Go Back   OnePocket.org Forums > Bank Pool Forum
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:08 PM
hankh hankh is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Arrey, N.M.
Posts: 281
Default

lll,Howdy;

Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
possible reason for missing short
when you go thru diamonds on the 2:1 ratio you actually hit the rail before the nose point in front of the diamond
this tends to make the bank go 1/4 diamond short.
if you hit the nose of the rail in front of the diamond you should make the bank
these are natural type banks
Attachment 24127
I'd thought about this and was keeping to the point of the rail in front of the
diamond while using a centerball hit at medium speed. See above for my
reply to Whitey. I can see if what you suggest helps any and will consolidate
in next posting.
Thanks very much for you thoughts.

Ps. Also remember I'm working on a Valley Bar box made in the early 80's and
was last recovered 10 years ago or so ...

hank
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

Last edited by hankh; 03-13-2019 at 11:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:03 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 995
Default

Hank & Larry;
I am only advocating that shooting the cb from the 2nd diamond side rail going through the 1st diamond opposite side rail will hit the jaw face of cushion inside the pocket of the side rail. But elsewhere as Larry diagramed, I am not advocating that, for the angle opens up and it hits the center of the pocket by splitting the diamonds and shooting through them. At least on my table.
This pertains to shooting the cb ball only, when banking the ob I would aim slightly past the split diamond, or face of diamond.

I measured the distanced between diamonds, on my table it is 14 inches. And 14 inches from the 1st diamond to the corner pocket is not in the center of the pocket but to the jaw face of the side rail. I assume the diamond lay out would be the same on other tables.

Larry, I am not sure if you made your diagram off of what you thought I said, or how some tables play. If there was some confusion, I am making it clearer on my part. I do not know how other tables play.

Hank, I almost put Valley 8ft. bar box in my previous statement as being notorious for putting on that counterworking spin on the balls, that makes the ob come up short. Those tables are hard for me to adjust to, for the ob spins when banking and comes short. I believe this is why you are coming up short. on that table you might have to cut it more plus use a tip more of natural english to make the ob. Speed on banks can be very critical on Valley's.

You can do those cross over side pocket cross side banks, where you 1 rail bank past the side pocket and it reverses back and comes backwards across side.

This phenomena of ob spinning short of the pocket does not happen on my table.
I hope this clears up some possible misconceptions. Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-14-2019 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:36 AM
hankh hankh is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Arrey, N.M.
Posts: 281
Default

Whitey, Howdy;

Thanks for the clarification, It helps.

The Valley in question is a 7 footer and your comment " You can do those cross
over side pocket cross side banks, where you 1 rail bank past the side pocket
and it reverses back and goes back across side. " is one of the most frustrating
things about trying to figure this out with the equipment at hand. But, I figure
if I can learn on this one then it should be easy to adjust to other tables.

Continued appreciation form my end.

hank
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:36 AM
lll lll is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: vero beach fl
Posts: 14,272
Default

please ignore the billiard shown its the table i want to represent
whitey this is for you and not to confuse hank
my response to hank was not in reference to your post but here is alitlle nerdy kind of stuff that i think you will appreciate.
on a billiard table there are 2 diamonds to represent the corner diamond on the end rail and the side rail respectively
the true corner actually is represented by 2 diamonds close together
the pic below is a billiard table with my yellow lines to represent the "facings" of a pocket... the back of the pocket is where the 2 close together diamonds would be.
most pool players use that as the corner diamond and for most purposes its close enough
but its not the true corner diamond
why do i bring this up
when you shoot thru diamonds the ball goes to(not across from) the diamonds
when you are at the 2nd diamond and shoot thru the 1st diamond
you can see the corner diamond is in the imaginary facing i drew
from a wider angle going towards that diamond would hit the rail ie short of the pocket
thats how i understand it
icbw
Name:  billiard table diamond with pocket lines.jpg
Views: 39
Size:  40.7 KB
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:23 PM
hankh hankh is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Arrey, N.M.
Posts: 281
Default

lll, Howdy;

Not to worry about confusing me, already there. That's why I was asking for
some help figuring out the Banking bidness.

In Freddy's book he uses the 2 dots at the pocket sides in all the diagrams and
it fits with what Whitey was referring to when he said this, " I measured the
distanced between diamonds, on my table it is 14 inches. And 14 inches from
the 1st diamond to the corner pocket is not in the center of the pocket but to
the jaw face of the side rail. I assume the diamond lay out would be the same
on other tables. ". It would also fit with the 1 tip of Right English for the shot
being discussed or your 1 piece of chalk past the spot on the cushion. All stuff I
can look at and check-out in a little while.

Thank you both for your help, this is a fun project.

hank
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:28 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 995
Default

Larry,
The illustration, represents what I was trying to portray in words, in that equal distance measurement between diamonds, puts an imaginary diamond on the jaw face of the side rail, corner pocket.

I have not seen a billiard table with diamonds like that by the corners. Of course I haven't played on or seen a billiard table since '69.

In kicking the cb I can only speak how my table reacts, not others.

When my rails were faster, I would put the cb in the center of the corner pocket and to do a long rail kick shot into the opposite corner, I would hit past (like nearly a full ball) the center diamond on head rail to go directly into the center of the pocket. Now that the rails are slower I hit on the center diamond, for now the angle widens out more. But, the diamond systems used back in those days, it worked to perfection.

On a 3 rail kick from corner to opposite corner, I would aim through the 2nd far diamond side rail, cb came off 3rd diamond opposite side rail, and directly into center of hole. The diamond system was 5-2 is 3 and the 3rd diamond lined up for the corner pocket, or 2+3=5 and 5 is the corner pocket. Or 5-1=4 which is the side pocket. Or 6-1=5 which is 5 rails into the corner pocket, and so forth. 5 being the corner pocket and/or 5th diamond, 6 first diamond end rail. 7 the center diamond end rail - 2nd diamond far side rail =5, the two rail kick shot into the corner! All kicks using a little running english.

Billiard's table diamond system played one diamond shorter than the pool tables, on a 3 rail corner to corner kick shot. Now days, it is about a 1/2 diamond, maybe 1 diamond shorter on some tables.

I believe the diamond system was first contrived by Phelan.
Thanks, Larry

I wanted to add this since we have Hank on the line here, and he has researched dvd's & books on banks. Back decades ago, when I was doing banks as a daily practice, I had diagramed up all the ob banks from 1 rail on up to 7 rail banks. It takes a very fast table to do a 7 rail bank. Hank or anyone, has anyone ever diagramed up a 7 rail ob bank, that you know of. thanks, Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-14-2019 at 02:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:57 PM
lll lll is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: vero beach fl
Posts: 14,272
Default

whitey we are in agreement.....
when you aimed a ball past the center diamond it was as i was trying to explain in my prior diagram about
when you aim at the diamond you hit the rail before the diamond
when you aim past the diamond you can hit the rail nose in front of the diamond
hank you dont need to pay attention to any of this....
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:07 PM
lll lll is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: vero beach fl
Posts: 14,272
Default

whitey
here is a pic of a real billiard table with the corner diamonds marked
Name:  billiard corner diamonds pic.jpg
Views: 55
Size:  7.6 KB
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:03 PM
mr3cushion's Avatar
mr3cushion mr3cushion is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
Posts: 5,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
whitey
here is a pic of a real billiard table with the corner diamonds marked
Attachment 24129
Larry, here;s the correct Q ball number locations for the diamond system on a 3C table

Attachment 24130

Last edited by mr3cushion; 05-23-2019 at 03:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:31 PM
hankh hankh is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Arrey, N.M.
Posts: 281
Default

Whitey & Larry, Howdy;

What planet are y'all from sez me running for the door

hank
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All original content Copyright Onepocket.org and/or the original author. All rights reserved.