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Managing One Pocket tournament time --DCC edition

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  • #91
    No Buy Back

    Like Cincy said, make it a true dbl elim event. $200 entry per division. Times could then be posted waaaaay ahead of time.
    Bill Meacham
    WBT
    www.worldbilliardtour.com
    no link....

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Island Drive View Post
      Like Cincy said, make it a true dbl elim event. $200 entry per division. Times could then be posted waaaaay ahead of time.
      Per conversation with Greg Sullivan, the buy backs will stay, so nix any double elimination ideas.

      Comment


      • #93
        Well, I wonder what's gonna give? Ya never know. It's gotta be a simple fix.
        Bill Meacham
        WBT
        www.worldbilliardtour.com
        no link....

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by stevelomako View Post
          Per conversation with Greg Sullivan, the buy backs will stay, so nix any double elimination ideas.
          I was assuming that, which is why I never suggested eliminating them. I was however asking about different ways they might be managed so they are not part of the problems of scheduling. But I guess my first question should have been, how much are the buy backs part of the scheduling problems at DCC?

          My understanding is that the Grady rule has been used in at least one of the regular CA tournaments. I have heard no reports of darmoose's rule being used.
          "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
          -- Strawberry Brooks

          Comment


          • #95
            duplicate post from me in the grady rules thread .......
            .................
            i think a game clock and match clock would be more helpfull than a shot clock
            and easier to use/enforce with no referee.
            a reasonable time is determined for game time and match time
            right before the break the clock is started for the game time
            and right before the first game the the match time clock is started
            once the allotted time is up
            we need to discuss whats next
            my thoughts are
            after the clock rings
            you have 10? 15? minutes to finish the game...or whoever is ahead wins
            next game each goes to 7 balls or 6 balls
            this for the most part doesnt change the game by arbitrarily spotting balls
            or changing the foul rule
            if the players go over the match time same 10-15 minute "grace " period and whoever is ahead wins
            next game each go to 6 or 5
            final thought
            if the first game goes over and the second game (playing to 7/6 ) puts the average time back on schedule (time for 2 games ) then the 3rd game is played back to a regular game
            this way one long game doesnt change all the rest of the games automatically

            Comment


            • #96
              I've not read the entirety of this thread, but how about just raising the entrry and buy back high enough to weed out some of the dead fish like me. Say, $300 or $400 per? That may shorten the field enough but still get plenty of players?

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by jalapus logan View Post
                I've not read the entirety of this thread, but how about just raising the entrry and buy back high enough to weed out some of the dead fish like me. Say, $300 or $400 per? That may shorten the field enough but still get plenty of players?
                Greg will not do that.

                He wants it affordable so anyone can play and if they beat him up on just the entry for the banks for the event pass and don't buy back he's good with it.
                Last edited by stevelomako; 02-21-2018, 11:06 AM.

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                • #98
                  I run nine and ten ball tournaments at my poolroom and initially I limited the fields to 32 players. Then as the tournaments became more popular, more players wanted to participate. These events are handicapped. I expanded the fields to 64 players and filled up. Guess what happened, the complaints then became that the tournament took too long to run. My only options were to reduce the number of games to win the match and increase the handicaps to move the event along. More blowback came in that players complained that they weren't getting enough value for their entry fee's and the handicaps were too severe. I have 15 tables to run the tournaments and thought long and hard about what to do. Finally I just restricted the tournament size to 40 players and encouraged players to sign up early. Players like the large fields. Its kinda like going to a concert; you want to feel like you are participating in a happening event. I suspect DCC has the same problems and tinkering too much may cause blowback and reduce player participation. There is an old saying, "NO GOOD DEED SHOULD GO UNPUNISHED." I think some things can be done to speed things along without changing the game too much. They can limit the time a player has to report late for his/her match from 15 minutes to 5 minutes. Limit breaks. No practice once the match time and table has been set. If a match has exceeded say 2 hours a referee should be available to monitor slow play vs. long matches based on skill levels of players. And warn slow players to shoot or face penalties such as ball in hand for the opponent when one minute has elapsed in their inning. Remember slow players are not necessarily less skilled players. And, they need more room for additional tables. Good luck with that.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by jerry matchin View Post
                    I run nine and ten ball tournaments at my poolroom and initially I limited the fields to 32 players. Then as the tournaments became more popular, more players wanted to participate. These events are handicapped. I expanded the fields to 64 players and filled up. Guess what happened, the complaints then became that the tournament took too long to run. My only options were to reduce the number of games to win the match and increase the handicaps to move the event along. More blowback came in that players complained that they weren't getting enough value for their entry fee's and the handicaps were too severe. I have 15 tables to run the tournaments and thought long and hard about what to do. Finally I just restricted the tournament size to 40 players and encouraged players to sign up early. Players like the large fields. Its kinda like going to a concert; you want to feel like you are participating in a happening event. I suspect DCC has the same problems and tinkering too much may cause blowback and reduce player participation. There is an old saying, "NO GOOD DEED SHOULD GO UNPUNISHED." I think some things can be done to speed things along without changing the game too much. They can limit the time a player has to report late for his/her match from 15 minutes to 5 minutes. Limit breaks. No practice once the match time and table has been set. If a match has exceeded say 2 hours a referee should be available to monitor slow play vs. long matches based on skill levels of players. And warn slow players to shoot or face penalties such as ball in hand for the opponent when one minute has elapsed in their inning. Remember slow players are not necessarily less skilled players. And, they need more room for additional tables. Good luck with that.

                    I think it was Yogi Berra who said, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
                    "LOL ... judging by your shot selections you play good" -- Hacker, September 29, 2015.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NH Steve View Post
                      I'm not sure how much if any the buy back itself delays things. I get the feeling it does delay the draws each round though because you always hear them announcing the buyback deadlines. I'm going to ask someone down there. Maybe the simplest thing is to give players the option when they first sign up -- and no option after that. So those who want to just fire one barrel can do so. I don't know if that would effect moneys at all or not. A lot of players probably know at the start if they are going to buy back or not.

                      But if it indeed would save drawing times and improve scheduling then it's certainly worth considering!!
                      How about making the one pocket event a dbl elimination fixed entry. $200

                      9 Ball and 9 ball banks, keeps the buybacks in place.

                      In 9 ball winner breaks and no jump cues. Nice touch Greg Sullivan.

                      In rotation pool, I'd also like to see loser racks, winner breaks. This is an area of real concern for this game. The way 9 ball is played in tournaments, its gotten to the point where the rules ''changed the game'' for the worse.

                      Here's another BAD promoter/game rule;

                      Open break on 8 ball if you make any ball, vendor implemented rule, NOT a Player rule, or a rule representing the game of 8 ball.

                      Here's another;

                      Beaker racks was bourne outta the McChesney 9 ball tour years, John had enough racking for those matches that became ''problematic'' because of loose/bad racks.

                      This rule was not put in place from the players, it's the promoters call to stop whining.
                      Bill Meacham
                      WBT
                      www.worldbilliardtour.com
                      no link....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by stevelomako View Post


                        Although, so far everybody is focused and all over the place with changing the complete game...



                        Personally I think things have gotten out of hand a little with so many new threads started about changing the game to this, changing the game to that



                        I don't think there's anything wrong with the rules or how the game is played right now.



                        The main problem is the few matches that run long and what to do about them when they do as to not affect the entire length of the tournament.

                        To start, I think you can identify most of the main culprits that "play slow" ahead of time and just make sure their matches are at the beginning of the rounds instead of the last grouping or two so it doesn't impact the next rounds draw by waiting for them to be done with their match.



                        I think it's better to start from the beginning and work forward instead of from the end and work backwards.

                        For example:
                        All these proposed "new games" and "new rules" still might and probably will have, games and matches that take a long time. Then you're back in the same boat you were before.
                        Bro, I agree with what you've said here.

                        - Ghost
                        jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
                          Bro, I agree with what you've said here.

                          - Ghost
                          Kind of reminds me of being in school...... the kids that disrupt the class have to sit up front.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
                            Bro, I agree with what you've said here.

                            - Ghost
                            If we ''tag'' all slow players from past history, just give em a clock and send em to their table.

                            Or start the entire one pocket event earlier the first day. Most players are there the day before.
                            Bill Meacham
                            WBT
                            www.worldbilliardtour.com
                            no link....

                            Comment


                            • I have a great way to speed up One Pocket games at the DCC. Don’t take a day off from scheduling One Pocket games.
                              The other way to speed up One Pocket is to make sure five balls at least have to pass the side pockets. Sometimes known as an eight ball break.
                              Coyotes, Eagles, and Deer, oh my!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stevelomako View Post
                                I know Steve Booth has talked to Greg which is why he started this thread. Greg and I talked for almost an hour a few days ago about things at the DCC and will be talking again.

                                You're correct about wanting and keeping as many players as possible which is why he wanted input from players on this site.


                                Although, so far everybody is focused and all over the place with changing the complete game...like you find with bar room 8 ball all the the country.



                                Personally I think things have gotten out of hand a little with so many new threads started about changing the game to this, changing the game to that and not one person has tried any of it out yet.



                                I don't think there's anything wrong with the rules or how the game is played right now.



                                The main problem is the few matches that run long and what to do about them when they do as to not affect the entire length of the tournament.

                                To start, I think you can identify most of the main culprits that "play slow" ahead of time and just make sure their matches are at the beginning of the rounds instead of the last grouping or two so it doesn't impact the next rounds draw by waiting for them to be done with their match.




                                I think it's better to start from the beginning and work forward instead of from the end and work backwards.

                                For example:
                                All these proposed "new games" and "new rules" still might and probably will have, games and matches that take a long time. Then you're back in the same boat you were before.
                                Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
                                Bro, I agree with what you've said here.

                                - Ghost
                                Originally posted by Knuckles54 View Post
                                Kind of reminds me of being in school...... the kids that disrupt the class have to sit up front.
                                Originally posted by Island Drive View Post
                                If we ''tag'' all slow players from past history, just give em a clock and send em to their table.

                                Or start the entire one pocket event earlier the first day. Most players are there the day before.
                                We all know most of the "slower" or "methodical" players. There's really not a ton of them. Just seems like it.


                                We just have 3 or 5 people/players point them out after the entries are finished and the desk can put an asterisk after their name and start those matches first.

                                If any of those matches are going long you "red flag" the next match that will be on that table to alert those players they will be going to the next available table or a buffer table somewhere (the action room maybe) as to keep the round moving.

                                Then you have to give both of the original players an asterisk to start both of them early in the next round because you really don't know who was holding up who.


                                For example:
                                Round one starts at 10am, round two at 12:00 and round 3 at 2pm.
                                The first rounders are still playing at noon.
                                You shift the noon match to another table.
                                Now the 2pm match should start on time.

                                There are too many empty tables from quick matches and then you have people waiting and waiting to get on a certain table. It holds everything up.

                                The tournament staff will have to do a little juggling to switch some table assignments but it wouldn't be much and they should earn their money anyway. They are getting paid after all.



                                And a player doesn't get punished for someone else being "methodical" and then being forced to play some funky way just to keep it moving.

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