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Old 01-31-2006, 01:20 AM
onepocketrocket onepocketrocket is offline
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Default great but not great

Just thinking is there any great one pocket players that move great but shoot about a b or c level (9-bal). What im saying a one-pocket player that can beat pro by out moving him but not out shooting him?
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:45 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onepocketrocket
Just thinking is there any great one pocket players that move great but shoot about a b or c level (9-bal). What im saying a one-pocket player that can beat pro by out moving him but not out shooting him?
I've read stories of top 1P players who can lock a guy up so badly with crushing safeties that his opponent folds up and loses. However I'm sure those expert safety players are also good ball runners as well. Offhand I can't think of a top 1P player who isn't also a good shot-maker.

Sooner or later good players take a tricky shot which, if made, will either win them the game or get them a lot of balls; but if it's missed, will sell out big time. The best players make those shots. The younger good players today play so aggressively that you can't simply try to lock them up the whole game. Sooner or later you've got to shoot and run balls to beat them.

Doc
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:32 PM
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jrhendy jrhendy is offline
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Default Old Time One Pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfportdoc
I've read stories of top 1P players who can lock a guy up so badly with crushing safeties that his opponent folds up and loses. However I'm sure those expert safety players are also good ball runners as well. Offhand I can't think of a top 1P player who isn't also a good shot-maker.

Sooner or later good players take a tricky shot which, if made, will either win them the game or get them a lot of balls; but if it's missed, will sell out big time. The best players make those shots. The younger good players today play so aggressively that you can't simply try to lock them up the whole game. Sooner or later you've got to shoot and run balls to beat them.

Doc
The game has changed quite a bit from the old days. While better equipment (tables/cues/balls) have something to do with it, the good players are so much more aggressive than they used to be. Ronnie Allen started it in the 60's, but there just were not that many like him for a long time. Ronnie's old friend and sometimes stake horse, Buck Barrett from Oklahoma, was a pretty fair player in his own right, and he wouldn't run more than three or four balls with a gun to his head. He had a Rambo cue that was all taped up & looked like a junker, but he could beat you without looking flashy, and he never played anyone who was considered a player. Who knows how many of these guys were around. They just made money without drawing much attention. The young guns now are liable to run eight & out at any time. Their shot making ability/imagination & cue ball control give them a chance to win the game every time they come to the table. The down side of this style is you can't hide your game, but look at the weight these top players give up. I can play a little one pocket when I put the time in and I probably wouldn't win 10/6 and the breaks from Efren. A friend of mine who plays my speed lost at that game. I could probably get 9/7 and the breaks from Tony Chohan or Amar in Sacramento, but I'm not going to wear out my tires driving down their looking for that game. They just run too many balls. Give me an old mover and I can hang in there. I can still beat most of them to the first shot, but once this new generation see you can't do much with it, look out, they are firing at their hole more than ever. I agree that the great players can play safe and come with the shot and then run balls when they need to. Nick Varner is one of those players you mentioned who played crushing safeties, but he could run the balls when it was time. I never got to see Artie Bergendorfer play, but heard he broke you down. There are just so many good one pocket players now, and it is great to see, but Efren is still way ahead of the pack.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:54 PM
Lunchmoney Lunchmoney is offline
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"I can play a little one pocket when I put the time in and I probably wouldn't win 10/6 and the breaks from Efren. A friend of mine who plays my speed lost at that game."

John,

Your friend wouldn't be Dan F. would it? Used to live in Arizona and now resides in Washington State.


Lunchmoney
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:25 PM
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Default 10/6 & break

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Originally Posted by Lunchmoney
"I can play a little one pocket when I put the time in and I probably wouldn't win 10/6 and the breaks from Efren. A friend of mine who plays my speed lost at that game."

John,

Your friend wouldn't be Dan F. would it? Used to live in Arizona and now resides in Washington State.


Lunchmoney
Yes it would be. Haven't seen him for a while.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:37 AM
Lunchmoney Lunchmoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhendy
Yes it would be. Haven't seen him for a while.

Dan lives in Mount Vernon WA now. Plays at the same pool hall I do. He comes into practice nearly everyday. He speaks very highly of you and told me about the time he played Efren.


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Old 02-01-2006, 02:23 PM
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Default Dan In Mount Vernon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchmoney
Dan lives in Mount Vernon WA now. Plays at the same pool hall I do. He comes into practice nearly everyday. He speaks very highly of you and told me about the time he played Efren.


Lunchmoney
I knew he was up in Washington somewhere. I was in that room years ago & if I remember right, it has Gandy tables & is a nice room. Dan was always a little more careful with the money & matching up than I was, although he would go in with me playing just about anybody (C.J. Wiley one time). We have done a few cue deals & looking back, he might have outsmarted me there too. Say hello for me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:30 PM
Wayne Wayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onepocketrocket
Just thinking is there any great one pocket players that move great but shoot about a b or c level (9-bal). What im saying a one-pocket player that can beat pro by out moving him but not out shooting him?
The closest to what you are saying is probably Richard Grenier "Connecticut Rich" from Los Angeles but he still would be rated a level in 9 ball but not pro level, he is just a much better mover than shooter (he might be one of the best movers in the world). Efren gives him 9-6 but he usually ties Efren up in knots and I believe he has won this game the last few times they have played and Efren doesn't like it. He finished 5-6 the last one-pocket open in Vegas, he was done 3 games to 0 against Tang Hoa and won 4 straight, then he tied James Walden up in knots and sent him to the loser side, he had Scott Frost talking to himself but Scott ended up sending him to the loser side in a tough match. He is capable of beating any of the pro 9 ball players in one-pocket but has little chance against them in 9 ball.

Wayne
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:44 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Default Beat Efren?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
Efren gives him 9-6 but he usually ties Efren up in knots and I believe he has won this game the last few times they have played and Efren doesn't like it.
He beat EFREN?! Even with a spot, wouldn't this qualify him for HOF consideration?

Doc
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:08 PM
Lunchmoney Lunchmoney is offline
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Default I'll say hello

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhendy
I knew he was up in Washington somewhere. I was in that room years ago & if I remember right, it has Gandy tables & is a nice room. Dan was always a little more careful with the money & matching up than I was, although he would go in with me playing just about anybody (C.J. Wiley one time). We have done a few cue deals & looking back, he might have outsmarted me there too. Say hello for me.
I'll tell Dan hello from you. The room you speak of with the Gandy's shut down a few years back. A new room opened up here called Riverside Billiards and Blues. That's where we play. Dan is still doing cue deals every now and then.

Lunchmoney
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