Daulton vs Reyes

[petie]

Very touchy and dangerous situation. I see two options. Hit the 5 into the gap between the 9 and the 4 hard enough that the 5 can clear itself after the collision of balls and try to control whitey to stop between the 10 and 6 on the stack. This would be very difficult and carries with it a degree of unpredictability that could backfire. Hopefully you would make the 4 and clear the 9 and the 5 and not leave a shot on the 13 or a bank on the pink stripe.

The other option and the one I like the best is to slow roll directly into the 8 and follow to the side rail.

 

[NH Steve]

Very touchy and dangerous situation. I see two options. Hit the 5 into the gap between the 9 and the 4 hard enough that the 5 can clear itself after the collision of balls and try to control whitey to stop between the 10 and 6 on the stack. This would be very difficult and carries with it a degree of unpredictability that could backfire. Hopefully you would make the 4 and clear the 9 and the 5 and not leave a shot on the 13 or a bank on the pink stripe.

The other option and the one I like the best is to slow roll directly into the 8 and follow to the side rail.

I think Shannon probably could not fully see the 5-ball -- I believe the cue was too snug against the 1-ball to go by.

 

[wincardona]

Only problem with the shot he didnt do anything excepte put himself in a bigger trap.

You cant shoot shots like that against a champion. Those shots are worthless.

And he did nothhing put prolong the aggone. When youre in a trap you have too figure out howe too get out off the trap .

Not howe you stay in the trap. And that was a poor choice Shannon made.

He could have tried a few other things. But the shot he tried did nothing.

Stop it, Shannon made a hell of a shot to START to work his self out of the trap. I was there and he really didn't have any other options. The angles that we see with the picture presented doesn't necessarily show the real angles. You really have to be at the table to know what's available. But even from our computers Shannon made a great shot, he will now have an opportunity to get out of the trap. Sometimes the only shot available may not be the solution to the problem but it's the only reasonable shot available. It's like building a house, you start with the foundation and go from there.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

...and here is how Efren left it. He got barely behind the top part of the 1-ball. Now it is Shannon's shot. What should Shannon do?

This is why I say that Shannon made a good shot, you get out of immediate danger and see what your opponent does from there. Reye's almost made a good shot but he fell short of the position he wanted to end up in, behind the 1 ball. Obviously Shannon's shot put the demand to perform back on Reye's which he faltered on. Now Shannon can continue to get out of the trap.

Billy I.

 

[Miller]

looks like you are not totally hooked and can get at least get low on the cue ball. try to leave efren tough and move the seven towards the side pocket.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This is why I say that Shannon made a good shot, you get out of immediate danger and see what your opponent does from there. Reye's almost made a good shot but he fell short of the position he wanted to end up in, behind the 1 ball. Obviously Shannon's shot put the demand to perform back on Reye's which he faltered on. Now Shannon can continue to get out of the trap.

Billy I.

You might think its a great shot. I think it was a waisyed shot. And didnt change his position. And I am sure everyone can see that.

And it he didnt hit it perfect he gives Eferine a easy shot too start frome too run 8 and out.

And as far ae choices thier were other choices. And one off the best choices from the position he was in.

Was cutting the tree ball up the table and putting Eferine in the stack. Or he could shoot off the 3 ball and leave hih sown the end rail behuind the 8 ball.

And If he can hit the 8 ball were he is. He can do the same thing go off the 8 ball and leave him dpwn the end rail. Behind the 8 ball.

Or he could go off the stack and do the same thing.

Or he can kick the 9 ball in and If the 9 ball hits the 4 ball the cue ball will be behind the 4 ball and he cant hit the 3 ball.

And on that shot he will be out off his major trap.

And the shot Eferine shot after wards is a joke trying too freeze him on a frozen ball on the rail at the angle he has Is redicoulous.

All he has too do is ggo down the end tail off the 3 ball and the game is almost as good as over.

Or Eferine coud hit the 3 ball and go into the stack. And Shannon would be all done.

Teying to go behind the one ball off the 3 ball. It not a easy shot too execuite. Ans even if he does put him behind the one ball.

All Shannon has too do is go off the one ball and leave him down the eld rail on the side . Thier is nothing that Eferine can do from thier.

So you see going behind the one ball realy doest help Eferine as much as the other 2 shots.

Because off were yiou leave the cue ball. And the two balls are tied up if Eferine is on the side rail by his pocket.

Thats why the other two shots Eliminate that angle. But lot too meny people can see that or even think about it.

People have a very hard time thinking ahead playing one pocket. It seemes too be the biggest problem.

And it amazes me because how great the shoot and execuite. But thier thinking is behind thier ability too shoot and execuite.

And again too say that Shannon made a great shot by shooiting the kick shot. Is redicoulous. He didnt solove anything by shooting it.

And the truth is he shot that shot because he didnt no what else too do.

And you cannot again. Leave a great player in the position that Shannon left Efreine in.

Because you just made it worse then were he was. And he had some strong options too get out off the trap if he wanted to gamble on the shot before.

Thier were two strong gambling shots he could have shot If he wanted too move the balls from Eferines pocket.

By a gambling shot I mean he has too execuite the shot. And has too be accurite too execuiye the shot.

But sometimes you have too take the gamble when you have a chance.

Becayse off the position youre in. Shooting a micky mouse shot. and not doing nothing and makeing it worse. You cannot do that agains a great player.

Who knowes howe too play. If you shoot those shots you will make it worse. And you are taking a chance to give youre opponent a free shot close too the balls too run 8 and out.

And if the shot you shot has no reason or meaning behind it. Then you are shooting a usless shot. THat you can only loose or kake it worse. And thats what Shannon did on that shot.

And hopping for some miracle too happen by shooting a shot that does nothing Is a loosing proposition.

And too think you did somwething by doing nothing on the shot. Without any reason or Idea. Why you shot the shot is like saying /

I dont no what too do so I will just shoot this shot. Without a reason WHY WHY he shot it. And to say stall for time.

Comon lets get real. This isnt kindergarden. He is playing a player. Not somebody that doesnt no howe too play.

And you cannot get away shooting baby stall shots too delay the game.

Because without a plane or reason Why you are shootuing that shot is a loosers shot.

And cannot help your game or position. And he just shot that shot for no Idea or reason. But too play a simple safty.

Witch he realy made it worse for himself then the position he was in before.

Shooting a shot wiothout out knoweing Why you are shooting it is like playing nine ball. Following the numbers.

ITs not playing one pocket. Its shooting a nothing shot. Without any reason. And too Bs youselfe well we will see what he does from her.

Maybe a mirecale will happen on the next shot. If you dont no why you are shooting a shot. Then you are not playing one pocket.

And for all those people who dont want too belive what I am saying. ASk the player Why he shot the shot. And what did he think Eferine was going too do from that position. I would bet he had no Idea or clue what Eferines next shot was going too be.

He didnt even think about it. All he was thinking was too play safe. And whatever happines from thier happines.

If he would have stopet and thought about it and figured out what Eferine would do from that position.

Thier is no way in the world he would have shot that shot. Because he never figured out what Eferine was going too do from thier.

Player just dont think that way.All the think about is were they can leave the cue ball too be safe.

But thier is no thinking procces involved. And youre wright Shannon made a great shot too help Eferine even more. THats howe good off a shot it was.

I dont give out complements too be nice. I give them out when they are desirved.

What I see id people giving out a lot off complements too each other too be nice.

Not because they are desirved. And yoy are wright about one thing by soing it that way more people will like you and you will get more people on youre side and way more people wuill even agree with you for being real nice.

I call that Bs. And if you are looking for votes or having everyone like you and agree with you when you say something.

THey will defanatly take your side no matter what is being talket about. Because you have locket up thier minds by being a nice guy. Instead off being a reble.

But too me it means nothing. Because I see the reasoning behind it. And if you are allways nice and complementing people. Then they will think that the person is a nice guy.

I see a different picture and reason for this being said and done.
And I am the same way with my shots and choices.

I bring out what I realy see in the shot. And what should be done. And a lot off people will not agree. Because too be able too agree on something.

You have too understand it youself. And see the shot and what will happen too the shot in your own mind.

And you have to vizulize the shot and the resulte and what will happen from thier.

If you can do all off that then ypu are realy starting to learn and think the correct way.

If you dont do this then thier is a lot more for you too learn . But keep thinking and playing and practicing. And you will become the player you want too be.

Its all what you do and what you learn. I have bee trying too teach people howe too think.

Becvause that is a very big part off the game. Once you learn howe too shoot and exicute. Knowledge is what will improve youre game.

And you do that by learning how too think.

 

[wincardona]

You might think its a great shot. I think it was a waisyed shot. And didnt change his position. And I am sure everyone can see that.

And it he didnt hit it perfect he gives Eferine a easy shot too start frome too run 8 and out.

And as far ae choices thier were other choices. And one off the best choices from the position he was in.

Was cutting the tree ball up the table and putting Eferine in the stack. Or he could shoot off the 3 ball and leave hih sown the end rail behuind the 8 ball.

And If he can hit the 8 ball were he is. He can do the same thing go off the 8 ball and leave him dpwn the end rail. Behind the 8 ball.

Or he could go off the stack and do the same thing.

Or he can kick the 9 ball in and If the 9 ball hits the 4 ball the cue ball will be behind the 4 ball and he cant hit the 3 ball.

And on that shot he will be out off his major trap.

And the shot Eferine shot after wards is a joke trying too freeze him on a frozen ball on the rail at the angle he has Is redicoulous.

All he has too do is ggo down the end tail off the 3 ball and the game is almost as good as over.

Or Eferine coud hit the 3 ball and go into the stack. And Shannon would be all done.

Teying to go behind the one ball off the 3 ball. It not a easy shot too execuite. Ans even if he does put him behind the one ball.

All Shannon has too do is go off the one ball and leave him down the eld rail on the side . Thier is nothing that Eferine can do from thier.

So you see going behind the one ball realy doest help Eferine as much as the other 2 shots.

Because off were yiou leave the cue ball. And the two balls are tied up if Eferine is on the side rail by his pocket.

Thats why the other two shots Eliminate that angle. But lot too meny people can see that or even think about it.

People have a very hard time thinking ahead playing one pocket. It seemes too be the biggest problem.

And it amazes me because how great the shoot and execuite. But thier thinking is behind thier ability too shoot and execuite.

And again too say that Shannon made a great shot by shooiting the kick shot. Is redicoulous. He didnt solove anything by shooting it.

And the truth is he shot that shot because he didnt no what else too do.

And you cannot again. Leave a great player in the position that Shannon left Efreine in.

Because you just made it worse then were he was. And he had some strong options too get out off the trap if he wanted to gamble on the shot before.

Thier were two strong gambling shots he could have shot If he wanted too move the balls from Eferines pocket.

By a gambling shot I mean he has too execuite the shot. And has too be accurite too execuiye the shot.

But sometimes you have too take the gamble when you have a chance.

Becayse off the position youre in. Shooting a micky mouse shot. and not doing nothing and makeing it worse. You cannot do that agains a great player.

Who knowes howe too play. If you shoot those shots you will make it worse. And you are taking a chance to give youre opponent a free shot close too the balls too run 8 and out.

And if the shot you shot has no reason or meaning behind it. Then you are shooting a usless shot. THat you can only loose or kake it worse. And thats what Shannon did on that shot.

And hopping for some miracle too happen by shooting a shot that does nothing Is a loosing proposition.

And too think you did somwething by doing nothing on the shot. Without any reason or Idea. Why you shot the shot is like saying /

I dont no what too do so I will just shoot this shot. Without a reason WHY WHY he shot it. And to say stall for time.

Comon lets get real. This isnt kindergarden. He is playing a player. Not somebody that doesnt no howe too play.

And you cannot get away shooting baby stall shots too delay the game.

Because without a plane or reason Why you are shootuing that shot is a loosers shot.

And cannot help your game or position. And he just shot that shot for no Idea or reason. But too play a simple safty.

Witch he realy made it worse for himself then the position he was in before.

Shooting a shot wiothout out knoweing Why you are shooting it is like playing nine ball. Following the numbers.

ITs not playing one pocket. Its shooting a nothing shot. Without any reason. And too Bs youselfe well we will see what he does from her.

Maybe a mirecale will happen on the next shot. If you dont no why you are shooting a shot. Then you are not playing one pocket.

And for all those people who dont want too belive what I am saying. ASk the player Why he shot the shot. And what did he think Eferine was going too do from that position. I would bet he had no Idea or clue what Eferines next shot was going too be.

He didnt even think about it. All he was thinking was too play safe. And whatever happines from thier happines.

If he would have stopet and thought about it and figured out what Eferine would do from that position.

Thier is no way in the world he would have shot that shot. Because he never figured out what Eferine was going too do from thier.

Player just dont think that way.All the think about is were they can leave the cue ball too be safe.

But thier is no thinking procces involved. And youre wright Shannon made a great shot too help Eferine even more. THats howe good off a shot it was.

I dont give out complements too be nice. I give them out when they are desirved.

What I see id people giving out a lot off complements too each other too be nice.

Not because they are desirved. And yoy are wright about one thing by soing it that way more people will like you and you will get more people on youre side and way more people wuill even agree with you for being real nice.

I call that Bs. And if you are looking for votes or having everyone like you and agree with you when you say something.

THey will defanatly take your side no matter what is being talket about. Because you have locket up thier minds by being a nice guy. Instead off being a reble.

But too me it means nothing. Because I see the reasoning behind it. And if you are allways nice and complementing people. Then they will think that the person is a nice guy.

I see a different picture and reason for this being said and done.
And I am the same way with my shots and choices.

I bring out what I realy see in the shot. And what should be done. And a lot off people will not agree. Because too be able too agree on something.

You have too understand it youself. And see the shot and what will happen too the shot in your own mind.

And you have to vizulize the shot and the resulte and what will happen from thier.

If you can do all off that then ypu are realy starting to learn and think the correct way.

If you dont do this then thier is a lot more for you too learn . But keep thinking and playing and practicing. And you will become the player you want too be.

Its all what you do and what you learn. I have bee trying too teach people howe too think.

Becvause that is a very big part off the game. Once you learn howe too shoot and exicute. Knowledge is what will improve youre game.

And you do that by learning how too think.

All I can say is that I agree to disagree.

Billy I.

 

[NH Steve]

I think Shannon probably could not fully see the 5-ball -- I believe the cue was too snug against the 1-ball to go by.

On second look, Shannon could see the whole 5-ball or so. My apologies for misleading you all -- you can see him looking intently here, so it must have been close:

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

On second look, Shannon could see the whole 5-ball or so. My apologies for misleading you all -- you can see him looking intently here, so it must have been close:

Thats a good shot banking the 3 ball. Now you are doing something too get out off trouble. Not just hand him the game on a platter.

Banking the 3 ball will get something done . Those are the shots you need too look for to get out off trouble. Not just dome baby shot. That has no thought behind it.

 

[wincardona]

Thats a good shot banking the 3 ball. Now you are doing something too get out off trouble. Not just hand him the game on a platter.

Banking the 3 ball will get something done . Those are the shots you need too look for to get out off trouble. Not just dome baby shot. That has no thought behind it.

I don't believe that the angle is conducive to bank the 3 ball. It looks like the speed of the shot is not laying good. Banking the 3 ball he will not be able to control the cue ball, and if he slow rolls the bank and plays cue ball he will leave Reye's the option of shooting off the 3 ball or shooting off the top of the stack and float behind the 1 ball.

Shannon is looking to do something with the 5 ball, I believe. As a last resort he may lag into the 3 ball and play cue ball. But if he does that he may give up the shots that I described.

Billy I.

 

[Miller]

On second look, Shannon could see the whole 5-ball or so. My apologies for misleading you all -- you can see him looking intently here, so it must have been close:

in that case, petie's first option looks good, maybe the 1 goes as well

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I don't believe that the angle is conducive to bank the 3 ball. It looks like the speed of the shot is not laying good. Banking the 3 ball he will not be able to control the cue ball, and if he slow rolls the bank and plays cue ball he will leave Reye's the option of shooting off the 3 ball or shooting off the top of the stack and float behind the 1 ball.

Shannon is looking to do something with the 5 ball, I believe. As a last resort he may lag into the 3 ball and play cue ball. But if he does that he may give up the shots that I described.

Billy I.

If he can shoot the 3 ball and leave the cueball onEferines side off the table ererine isnt going too do anything. And he can get a shot from Efrine on his next shot too move the 3 balls by Efreines pocket.

That shot is a moster over the shot. That Shannon shot. Witch was a complete nothing shot. And leaving Efrine close too the balls were he can put him in more trouble.

And you must think its easy going behind the one ball thats almost froze too the rail.

I seen people try that shot and the cueball ended up on the other side and left the player a perfect shot.

Leaving the cue ball behind the one ball from were Eferine is I dont think he is a favorite too do that.

And even if he does and he is not perfect behind the one ball he can hit the one ball thin and leave him down the oyher end behind the balls al Eferine cant do mmuch from thier.

Because he didnt work on his problem. Breacking up the two balls. By his pocket. And youre not going too do much if he can shoot the 3 ball.

And leave him on the other side. You tell me what are you going too do frome thier.

If Shannon shots that shot and leaved you on the otheier side off the table.

And I dont like Eferines shot at all if he tried too get behind the one ball.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Stop it, Shannon made a hell of a shot to START to work his self out of the trap. I was there and he really didn't have any other options. The angles that we see with the picture presented doesn't necessarily show the real angles. You really have to be at the table to know what's available. But even from our computers Shannon made a great shot, he will now have an opportunity to get out of the trap. Sometimes the only shot available may not be the solution to the problem but it's the only reasonable shot available. It's like building a house, you start with the foundation and go from there.

Billy I.

Building a house youre not in a trap having too get out. You just build the house and thats it.

You cant build nthing when youre in a trap. And the the shot he shot made it even worse too get out off the trap.

Building a house has nothing too do with being in a trap.

 

[petie]

in that case, petie's first option looks good, maybe the 1 goes as well

Miller, make a mental note: Whenever you agree with my shot choice, think twice before you press 'Submit.' It's amazing what the real players come up with after I blow my cover with an enthusiastic suggestion from way down here at my level of play. Thanks.

 

[wincardona]

Building a house youre not in a trap having too get out. You just build the house and thats it.

You cant build nthing when youre in a trap. And the the shot he shot made it even worse too get out off the trap.

Building a house has nothing too do with being in a trap.

Let me explain what I meant when I said it's like building a house. There are some situations that require a a lot of work to build, whether it be an offensive position, or breaking down a threatening position. The situation Shannon is confronted with is a threatening position, where Reyes has balls surrounding his pocket and no way of clearing them. So Shannons answer to this position is to figure out how to clear the balls from Reyes side. There may be more than one way to deal with situations like this one but you seem to think that your way is the only way. Shannon believed that by kicking at the pink ball he would change the position by repositioning the hanging pink ball, a ball that was the crux of the problem. Then he would have more options the next time at the table to deal with the position Reye's created. Shannon must have believed that not kicking at the pink ball would leave Reyes with many more good options, considering the position of the pink ball hanging in front of the pocket, which I 100% agree with. So by kicking at the pink ball he would start his plan of getting out of the trap. So far it seems to be working, regardless of the reasons.

Artie, your way of thinking obviously was great for you, but there are other ways to think and play as well. How can you expect people to learn the game when you vehemently oppose champions choices, in spite of the successes they get. You seem to be stuck in that mode that your way is the only way, and it's not fair to the people that play the game and want to learn the game. I apologize if it seems to you that i'm coming on too strong, but your statements are pretty strong to.

Players like Hopkins and Daulton are two of the greatest one pocket players in the last 40 years and their shot choices should be respected, regardless of how we feel, they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

If I was doing commentary on a match and I saw a situation different than the champion did, I would say either that I didn't see that option or say that there is another option that I think is as good or better. Then I would explain my option. That way the people that are watching will learn something from both the champion and myself. But to say that the champion shot a nothing shot, and constantly disputing champions choices is only going to confuse people and show disrespect to the champion.

You had a lot of good things to say in the Jeremy Jones playing Buddy Hall match, because you respect Buddy Halls game. You should give other champions that same respect as you gave to Buddy, that way people will enjoy and learn while their watching.

Billy I.

 

[Miller]

Miller, make a mental note: Whenever you agree with my shot choice, think twice before you press 'Submit.' It's amazing what the real players come up with after I blow my cover with an enthusiastic suggestion from way down here at my level of play. Thanks.

ha. know what you mean, myself as well. i am like a sponge soaking up the knowledge shared here.

i set it up and played it several times last night. not sure if whitey makes it back into the stack, but it appears both those balls can definately be moved and i think the 1 has a fair chance to drop, and then you are in business.

 

[wincardona]

If he can shoot the 3 ball and leave the cueball onEferines side off the table ererine isnt going too do anything. And he can get a shot from Efrine on his next shot too move the 3 balls by Efreines pocket.

That shot is a moster over the shot. That Shannon shot. Witch was a complete nothing shot. And leaving Efrine close too the balls were he can put him in more trouble.

And you must think its easy going behind the one ball thats almost froze too the rail.

I seen people try that shot and the cueball ended up on the other side and left the player a perfect shot.

Leaving the cue ball behind the one ball from were Eferine is I dont think he is a favorite too do that.

And even if he does and he is not perfect behind the one ball he can hit the one ball thin and leave him down the oyher end behind the balls al Eferine cant do mmuch from thier.

Because he didnt work on his problem. Breacking up the two balls. By his pocket. And youre not going too do much if he can shoot the 3 ball.

And leave him on the other side. You tell me what are you going too do frome thier.

If Shannon shots that shot and leaved you on the otheier side off the table.

And I dont like Eferines shot at all if he tried too get behind the one ball.

You're a shot behind, we're past the situation you're talking about. Look at post #45 that's where we are now.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

I don't believe that the angle is conducive to bank the 3 ball. It looks like the speed of the shot is not laying good. Banking the 3 ball he will not be able to control the cue ball, and if he slow rolls the bank and plays cue ball he will leave Reye's the option of shooting off the 3 ball or shooting off the top of the stack and float behind the 1 ball.

Shannon is looking to do something with the 5 ball, I believe. As a last resort he may lag into the 3 ball and play cue ball. But if he does that he may give up the shots that I described.

Billy I.

My first option would to do something with the 5 ball if available. From my vantage point (the computer) it's hard to tell what's available if anything. But I would try to do something with the 5 ball if I could. If nothings available on the foot end of the table I would shoot off the 3 ball, but I would hit it with enough speed to reposition the cue ball at least to the center diamond near the top rail. From there I would cut down the options that I would leave for Reyes. You do not want to leave Reye's an opportunity to play off the stack and drop you behind the 1 ball, which he can't do if the cue ball is positioned near the top center diamond.

I don't remember what Shannon did but I believe that whatever he did it worked out well.

Billy I.

 

[petie]

Here's another option if you're a billiard player or a suicidal one pocket player. Hit the 3 ball with high left and two rail it for your pocket but play whitie to die on the upper left hand side of the rack.

 

[SE10player]

Thanks

Thanks

First off let me say thanks to everyone for sharing this great knowledge. I have learned a lot from these posts and by setting up the shots to try. I would ask one thing though for us newbies, when you tell what shot you would shoot include the english and possibly the speed. It would help a lot when trying to make them at home. Anyway keep up the great job, I can't wait to see what shot is next.