Non Bank-Pool Player's Dilemma

[Cowboy Dennis]

The score is 3 to 3. Now what?

Beard

Now this:http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/sto...eyes+%28DVD%29

I'm off to work now and it's only 101 degrees. I can't go through this game shot by shot Fred.

Everyone have fun while I slave away in this heat.

Dennis

[gulfportdoc]

Fred, good points about making the 6 ball, which clears out the blocker ball to the others. Also your comments are valid about the situation being in reverse, since he's behind 2-3.

What's interesting here is that all four balls bank. The 6 is probably the better shot because it can flatten out and go straight back into the pocket very nicely. The 8 is probably the safer shot, but then the player is going to try to get three.

As it happened, Hennessee made a nice shot on the 6, but he either let the CB loose, or he purposely played safe. I imagine that the shot should be played with low english to keep the CB from rolling too far up table, so as to get a shot cross side on the 8 ball. Now he's in a dilemma, and is probably going to have to play safe. Pinegar is a good banker. He may have taken a swing at the 8 ball.

Doc

[fred bentivegna]

Fred, good points about making the 6 ball, which clears out the blocker ball to the others. Also your comments are valid about the situation being in reverse, since he's behind 2-3.

What's interesting here is that all four balls bank. The 6 is probably the better shot because it can flatten out and go straight back into the pocket very nicely. The 8 is probably the safer shot, but then the player is going to try to get three.

As it happened, Hennessee made a nice shot on the 6, but he either let the CB loose, or he purposely played safe. I imagine that the shot should be played with low english to keep the CB from rolling too far up table, so as to get a shot cross side on the 8 ball. Now he's in a dilemma, and is probably going to have to play safe. Pinegar is a good banker. He may have taken a swing at the 8 ball.

Doc

Finally, some good thinking. Now your mind is going to the right places, Doc. With the score tied and you in the better position -- that is being able to for sure, execute a strong safe -- no need to gamble here. Playing safe off of the 8 ball after banking the 6 would be an excellent choice. The safe will be extra strong because he will try, and should be able to, put the 8 ball among the other 2 balls close to the foot rail and with the cue ball hopefully, back on the end rail -- 9 ft away -- leaving a tough return shot.

In the end game I encourage my opponent to try and win from the end rail.
Me, I prefer to roll in a cross side under pressure.

Another way to look at shot choices is to think about what you want your opponent to shoot or not shoot. Me, I am hoping he would go for the 8 ball cut straight back. He would be going for the win then of course, and that's the down side, because he would be leaving the cue ball close to the other 2 balls and should have another shot.
However, if he misses I will be the recipient of the easy shot. If he makes the 8, God bless him. What I dont want is for him to play a powerful safe off of the 8 and leave me on the end joint 9 feet away with no easy option.

Beard

Incidentally, it has been my experience that only a few top thinking bankers would play safe here. Pinegar probably shot at something. For another example, Piggy Banks would shoot at the 8, and my guy, Jet Johnson would play the lock-up safety. Maybe that's why Jet's batting average in big money matches was so high.

[gulfportdoc]

My first choice was to play safe off the 8 ball, as you have illustrated. But if the shooter can thin over-cut the 1-ball to the left, bringing whitey up to the center head rail, while rolling the 1-ball into line with the 8 and 4, then he'd put the opponent into a good trap.

If he really wanted to be nasty, he could simply cut the 1-ball into the pocket, leaving whitey in the same place as above. That might even be better. ~Doc

[fred bentivegna]

My first choice was to play safe off the 8 ball, as you have illustrated. But if the shooter can thin over-cut the 1-ball to the left, bringing whitey up to the center head rail, while rolling the 1-ball into line with the 8 and 4, then he'd put the opponent into a good trap.

If he really wanted to be nasty, he could simply cut the 1-ball into the pocket, leaving whitey in the same place as above. That might even be better. ~Doc

2nd and 3rd choices, no good. Dont overthink it. I have to go somewhere. Will explain later.

Beard

[androd]

Why not just bank the 1 ball ?
Rod.

[fred bentivegna]

Why not just bank the 1 ball ?
Rod.

The 1 aint laying not quite wonderful. If you make it, you probably win. If you miss it you probably lose. In pressure situations I prefer to shoot at hangers and let the other guy take all the risks.

Beard

[ChrisBanks]

I know Freddy said not to pocket the 1-ball.

But it would put two balls on the spot, and force your opponent to break them up.

The advantage of going off the 8 is that speed is a little easier because you will be going 2 or 3 rails. But the 1-ball is laying so naturally you should have pretty good speed with that too.

[fred bentivegna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfportdoc
My first choice was to play safe off the 8 ball, as you have illustrated. But if the shooter can thin over-cut the 1-ball to the left, bringing whitey up to the center head rail, while rolling the 1-ball into line with the 8 and 4, then he'd put the opponent into a good trap.

If he really wanted to be nasty, he could simply cut the 1-ball into the pocket, leaving whitey in the same place as above. That might even be better. ~Doc

2nd and 3rd choices, no good. Dont overthink it. I have to go somewhere. Will explain later.

Beard

Those 2 safeties, while you dont leave a shot, are easily answered. Two of the balls are going to be 2 diamonds off of the foot rail. The power of the 8 ball safety is that you put all three balls near the rail and the furthest distance away from the q ball. If he tries to play safe off of one of those balls and doesnt get you real close to the rail --which wont be easy -- you should have a relatively free shot at one of them, with the other balls being left close to the foot rail as protection if you miss.


In otherwords the idea is to leave all 3 balls close to the foot rail and maximum distance away from the cue ball which should be close to or frozen to the rail. The distance you are from the 8 ball (you are relatively close) should make it easy to hit the safe strongly.

[Banks]

Shooting the 6 which is the main "blocker" ball to the other balls, completely opens up the table for the other 3 balls. The exact reason why you wouldnt want to do it when you were ahead. You dont want to open the table up when you have a lead.

I thought the idea was that you put more pressure on your opponent with an open table when you have the lead.

[fred bentivegna]

I thought the idea was that you put more pressure on your opponent with an open table when you have the lead.

I am starting to get the feeling that you are maybe the only banker in Oregon. Where could you have possibly heard that? If I need 2 or 1, why would I want the table to be able to yield 3 or 4?

Anyone playing me when I have the lead is looking at a table with 3 or 4 blocked pockets and the rest of the balls in clusters on one side of the table and near the rails.

Beard

[Banks]

I am starting to get the feeling that you are maybe the only banker in Oregon. Where could you have possibly heard that? If I need 2 or 1, why would I want the table to be able to yield 3 or 4?

Anyone playing me when I have the lead is looking at a table with 3 or 4 blocked pockets and the rest of the balls in clusters on one side of the table and near the rails.

Beard

I could very well be the only banker(or, rather, hopeful banker) in Oregon. I'm certain that you had said that exact thing. I will try to find it. Something about putting immense pressure on an opponent when you only need 1 or 2 and they still need most, with a miss all but guaranteeing you a shot at a bank.. at the same time, locking up all of the balls when needing the same(1 or 2 vs. many) gives the opponent a greater chance, since you are also shooting at a select shot(or few) that are available. Again, I'll try to dig around and see what I can find.

After a brief search..
I couldn't find what I thought that I was looking for, though I did find a reference or two to this kind of strategy, so I must have been mistaken.

[fred bentivegna]

I could very well be the only banker(or, rather, hopeful banker) in Oregon. I'm certain that you had said that exact thing. I will try to find it. Something about putting immense pressure on an opponent when you only need 1 or 2 and they still need most, with a miss all but guaranteeing you a shot at a bank.. at the same time, locking up all of the balls when needing the same(1 or 2 vs. many) gives the opponent a greater chance, since you are also shooting at a select shot(or few) that are available. Again, I'll try to dig around and see what I can find.

After a brief search..
I couldn't find what I thought that I was looking for, though I did find a reference or two to this kind of strategy, so I must have been mistaken.

You are right in a way. I did say something remotely along those lines -- as an exception to a certain situation. I will look for the exact lesson I put together re it a while back. i will dig it out and repost it.

HOWEVER, at no point have I ever, ever, espoused allowing enough balls open on a table that would allow my opponent to win the game on one shot.

The exception you refer to is a special circumstance in a special situation.

Beard

[Cowboy Dennis]

I will look for the exact lesson I put together re it a while back. i will dig it out and repost it.

Beard

Yeah, he'll "dig it out & repost it", right after he "digs out Jimmy Hoffa".

You old dudes couldn't "search & find" the Grand F@@king Canyon".

Maybe Christy Canyon though:

[fred bentivegna]

Found it!

Here it is. It is from my website, and the free bank lessons page.

KEY POINT
Do not take all the balls out of play — a fatal mistake that I myself made for years — my rationale was, “If one ball out of play is good, then three or four is better still.” A flawed conclusion it turns out.
If you and your opponent are both playing one ball at a time, you remove much of the pressure from your opponent. All the opposition has to do is play safe on one ball.
If there are several balls in play, even though they might present an opportunity for your opponent to make them in one inning, it also makes it many times more difficult for the opposition to play safe when you only need one ball. One ball could be made from anywhere. Your foe will be under extreme pressure trying to keep you from shooting at 2-rail or 3-rail banks that will win the game. Paranoia will have your competition seeing banks going in from everywhere.
Your opponent knows that any ball you are left close to, regardless of the angle, is a possible make. With one ball in play on the table, if the other player keeps leaving you long with the Cue Ball near the cushion, the pressure between the two of you would be about the same. Maybe less for him because he is behind and has nothing to lose. But when he looks at the table and negatively visualizes that he cannot leave you without a shot, and that he has to leave you something to shoot at, the pressure becomes greater on him than you.

Always remember tho. When you need 1, you must still keep at least 1 ball completely out of play in order to keep your opponent from winning the game on one shot.

Beard

So Banks, you must at least have visited my website.