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  #21  
Old 08-17-2019, 09:33 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Well Steve, can we have a poll on the most popular options?

Ball on the break...Ball stays down and shooter continues his inning.
This regardless of who racked the balls. (My favorite)

Ball on the break. Ball spots, incoming player shoots.
(Why the need to spot the ball?) (At least give the shooter credit for making the damn thing)

Ball on the break, Ball stays down, opponent shoots. (My second choice)

Ball on break, Re-rack. Scratch on second break, Re-rack again...Stuck with outcome regardless of what happens.

Any other suggestions?

I vote for option #1

Tom
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2019, 09:40 PM
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androd androd is offline
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The way I play is like you mentioned, if they want to rerack, then no foul if you scratch on the rebrake.

If you make one and sit down, you'll find most brakes, when a ball goes leaves a gold mine for the opposite pocket.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
Well Steve, can we have a poll on the most popular options?

Ball on the break...Ball stays down and shooter continues his inning.
This regardless of who racked the balls. (My favorite)


Ball on the break. Ball spots, incoming player shoots.
(Why the need to spot the ball?) (At least give the shooter credit for making the damn thing)

Ball on the break, Ball stays down, opponent shoots. (My second choice)

Ball on break, Re-rack. Scratch on second break, Re-rack again...Stuck with outcome regardless of what happens.

Any other suggestions?

I vote for option #1

Tom
i'd vote for option #1 as well.....jmho

i've never understood why you penalize a guy for laying down a good one. (actually, a better one/or at least just as good is hanging it up....jmho). it's not like an opponent can't inspect a rack before the break....

(saw a spirited discussion between busty and harriman several yrs back at DCC re the way one was racking...i think it was more gamesmanship than anything...)

i've also always liked that if a player wants to lag, then that's what you do instead of flipping. my way of thinking is if you don't want your opponent to get the first break, then lay down a better lag than him...

if steve puts up a poll, i'm sure we could give members their collective/voted upon option in memphis….
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  #24  
Old 08-18-2019, 10:30 AM
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Jimmy Rule gets my vote too. I hate reracks
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  #25  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:19 AM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androd View Post
The way I play is like you mentioned, if they want to rerack, then no foul if you scratch on the rebrake.

If you make one and sit down, you'll find most brakes, when a ball goes leaves a gold mine for the opposite pocket.
Rod,

I normally agree with your thoughts and ideas. I have to admit here that I don't understand why what you are saying here would be true? If one makes a ball on the break or one hangs a ball (near) the pocket, there can't be much of a difference as to what is available to the opponent, and surely can't be predictable, I don't think.


Tom,

First, we must be considering a rule for tournaments only, as private matches can be negotiated to be anything the two players desire, as we all know.

IN tournament situations, if it is a race to four, where the breaks are divided evenly, there is no issue. So, we are talking only about tournaments where there is a race to a odd number, which we could simply eliminate.

There is NO inherent advantage to "racking your own". Each player racks the same number of times, in all cases the opponent has the right to inspect the rack, so nothing to gain there.

My first option, if we must make a rule would be to ban "rack your own" in OP tournament play (no further issue).

If we must accommodate this "racking your own" for some unknown reason, I would vote for the breaker having to break and sit down, no matter what happens (if he makes a ball he keeps it). This is the simplest solution; anything else just further complicates the game, a game known for it's simplicity and subtleness, and ease of understanding, unnecessarily.

Should there be a modicum of truth to what Rod says, then the made ball works to offset the "goldmine". No matter the rule, discerning thoughtful OP players will ferret out the odds to take advantage of having the break. It could be that they will attempt to avoid making a ball in favor of positioning balls instead, which is done routinely throughout the game anyway.

I think we must keep in mind that we are trying to reduce the unfair advantage of having a majority of breaks in some tournaments, nothing more.

TD's should have pushed back at this "rack your own" movement immediately, that was born out of some frustrated player thinking that he was being cheated, or believing he could gain some advantage if he could actually touch the balls before he broke. This is a relatively new development that has caused lots of consternation and no good.
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Last edited by darmoose; 08-18-2019 at 11:32 AM. Reason: error
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  #26  
Old 08-18-2019, 12:08 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post

if it is a race to four, where the breaks are divided evenly, there is no issue. So, we are talking only about tournaments where there is a race to a odd number, which we could simply eliminate.
I'm with you except on this point. When someone wins by one game, there can't be an equal number of breaks, whatever the number of games in a race. Round Robin makes equal breaks if the sets are even number.
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2019, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
Rod,

I normally agree withcomes out for a shot your thoughts and ideas. I have to admit here that I don't understand why what you are saying here would be true? If one makes a ball on the break or one hangs a ball (near) the pocket, there can't be much of a difference as to what is available to the opponent, and surely can't be predictable, I don't think.
Darrel you may be correct, I've played a lot of it, my favorite way to play.
Often the ball going in, not hanging frees up bank options, also the corner ball
often comes out for a shot, I noticed when a ball is made the CB rarely
comes to the second diamond. Just what I've noticed, or think I've noticed
(getting a little weary) Still play 3/4 hours 6 days a week.
P.S. I'm usually giving weight, so if they make a ball I don't mind.
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Last edited by androd; 08-18-2019 at 02:11 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2019, 01:13 PM
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In any match - regardless of the number of games - if it goes hill-hill the player who broke first gets the last break. His edge.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2019, 01:34 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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At the 2019 MOT players meeting in Philly was this even brought up. If so what break rules did the players decide to play by?
It never came up in the 2018 MOT, but we did rack our own! Whitey
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2019, 02:10 PM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSJohn View Post
I'm with you except on this point. When someone wins by one game, there can't be an equal number of breaks, whatever the number of games in a race. Round Robin makes equal breaks if the sets are even number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vapros View Post
In any match - regardless of the number of games - if it goes hill-hill the player who broke first gets the last break. His edge.
You guys are correct, my bad. I was thinking of a RR I guess. But, everything else I said is gospel.
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