good and bad reputation of players

[beatle]

fsd

 

[youngstown]

good and bad reputation of players

Reading Freddys book, he seemed to like the shady aspect of the gambling scene. I’ve had some bad experience and some good experiences with some pros, and some I’ve had both types of experiences with. Never had a bad experience with a female professional though, which may be why they are the ones on television the most...

 

[bstroud]

Beatle,

I knew all those guys as well and with one exception agree with you.

They deserved the reputation they got.

Times were different then.

Whitey was the worst, but he could play.

Bill S.

 

[jtompilot]

Reading Freddys book, he seemed to like the shady aspect of the gambling scene. I’ve had some bad experience and some good experiences with some pros, and some I’ve had both types of experiences with. Never had a bad experience with a female professional though, which may be why they are the ones on television the most...

Didn’t Jean Ballukas get kicked off the women’s tour for bad behavior. I can’t remember the details.

 

[jrhendy]

Didn’t Jean Ballukas get kicked off the women’s tour for bad behavior. I can’t remember the details.

I thought she got banned for being too good. Mary K would know if she reads this.

 

[jrhendy]

Beatle,

I knew all those guys as well and with one exception agree with you.

They deserved the reputation they got.

Times were different then.

Whitey was the worst, but he could play.

Bill S.

I heard enough of the Whitey stories from different sources to believe they are true, but was around him in 1961 at The Wonder Bowl near Disneyland in So CA and he was pretty funny at times. He and Bud Buhl, a local hustler, would work the bar in the bowl called the Gay Nineties, and come out and play each other with stake horses they dug up in the bar. The act they put on was hilarious while they were dumping to each other.

As far as playing, I watched him get busted by Johnny ‘Cannonball’ Chapman, pump back up and then bust Johnny.

 

[Jimmy B]

Didn’t Jean Ballukas get kicked off the women’s tour for bad behavior. I can’t remember the details.

Technically, yes..According to Wiki They fined her a couple of hundred for making some very mild remarks during a set and she refused to pay or let other folks pay it, who offered to do so.. She was the best..

 

[lll]

Didn’t Jean Ballukas get kicked off the women’s tour for bad behavior. I can’t remember the details.

I thought she got banned for being too good. Mary K would know if she reads this.

Technically, yes..According to Wiki They fined her a couple of hundred for making some very mild remarks during a set and she refused to pay or let other folks pay it, who offered to do so.. She was the best..

from wikipedia
Break with the sport[edit]
In 1988, Balukas was playing against professional Robin Bell in a televised match of the Brunswick-sponsored World Open Nine-ball Championship held at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, Nevada. Bell, who was Balukas' best friend on the women's tour, had never beaten Balukas but had been playing very strongly in the tournament. With the score 2 games to 3 in favor of Bell in a race to nine games, Bell made the 9 ball on the snap two games in a row, making the score 5 to 2 in very short order.[5][10]
All television match players wore small microphones so that their words and the sounds of play could be heard by the audience. After Bell's second 9 ball break, Balukas reportedly muttered within the range of the microphone words to the effect that Bell was having a string of inordinately lucky shots. She was cautioned by the referee and play continued, with Balukas the ultimate victor with a final score of 9–5.[5][9][10] According to an interview with Balukas appearing in New York Woman magazine in 1991, Balukas's exact words were "Some world championship... beat me with skill, not luck."[5] Despite their off-the-table friendship, following the match Bell made a formal complaint to the WPBA about the incident. The WPBA's board of directors thereafter sanctioned Balukas $200 for unsportsmanlike conduct.[5][10]
Balukas was greatly incensed over the sanction and refused to pay on principle, turning away offers by others to pay the fine in her stead.[10] Balukas explains that "It wasn’t the $200... [Women] pool players, who were ranked three and six and five, were the ones who decided I should be fined. I felt it should have been done by an outside panel, not by my competitors."[5] The sides were at an impasse. Balukas refused to relent and the WPBA refused to lift the sanction and would not allow Balukas to play again until she paid the fine.[10] "Just because she was our premier player doesn't mean she was above the rules,"[10] said Vicki Paski in 1992, then president of the WPBA.[10] Professional Loree Jon Jones in the same interview expressed mixed sentiments: "Her not playing is, I guess, sad,"[10] but she reflected that in Balukas's absence, "we've all learned how to win."[10]
Balukas had also felt some heat from her solo venture into the men's arena. She had heard taunts from the men upon finding out she was going to play in their division, such as "I’m gonna put on a dress and go play with the women."[5] In early 1988, Balukas gave in to complaints from the men upon her entry to a Chicago-based tournament that it wasn't fair she should have the opportunity to play in both divisions when the men only had the opportunity to play in one, and withdrew from the men's side.[5] Balukas states that after she arrived in Chicago "I found out that the first- and second-place winners in the women’s event were going to be invited to play in the men’s event. I was stabbed in the back."[5]
There were other factors at play. Balukas admits to having been under great pressure, much of it self-imposed.[5] After she reached the pinnacle of her profession, "That’s when I started getting nervous... that’s when I started putting a lot of pressure on myself."[5] "Playing against the men, I learned to lose,... but [losing] hurt with the women because I was expected to win all the time."[5] Ultimately Balukas states that her break with the sport "...was a buildup of everything,... A little burnout, a little frustration. It just got to a point where I had so much animosity toward the pool world. And that was my out. You know, you're going to fine me? Well, see you later. That was my excuse to finally say I need a break."[5]
For Balukas's part, she returned to Bay Ridge, took over management of her family's pool hall, Hall of Fame Billiards on Ovington Avenue in Brooklyn,[10] and states that "I'm enjoying my life immensely... I have moved on."[10] In summing up these events in a 1992 article, The New York Times stated, "So America's greatest woman pool player competes only for the odd soda. If you're feeling lucky, drop by her poolroom ... If you're thirsty ... go elsewhere."[10]
Honors[edit]

 

[bstroud]

John,

You are right. Whiteys' act was a riot to watch.

Wouldn't want to eat with him though.

Bill S.

 

[baby huey]

There has been several bad actors who were pretty good players. I always felt that those guys were folks never to hang around with. Why, you'd never know when you might have been associated with them and thus hurt your reputation. I never played with those types because you are going to have a problem and some sort of confrontation would ensue. One time I was playing with Cecil and we knew each other from our early years when he stole the stakes while I went on a bathroom break. My bad that day thinking that $40 on the light would be OK to leave to take a breather. Well I won the game and he quit EVEN but where's my money? I never played him again, and learned a valuable lesson.

 

[vapros]

Beatle’s post that began this thread was on the subject of good or bad reputations of pool players. He even offered several names of players for whom he has little regard in this matter. I have never known any of them, so as I blunder thru my own post I am just musing and conjecturing. I think most of the people on his list were gambling pool players and I also think that would continue if every reader added more names to the list.

Pool long ago established itself as a gambling game, and that hasn’t changed a helluva lot over the years. Imagine the coming Derby City Classic if nobody brought any cash for betting! Hasn’t it always been a positive comment to say that a pool player has lots of gamble? And the more the better. (bettor?) Being ready and willing to risk everything in your pocket - being a ’thru ticket’ - is reason for admiration, is it not?

Let’s recognize that having gamble is not all that heroic if you are playing on someone else’s money, and I suspect that would be the case with many of the names on Beatle’s list – and on yours, maybe? Think of the gambling players who generally bet their own money. How many of them have earned bad reputations for their conduct? I’m sure there are, and have been, a few - just a few. A coincidence? I doubt it.

Personally, gambling does nothing for me and I seldom bet, but I’m certainly not against it and I don’t deny that it continues to be at the heart of our game, largely due to the participation of backer$. However, when discussing good and bad reputations of pool players, I believe it’s at the heart of that also. Feel free to set me straight on this.

 

[Billy Jackets]

I have read a lot of disgusting threads on here , but this is the worst.

 

[vapros]

BJ, I'm glad you liked my post. The point I tried to make is that when you gamble with other people's money and lose, you open yourself to possible criticism of your honesty, and I think this is where bad reputations can originate. This is not such a problem when betting your own money.

 

[Jimmy B]

from wikipedia
Break with the sport[edit]
In 1988, Balukas was playing against professional Robin Bell in a televised match of the Brunswick-sponsored World Open Nine-ball Championship held at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, Nevada. Bell, who was Balukas' best friend on the women's tour, had never beaten Balukas but had been playing very strongly in the tournament. With the score 2 games to 3 in favor of Bell in a race to nine games, Bell made the 9 ball on the snap two games in a row, making the score 5 to 2 in very short order.[5][10]
All television match players wore small microphones so that their words and the sounds of play could be heard by the audience. After Bell's second 9 ball break, Balukas reportedly muttered within the range of the microphone words to the effect that Bell was having a string of inordinately lucky shots. She was cautioned by the referee and play continued, with Balukas the ultimate victor with a final score of 9–5.[5][9][10] According to an interview with Balukas appearing in New York Woman magazine in 1991, Balukas's exact words were "Some world championship... beat me with skill, not luck."[5] Despite their off-the-table friendship, following the match Bell made a formal complaint to the WPBA about the incident. The WPBA's board of directors thereafter sanctioned Balukas $200 for unsportsmanlike conduct.[5][10]
Balukas was greatly incensed over the sanction and refused to pay on principle, turning away offers by others to pay the fine in her stead.[10] Balukas explains that "It wasn’t the $200... [Women] pool players, who were ranked three and six and five, were the ones who decided I should be fined. I felt it should have been done by an outside panel, not by my competitors."[5] The sides were at an impasse. Balukas refused to relent and the WPBA refused to lift the sanction and would not allow Balukas to play again until she paid the fine.[10] "Just because she was our premier player doesn't mean she was above the rules,"[10] said Vicki Paski in 1992, then president of the WPBA.[10] Professional Loree Jon Jones in the same interview expressed mixed sentiments: "Her not playing is, I guess, sad,"[10] but she reflected that in Balukas's absence, "we've all learned how to win."[10]
Balukas had also felt some heat from her solo venture into the men's arena. She had heard taunts from the men upon finding out she was going to play in their division, such as "I’m gonna put on a dress and go play with the women."[5] In early 1988, Balukas gave in to complaints from the men upon her entry to a Chicago-based tournament that it wasn't fair she should have the opportunity to play in both divisions when the men only had the opportunity to play in one, and withdrew from the men's side.[5] Balukas states that after she arrived in Chicago "I found out that the first- and second-place winners in the women’s event were going to be invited to play in the men’s event. I was stabbed in the back."[5]
There were other factors at play. Balukas admits to having been under great pressure, much of it self-imposed.[5] After she reached the pinnacle of her profession, "That’s when I started getting nervous... that’s when I started putting a lot of pressure on myself."[5] "Playing against the men, I learned to lose,... but [losing] hurt with the women because I was expected to win all the time."[5] Ultimately Balukas states that her break with the sport "...was a buildup of everything,... A little burnout, a little frustration. It just got to a point where I had so much animosity toward the pool world. And that was my out. You know, you're going to fine me? Well, see you later. That was my excuse to finally say I need a break."[5]
For Balukas's part, she returned to Bay Ridge, took over management of her family's pool hall, Hall of Fame Billiards on Ovington Avenue in Brooklyn,[10] and states that "I'm enjoying my life immensely... I have moved on."[10] In summing up these events in a 1992 article, The New York Times stated, "So America's greatest woman pool player competes only for the odd soda. If you're feeling lucky, drop by her poolroom ... If you're thirsty ... go elsewhere."[10]
Honors[edit]

Thanks, Larry.. Guess what?? Loree Jon is still playing good.. I watched her play a match at Turning Stone yesterday.. She beat the shit out of some guy.. I was not familiar with him, but his last name was Kolee.. He had his name in big letters on the back of his shirt, so he had to be real good.. Right? I'm getting my name put on the back of several of my shirts..That should raise me up about a ball, ball and a half, maybe..

 

[Billy Jackets]

BJ, I'm glad you liked my post. The point I tried to make is that when you gamble with other people's money and lose, you open yourself to possible criticism of your honesty, and I think this is where bad reputations can originate. This is not such a problem when betting your own money.

My comments weren't about gambling or anything else, except how distasteful bashing dead people is.

 

[Island Drive]

many have traveled and knew a lot of the old time and new time players and gamblers. and we all have our opinions of them as individuals. that's normal.

those opinions come from what we have seen or experienced and also from memories of happenings that may only include a small sample of time with the person or the place if talking about a pool room or bar. and that small sample of time can be way off considering the reality or very accurate for when it happened.

i personally have little respect for some players like johnny ervolino, sizemore, washington youngblood, nubby morgan, detroit whitey, joe veasy, cecil tugwell, mosconi, ronnie allen, cuban joey, denny searcy, billy rae sudan and a few others.

some think the old 7,11 in new york was great but i thought it was a dump full of creeps and thieves, but lots of action players around and world champs.

someone else may think greatly of a few of those. that's just how we as persons will have different opinions.

What's interesting, with all the people you've met in a pool room, you'll eventually meet that SAME personality later in life, somewhere else. Most often at work. Ya can't like everybody in life, but having spent time in a pool room, one learns how to make better choices.

All sports/jobs/school....have good guys, bad guys and creeps, that is a given.

 

[jrhendy]

What's interesting, with all the people you've met in a pool room, you'll eventually meet that SAME personality later in life, somewhere else. Most often at work. Ya can't like everybody in life, but having spent time in a pool room, one learns how to make better choices.

All sports/jobs/school....have good guys, bad guys and creeps, that is a given.

One of the most valuable things I learned growing up in a pool room IMO, is that many of the people you meet sticking their hand out have the other hand in your pocket.

 

[Island Drive]

One of the most valuable things I learned growing up in a pool room IMO, is that many of the people you meet sticking their hand out have the other hand in your pocket.

Evelyne Wanderone also described it this way....

Gus Schultz, the justice of the piece who married Fats on the Missouri, stair well landing....during his speech, was watching fatty play with his wad of cash in his pants. Here's Ev's observation. Very similar to Hendys description.

" And Fats knew he was watchin' his pocket, ''as burglars lift from burglars'' ya know .

Her exact words.