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Science Schmience: CB Follow/Draw for Banks

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  • #16
    Originally posted by LSJohn View Post
    Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

    Interesting video. Thanks
    Nice question. It's hard to make that shot without a bunch of draw...no? JB
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    • #17
      Originally posted by LSJohn View Post
      Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

      Interesting video. Thanks
      Yep. Many frozen caroms are forced forward with draw. Unfrozen the first ball can be made to draw a little with high or middle ball.
      Rod.
      Last edited by androd; 10-06-2014, 11:26 AM.
      Rod.

      Rodney Stephens.
      (e-mail) rod.stephens0105@att.net(e-mail) #713-973-0503 is now working

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      • #18
        You guys stop, you're going to confuse him.

        That frozen spot shot was the first thing I thought of on this thread. The second was the amount of action you get when you use draw on an eight or nine ball break (ditto force follow, but that's a different story).
        "If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."---unknown

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        • #19
          you use low on breaks to hold the cue ball. not for speed. it will actually slow you down some. best for speed(power) on your break in nine ball is center ball or a tiny bit of high.

          a big thanks to john b. for starting all of this discussion as its something for all of us to think about.

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          • #20
            LSJohn:
            Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

            Interesting video. Thanks
            Nice question. It's hard to make that shot without a bunch of draw...no? JB
            That is a good question - I expected to see it.

            Yes, some follow is transferred to the OB for that shot. And since the first OB is momentarily trapped between the CB and the second OB (like a bank with the OB frozen to the rail), more than the usual amount of follow is transferred - but still not more than "natural rolling" follow. I don't believe that draw on the CB, even in the most advantageous cases like this, can ever transfer enough follow to the OB to equal rolling follow.

            Also, it's not commonly known, but the OB is forced forward quite a bit in that shot even without draw on the CB - I'm told (by people who should know, like Bob Jewett, Ron Shepard and Dr. Dave) that it can theoretically be made without any transferred follow if it's hit at just the right angle (aimed at a point 1/10 of the way from the end rail center diamond to the corner pocket). I've never been able to make it that way, but I believe these guys, especially when they all agree.

            pj
            chgo

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
              That is a good question - I expected to see it.

              Yes, some follow is transferred to the OB for that shot. And since the first OB is momentarily trapped between the CB and the second OB (like a bank with the OB frozen to the rail), more than the usual amount of follow is transferred - but still not more than "natural rolling" follow. I don't believe that draw on the CB, even in the most advantageous cases like this, can ever transfer enough follow to the OB to equal rolling follow.

              Also, it's not commonly known, but the OB is forced forward quite a bit in that shot even without draw on the CB - I'm told (by people who should know, like Bob Jewett, Ron Shepard and Dr. Dave) that it can theoretically be made without any transferred follow if it's hit at just the right angle (aimed at a point 1/10 of the way from the end rail center diamond to the corner pocket). I've never been able to make it that way, but I believe these guys, especially when they all agree.

              pj
              chgo
              I find I usually agree with you and appreciate the way you try to analyze this stuff even when I don't (or, more often, can't decide.) I also get some guilty pleasure at your expense for some of the cracks sent your way by the weisenheimers.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by LSJohn View Post
                I find I usually agree with you and appreciate the way you try to analyze this stuff even when I don't (or, more often, can't decide.) I also get some guilty pleasure at your expense for some of the cracks sent your way by the weisenheimers.
                I enjoy a good weisenheimer crack too, even at my expense.

                pj
                chgo

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                • #23
                  Back to original query about banks with draw running long. My take is this - when we bankers crank these banks, the cushion compresses quite a bit. When it does, the ball comes barreling out of there at angle that typically produces SLIDE. What this means is that the cue ball arcs a bit. The transferred high English affects this arc and can make banks run long, particularly long rail banks that have have the opportunity to slide and arc the entire nine feet.

                  John Brumbeck is a proponent of this observation.

                  I am sort of in your camp, Patrick - a lot of great bankers insist this phenomenon exists, but it seems like it may not be as pronounced as some claim. I would be surprised if we could get video evidence of it on a short rail bank. On a long rail bank, there is much more room to see the effect as the ball slips and slides against 9' of cloth.

                  And responsive to an earlier question you had, yes, it matters how far away the object ball is from the cushion because transferred English dissipates as it fights against the cloth. In reading Beard's book, you will notice he tells you how to make certain banks "if they are within 4" of the rail.". This is why.

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                  • #24
                    I summed up my thoughts over in the banking section JB
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mkbtank View Post
                      lol. No slings or arrows intended here PJ. Questioning should always be ok.
                      Especially if the source is AZ or I should say absolutely if the source is AZ.
                      Coyotes, Eagles, and Deer, oh my!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
                        Yes, to question the Kentucky King and His Beard is madness... yet there is method in 't.

                        pj <- Googled it
                        chgo
                        Just because they named a state after me,
                        I have never claimed to be the King of Kentucky.
                        Coyotes, Eagles, and Deer, oh my!

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                        • #27
                          The more I learn about banking the more I believe that there is only one proper way to play each bank.

                          You can shoot them other ways but they don't go in as often.

                          I'm only talking about making them --> Not when playing moves/safe shots.


                          Dudley

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dudley View Post
                            The more I learn about banking the more I believe that there is only one proper way to play each bank.

                            You can shoot them other ways but they don't go in as often.

                            I'm only talking about making them --> Not when playing moves/safe shots.


                            Dudley
                            care to share you revelation

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lll View Post
                              care to share you revelation
                              Larry,the highlighted part should be in the bank forum.This is the onepocket JB
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                              Click here to order JB shirts

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lll View Post
                                care to share you revelation
                                I don't really have any revelations. .

                                I would try to explain than showcase how little I actually know.

                                I'll leave explanations to the experts.

                                Dud

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