, but he is a long way from his stick.

Thanks to everyone who is responding here.
Iíve read that certain players use an aiming point rather than a contact point. It must be more instinctive to use an aiming point and at the some time the contact point is more subliminal. I donít know if beginning or casual players can utilize an aiming point.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:55 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is online now
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Originally Posted by BrookelandBilly View Post
I donít know if beginning or casual players can utilize an aiming point.
I'm not qualified to have an opinion on straight shootin' but I'll give one anyway:

Aiming to a contact point is a complicated double calculation. Once you find the contact point, you still have to figure out what part of the CB you need to aim at it. But with enough hours on the table I think most people can quit worrying about that and the second adjustment just occurs automatically.

I think the ones who are really lucky make that automatic adjustment from the beginning.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:40 AM
lll lll is offline
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bill
first of all you dont know for sure if efren uses an aiming system or not.
he is not going to tell you
here shane describes what works for him
i am not advocating its right for you bill
but perhaps an aiming system as a guide might help
https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...f3&action=view
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:42 AM
lll lll is offline
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one more thought
since you say you have trouble seeing the contact point from behind the cue ball (is that correct?)
well when you are standing behind the cue ball and looking at the object ball can you tell if you hit the object ball THERE it will go towards the pocket?
can you tell how thick or thin a hit it looks like?
if so then just make the cue ball hit that spot or learn about fractional aiming
jmho
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2019, 10:05 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Larry, thanks so much for posting Shane's aiming system. For that is the very same shot I have been struggling with. I do not know why, for I easily make the same shot cross the short end rails.
I took it to the table and it works well. On 45 degrees use left edge of cue to edge of ball, 30 degrees use center of cue to edge of ball, and 15 degrees use right edge of cue to edge of ball. Great starting points. I also tried it on other shots out in the middle of the table, and it seemed to work well. I think it is a good system to at least check yourself to make sure your in the ball park, thus keeping you from totally missing the mark.
I once worked on my own aiming system for this shot, although it was basically the same as Shane's, I made it more complicated, so therefore to hard to remember.

I wonder when sending the ob 8ft. diagonally to the pocket and you miss the contact point by a 1/32" just how far off you would miss the pocket. 3"-4" or more probably, I do not know. 1/64 probably still misses the pocket. You probably have to stay within 1/128" to make it.

I wonder how Vapros is coming along, and whether any of the suggestions are helping. Just using certain english on certain shots seems to help in picking up the contact point. I notice MR. 400 uses a lot of outside english when back cutting and sending the ob a long distance down the long rail to the pocket. I've tried that also and I seem to pick up the contact point better. Thanks again, Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 05-12-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2019, 04:57 PM
vapros vapros is offline
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Okay, here we go. First of all, I am glad I started this discussion and I appreciate all the comments it has received, even the guy who said there is no aiming in pool. This topic has been worked over many times over many years, without much agreement between players.

I guess I have picked a poor time to do this. My bad right eye, which has been lying inactive for 75 years, has developed a big gray and fuzzy blind spot that is at the corner of my vision all the time. Signs of fatigue in the cornea says the doctor. Currently it is in a 30 day program of steroid drops that still has a week to go, but I will call tomorrow and ask if he will see me sooner. A real bummer.

I continue to scuffle with this. Going to my left might be a bit better, but going to my right is not so good. I am not the worst player in town but my game is all about Jojo, the white ball, and so I play one-pocket. In 9 ball Hillary Clinton gives me the breaks and the last 3.

I have seen just about all the systems. CJ Wiley divides each ball into 8 pieces (or is it 16?). There is Stan Shuffett and John Barton and a dozen others. Shane Van Boening admits to using a system that works off the edge of his ferrule but when the interviewer pressed him to demonstrate he stepped up and missed a cut shot that we know he makes 97% of the time. He noted that it was automatic for him now, after shooting the shot a thousand times. This is probably the key for most of us, but not all. Some guys come by it naturally.

All the aiming systems have one thing in common. To make the shot you must find the contact point on the object ball and the contact point on the cue ball and then drive them together. There are different ways to do it. The CP on the OB is right there, easy to see, but the one on Jojo is out of sight and you have to do it in your mind, and therein lies the rub. If you get it wrong you miss, and sometimes I do. My best effort is to do my aiming while I am standing. Set my feet and put my stick right along the line of the shot and then go straight down and hit it. One or two practice strokes, and I am on the way. More and more I am looking right at the cue ball when I shoot. It saves me from seeing a shot picture that doesn't look quite right.

I will scuffle on. Don't stop now - I will be glad to hear what you are thinking.
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:31 PM
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sappo sappo is offline
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Bill, I believe that the great ball pocketers DO NOT use any aiming system. First they are gifted, they have wonderful strokes that allow them to deliver the cueball exactly where they are aiming. Add to that they have played and practiced hitting/pocketing balls over and over again the point that their sub conscience mind knows exactly where to aim. You don't think these great players are thinking what the angle a shot is and then calculate where their cue tip edge should be aimed? No way, they feel the shot without thinking where they should be aiming they just know where they should aim and that perfect stroke delivers the cueball to the spot that make the ball.


Now Im not saying that systems don't work, Im just saying the greats don't use them. Keith

Last edited by sappo; 05-12-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:39 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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that video shows how shane knows nothing about aiming he just does it naturally and that is why he shoots well. innate ability and letting his natural stoke take over and not fussing with things.
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vapros View Post
...
... My bad right eye, which has been lying inactive for 75 years, has developed a big gray and fuzzy blind spot that is at the corner of my vision all the time. Signs of fatigue in the cornea says the doctor. Currently it is in a 30 day program of steroid drops that still has a week to go, but I will call tomorrow and ask if he will see me sooner. A real bummer.
...
Bill, if you haven't already, I'd recommend getting the opinion of a corneal specialist. I see one in Covington, LA (Satya Reddy), but there likely is one in BR as well. These guys are experts in corneal matters. Regular ophthalmologists see a huge variety of eye conditions, and are not particularly specialists in the cornea.

~Doc
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:32 PM
vapros vapros is offline
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Thanks, Doc. My guy is Dr. Michael Morgan, and he is the top man at the Ochsner Clinic here. I'm quite sure there is a corneal specialist on the staff - I'm thinking maybe Dr. Creed - and I have confidence in both. I'll keep you posted.
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