Reyes clearly the best ever

[CaliRed]

i have been around one pocket for 60 years and would pay to see efren play worst best i have ever seen .........

welcome to the forums James... please tell us about yourself and feel free to jump in on any discussion you care to. We got some other 60 year veterans here, and anybody that has 60 years of knowledge can help us that don't.

 

[lll]

heres a question for the knowledgeable elders
ronnie allen who is always in the conversation as among the greatest 1p players ever
what did he do that made him so great????
i ask truly as someone who never saw him play, yet read the reverence given to him by his peers

heres where im coming from


all the people mentioned in this discussion knew how to win
all played and came thru in pressure situations many times over
efrin i think in addition to the above seems to come up with the magical shot that is so far off the charts in imagination and difficulty in execution that the impression it leaves you with is THATS AMAZING or OMG

thats what i think sets him apart



ronnie from what i have read was one of the first to play 1p in an offensive style
ie shooting more ,moving many balls with one shot,etc and winning .
lets not forget that part . but did he do OMG shots (for artie that means oh my god)
do you think that that is something that separates the the very best from the rest??

can a "squeezer" who doesnt do anything flashy but plays perfectly make the list.
people who excel at straight pool for example dont do anything "flashy"
they ONLY JUST perfectly execute the shot and control the cue ball
manage the clusters etc.
so to be the greatest straight pool plyer you dont need to be known for the OMG shot


can you be the greatest 1p player and not be known for coming up with the OMG shot??

 

[jamesduval]

i have been playing pool at cgchrons in the late 50s untile it closed my nicname backthen was the martican later on in years it became saltman

 

[jamesduval]

one pocket of old was one or two balls and lock up safty ronnie by himself changed the game to ofence eight and out ronnie said the best were efern and worst the best monney wtnner of all time is jack conney more patciens than moose

 

[NH Steve]

i have been playing pool at cgchrons in the late 50s untile it closed my nicname backthen was the martican later on in years it became saltman

Good to see you here, and even better to see you doing great out in Vegas!

Harold Worst -- what a shame he died at only 39 years old. There may be a tiny bit of video from the Johnston City events, but not anything that would really show his talent.

 

[jamesduval]

glad to see you in lost wages hope your dinner was good you desever it you are class from the git go

 

[Island Drive]

One thing that I find in contrast to Effie/one hole, to lets say Ronnie Allen in his prime, I don't see Efren MOVE as many balls as RA used to do on one shot. RA had the ability to reshuffled the deck unlike many other players. I always thought of him in the early johnson city days while going to school at SIU as a young Jack Nicklaus. RA's mechanics were so simple, and he worked whitey so well. And when it comes to Artie, I always heard about this man witha 9' Gold Crown in his upstairs apt. lurking for the high dollar games, and too, Mexican Johnny was legendary, and Abruzzos' name was also tossed around allot to us youngsters.

 

[wincardona]

Ronnie was a great player, make no mistake about it. His strengths were moving balls, kicking balls, and running balls. In addition to that he was the best at distracting his opponent with his gift of gab. He would put extra pressure on his opponents by playing psychological games with his opponent to gain an advantage.

Reyes in his prime was nothing short of brilliant, he did every thing well, including thinking at the table. Some think that Reyes was not a good mover, but how do you describe the word mover? Reyes has the best understanding of playing pool over anyone that I have seen play. He uses his imagination to win with, and that's how he moves.

Billy I.

 

[newfosgatesucks]

Artie:

You may want to reconsider your opinion of Efren's straight pool play. When he didn't even know the rules of the game, he was capable of 150's and defeated many seasoned players in the few tournaments he did play in.

In America we play defensive rotation. Efren plays run-out rotation. straight pool is like the shallow end of the swimming pool for Efren. I have seen him at work! And you're sewn-up, froze, and hooked when you get a shot.

I would venture to say he could compete with any young gun in straight pool, Mr 500 being no exception. If the match ever happened I would take the money spot over the ball spot, if that is any indication of how I feel about it!

And for as little 3 cushion as he played, he was a middle of the field type guy in tournament play. The top players could beat him, but it wasn't given. They had to be playing at their best.

Banking-wise, just look at his Derby record-not THE best, but no more than he plays bank, Ill take him even money against all but the top players. With a little polishing up he might take even the top players.

 

[newfosgatesucks]

Artie:

You may want to reconsider your opinion of Efren's straight pool play. When he didn't even know the rules of the game, he was capable of 150's and defeated many seasoned players in the few tournaments he did play in.

In America we play defensive rotation. Efren plays run-out rotation. straight pool is like the shallow end of the swimming pool for Efren. I have seen him at work! And you're sewn-up, froze, and hooked when you get a shot.

I would venture to say he could compete with any young gun in straight pool, Mr 500 being no exception. If the match ever happened I would take the money spot over the ball spot, if that is any indication of how I feel about it!

And for as little 3 cushion as he played, he was a middle of the field type guy in tournament play. The top players could beat him, but it wasn't given. They had to be playing at their best.

Banking-wise, just look at his Derby record-not THE best, but no more than he plays bank, Ill take him even money against all but the top players. With a little polishing up he might take even the top players.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie:

You may want to reconsider your opinion of Efren's straight pool play. When he didn't even know the rules of the game, he was capable of 150's and defeated many seasoned players in the few tournaments he did play in.

In America we play defensive rotation. Efren plays run-out rotation. straight pool is like the shallow end of the swimming pool for Efren. I have seen him at work! And you're sewn-up, froze, and hooked when you get a shot.

I would venture to say he could compete with any young gun in straight pool, Mr 500 being no exception. If the match ever happened I would take the money spot over the ball spot, if that is any indication of how I feel about it!

And for as little 3 cushion as he played, he was a middle of the field type guy in tournament play. The top players could beat him, but it wasn't given. They had to be playing at their best.

Banking-wise, just look at his Derby record-not THE best, but no more than he plays bank, Ill take him even money against all but the top players. With a little polishing up he might take even the top players.

Ill polish up when I get to 85 years old too. And for straight pool he couldnt carry Will Mosconies shoes. THe stories sound good.

But not in the real world. And Three coushion he just played ok like straight pool.

You must have followed him around and been with hin all the time. Since he was a kid. You no so much about him.

When you have exceptional shooting ability you can do a lot. Just like a great baseball hitter.

They hit eveything. Thier is no daught that Efren is a great player. And still is.

Does he compair too the greatest in these other games. Sorry to disapoint you. Thee answer is no.

THe two games in Qouistion are nine ball and One pocket. Those are the two games. And He doesnt get my vote for top player.

And that will never change or be proven. Its all opinions. And Guessing. And we no how good people do with guessing. They all go brock.

And you talk about tournements. Shane and other players will end up winning more tournements then Eferine.

And even with his great shooting. He should be playing in those big snooker tournements for the money is bigger.

And rhe truth again. He cannot bear those players. And neither can the Americans and a lot off straight shooters tried it.

But had llittle succes. You think a straight shooter could win. But they dont shoot straight enough.

And when people talk about great players. Thats who we compaire. Not beating a bunch off people who cant play.

THey should have some tournements were ony the top 8 or 12 players play each other. A round robin . And then you will see some real pool.

But that wont make they money that a lot off people will make by playing.

THe need to have perfessional tournements were only the greatest players play.

Thats what people want too see. The best playing the best. But it doesnt happen much.

Unless they meet in the finals. Take the top 8 or 12 best one pocket players or 10 ball players. And let them play a round robin.

And then you will see some pool. I dont think that will happen. But maybee it will.

And thier are a lot off great players. And I realy coulndt single out one player. Out off all thiose great players.

Every fan in sports think their team was the greatest. And they had the greatest players. But its nothing but opinions and what people want too belive.

And thats ok to have a opinon. And they only problem with that.

THE WHOLE WORLD HAS OPINIONS.

 

[philwelch]

Artie:

You may want to reconsider your opinion of Efren's straight pool play. When he didn't even know the rules of the game, he was capable of 150's and defeated many seasoned players in the few tournaments he did play in.

In America we play defensive rotation. Efren plays run-out rotation. straight pool is like the shallow end of the swimming pool for Efren. I have seen him at work! And you're sewn-up, froze, and hooked when you get a shot.

I would venture to say he could compete with any young gun in straight pool, Mr 500 being no exception. If the match ever happened I would take the money spot over the ball spot, if that is any indication of how I feel about it!

And for as little 3 cushion as he played, he was a middle of the field type guy in tournament play. The top players could beat him, but it wasn't given. They had to be playing at their best.

Banking-wise, just look at his Derby record-not THE best, but no more than he plays bank, Ill take him even money against all but the top players. With a little polishing up he might take even the top players.

I just watched a tape of Efren beating Dallas West 150-1 playing straight pool. Efren ran something like 140 before he got in trouble and played safe.
It was an interesting match up.

I don't think anyone would say Dallas wasn't a formidable opponent.

 

[IIRUSTYII]

No artie there's actually more than two games in question.... Let's refer back to the 8-ball game, where u said there were 4 or 5 five that were above effen in his prime. I'm not trying to speak for billy I., but I believe he said he would bet on him right now, at the broken down age of 57, against yes, that's right, ANYBODY.. So take ya boy Appleton that you think plays CORRECT 8-ball and you and billy get together and lets have an exhibition 8-ball match.... The man in his prime versus an old broken down 57 year old man that doesnt even know how to play 8-ball.... Money talks and bs walks.... Please Billy backup your words if this goes to the next level, although I'm sure it won't. I dont have the money to stake efren,,, but I would sure like to watch him learn how to play 8ball CORRECTLY.... Maybe he'd get lucky,,,, who knows???????

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

No artie there's actually more than two games in question.... Let's refer back to the 8-ball game, where u said there were 4 or 5 five that were above effen in his prime. I'm not trying to speak for billy I., but I believe he said he would bet on him right now, at the broken down age of 57, against yes, that's right, ANYBODY.. So take ya boy Appleton that you think plays CORRECT 8-ball and you and billy get together and lets have an exhibition 8-ball match.... The man in his prime versus an old broken down 57 year old man that doesnt even know how to play 8-ball.... Money talks and bs walks.... Please Billy backup your words if this goes to the next level, although I'm sure it won't. I dont have the money to stake efren,,, but I would sure like to watch him learn how to play 8ball CORRECTLY.... Maybe he'd get lucky,,,, who knows???????

Lets start by giving the Bs a breack. Eferine is not a broken down player. He shootsas good as the top players. And his position and execution is great.

So you can give the Bs a pass. Thier are 3 players that I seen play at the IPT and they played better then Eferine.

And Appelton to me is clearly a better player. And when players have a lot off ability and are great. The better player does not have too win.

And thier are Americans and Germans. That can beat him too. They might not win.

But they are in his slass and above him in all the shooting games not one pocket.

And I will give you the Germans or whatever nationality they are.

And the 3 players are Mikon Immonon Ralf Suka and Thurstan Hommand.

And thier are 3 or more philipinos in that class. Or dont they count because they are philapinos.

And even in other countries like China and Russia. And Eferen still shoots as staright as ever. The player that was thier with Efren.

His game has gotten weacker. And thats Parica. And He beat Eferine more times playing nine ball then Efern beat him.

And I no without a dought nine ball was Eferns best game.

And dont tell me abot a game rotation you might go into 100 pool rooms in America and never see a rotation game.

And if Shane keeps improveing and learning one pocket. He could be better then Eferen was. And playing nine ball and ten ball. I would bet on Shane. .

And Even both off them in thier prime. Because Howe good shane breacks. And shoots off the rail. And he is still learning.

And I belive he will get better. I seen him play one pocket. And they say he cant play.

He made less mistakes then all the champions. What does that tell you. It tells me a lot.

And he will play anybody. Anything. And he loves too gamble. Its always hard too say who is the best. When you have meny great players.

And even Eral has the ability too be the best. If he wants too lear to get thier.

And he plays meny other games good too. And he always shot great. All he needed too do was improve his knowledg and he would have been number one.

And thier will be new and young players coming up. And people will say the same thing about them.

Shane is the player I would pick. And he was the player I wanted too coach.

Too play Alex even one pocket. But it didnt come off.

Give all the great players credit. Thier are a lot off them all over the world.

And they dont get the publizity that Eferine gets. Because he has been doing it for a long time.

Just Like Mizrack use too get all the publizity. And Eferen would have had his hands full in Mizrzcks Prime. In all around pool games.

And since he is gone nobody even talks about him any more. And Boddy Hall is my favorite player.

And in thier prime anybody could have won.

 

[Island Drive]

Efren tho, has the greatest mental game, put any player NOW, from anywhere, have them play him every style of pool game and take each win as one point as see whos ahead.

Banks
3 cushion
14.1
nine ball
ten ball
15 rotation
snooker
8ball
one hole

 

[wincardona]

Lets start by giving the Bs a breack. Eferine is not a broken down player. He shootsas good as the top players. And his position and execution is great.

So you can give the Bs a pass. Thier are 3 players that I seen play at the IPT and they played better then Eferine.

And Appelton to me is clearly a better player. And when players have a lot off ability and are great. The better player does not have too win.

And thier are Americans and Germans. That can beat him too. They might not win.

But they are in his slass and above him in all the shooting games not one pocket.

And I will give you the Germans or whatever nationality they are.

And the 3 players are Mikon Immonon Ralf Suka and Thurstan Hommand.

And thier are 3 or more philipinos in that class. Or dont they count because they are philapinos.

And even in other countries like China and Russia. And Eferen still shoots as staright as ever. The player that was thier with Efren.

His game has gotten weacker. And thats Parica. And He beat Eferine more times playing nine ball then Efern beat him.

And I no without a dought nine ball was Eferns best game.

And dont tell me abot a game rotation you might go into 100 pool rooms in America and never see a rotation game.

And if Shane keeps improveing and learning one pocket. He could be better then Eferen was. And playing nine ball and ten ball. I would bet on Shane. .

And Even both off them in thier prime. Because Howe good shane breacks. And shoots off the rail. And he is still learning.

And I belive he will get better. I seen him play one pocket. And they say he cant play.

He made less mistakes then all the champions. What does that tell you. It tells me a lot.

And he will play anybody. Anything. And he loves too gamble. Its always hard too say who is the best. When you have meny great players.

And even Eral has the ability too be the best. If he wants too lear to get thier.

And he plays meny other games good too. And he always shot great. All he needed too do was improve his knowledg and he would have been number one.

And thier will be new and young players coming up. And people will say the same thing about them.

Shane is the player I would pick. And he was the player I wanted too coach.

Too play Alex even one pocket. But it didnt come off.

Give all the great players credit. Thier are a lot off them all over the world.

And they dont get the publizity that Eferine gets. Because he has been doing it for a long time.

Just Like Mizrack use too get all the publizity. And Eferen would have had his hands full in Mizrzcks Prime. In all around pool games.

And since he is gone nobody even talks about him any more. And Boddy Hall is my favorite player.

And in thier prime anybody could have won.

Artie, why do you insist on feeling that you know what Reyes best game is? How do you determine that, what you believe? And why do you make statements that are not true and put them in print? Like when you say that Parica has beaten Reyes more times playing 9 ball than Reyes has beaten him.

You were in Las Vegas gambling the 20 years that Reyes was showcasing his skills, in all the games that he played. I judge what a players best game is by how many tournaments that player has entered playing that game and how many tournaments that player has won. There is an exact percentage of tournaments won in 8 ball 9 ball 10 ball and one pocket, that Reyes has entered. Reye's percentage is ridiculously high in both 8 ball and one pocket. His win % is average against the best players in 9 and 10 ball, making his best games 8 ball and one pocket. Does that make sense to you?

There has never been any player that played in tournaments that has a high a win percentage as Reyes playing 8 ball, and one pocket. It's not even remotely close. Thats how you judge what a players best game is. You compare his results against the best players in the world and based off of his win percentage, that will determine what game or games he excels in against the other worlds best players.

Reye's best game was never 9 ball, because the break is too much of a factor in determining who beats who. That's why playing any rotation game, rotation was his best game. The break playing rotation is minuscule in comparison to the break in 9 ball, in terms of gaining an advantage.

Reye's all around game today at age 57 is considerably less than his all around game was 20 years ago. Just because he can still compete against the worlds best and do well should not be a measuring stick on how much his skills has or hasn't diminished. It should be a testament of how great a player he actually is.

Trust me, i'm a doctor And a man that know Reyes very well.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

Artie, why do you insist on feeling that you know what Reyes best game is? How do you determine that, what you believe? And why do you make statements that are not true and put them in print? Like when you say that Parica has beaten Reyes more times playing 9 ball than Reyes has beaten him.

You were in Las Vegas gambling the 20 years that Reyes was showcasing his skills, in all the games that he played. I judge what a players best game is by how many tournaments that player has entered playing that game and how many tournaments that player has won. There is an exact percentage of tournaments won in 8 ball 9 ball 10 ball and one pocket, that Reyes has entered. Reye's percentage is ridiculously high in both 8 ball and one pocket. His win % is average against the best players in 9 and 10 ball, making his best games 8 ball and one pocket. Does that make sense to you?

There has never been any player that played in tournaments that has a high a win percentage as Reyes playing 8 ball, and one pocket. It's not even remotely close. Thats how you judge what a players best game is. You compare his results against the best players in the world and based off of his win percentage, that will determine what game or games he excels in against the other worlds best players.

Reye's best game was never 9 ball, because the break is too much of a factor in determining who beats who. That's why playing any rotation game, rotation was his best game. The break playing rotation is minuscule in comparison to the break in 9 ball, in terms of gaining an advantage.

Reye's all around game today at age 57 is considerably less than his all around game was 20 years ago. Just because he can still compete against the worlds best and do well should not be a measuring stick on how much his skills has or hasn't diminished. It should be a testament of how great a player he actually is.

Trust me, i'm a doctor And a man that know Reyes very well.

Billy I.

Reye's is a very humble man and doesn't ever brag on himself in public. I have known Reyes on a personal level since he first came into the United States. We have grown to become very friendly with one another, I would like to say that we are good friends, but I don't have the right to say that, even though I believe we are. At times we sit down together and talk, and I bring up things in the form of a question and pick his brain. I also ask him how he thinks about his and other players games. He is very open when we talk and shares things with me that you would never hear him say in public. He tells me about his personal battles with Parica, and other great players and in his humble condescending way ...if there is such a thing...

Reyes is the Elvis Presley of the Phillippines, he is a celebrity in his country. It's not Parica or Bustamante, or Orcullo, or any other great player that country has produced today or before Reyes time. That is also a testament of how great a player he is.

Many American players ask me why i'm so high on Reye's game and my answer is , I don't have blinders on when I watch pool being played.

Billy I.

 

[Greyghost]

I thought this was a cool shot, two frames that were caught right between camera angle changes. Beautiful to watch is something I feel. The grace and delicacy of the art of his pool stroke is another.
View attachment 3076

look see he is one with the table.....lol no wonder why he plays so well

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Reye's is a very humble man and doesn't ever brag on himself in public. I have known Reyes on a personal level since he first came into the United States. We have grown to become very friendly with one another, I would like to say that we are good friends, but I don't have the right to say that, even though I believe we are. At times we sit down together and talk, and I bring up things in the form of a question and pick his brain. I also ask him how he thinks about his and other players games. He is very open when we talk and shares things with me that you would never hear him say in public. He tells me about his personal battles with Parica, and other great players and in his humble condescending way ...if there is such a thing...

Reyes is the Elvis Presley of the Phillippines, he is a celebrity in his country. It's not Parica or Bustamante, or Orcullo, or any other great player that country has produced today or before Reyes time. That is also a testament of how great a player he is.

Many American players ask me why i'm so high on Reye's game and my answer is , I don't have blinders on when I watch pool being played.

Billy I.

Thier are a lot off great humble players. Efren is very himble and super respectfull. And a classy man.

WhenI somebody says something that I agree with. I will say ir . I do not only pick one side off a person.

Lother lassiter was very humble and nice too. And maeny other great players.

We both agree that ERen is a very nice man and very humble.

So we go on to the next step. And we both no that you no Eferen way petter personaly.

Because we didnt even no each other. When we were both playing.

And we might as well say this too . Since we are talking about being nice and caracter.

And that is he is very honest. And thats very good for a pool player too be.

Eferen may be a hero in splrts like Duran or Clementie. But not a Elves. More like Duran.

I said and agree that Eferen is a great player. THat was never the topick.

And You have exceptionaly respect for his game. Because off howe he played you.

And too feel the way you do about him. Does not help you in a game playing him.

Because you are already defeating yoursef before you play. And I have seen this with other great players playing against each other.

And they never play thier game.Because the have already defeated themselves mentaly.

And with fighters is showes up real strong too. But I will go back too what you said.

Well I do not make statments rhat are not true. Thats not me . Its very raer that I make up something.

To me its very simple if I sont no something. I keep my mouth shut.

And Parica has beaten Efern more times in tournements when they played Nine ball . Then Efern has beaten him.

And I have said this meny times. On onepocket .orc. And I am saying it again. Parica has beaten Efern more times playing nine ball in toutnements then he has beaten Parica.

I seen Efern play enough too no his game. And as far as when he won the tournements that he won.

WE have too look at who played. And who he beat.

Harold Worst quite playing three coushion and started plating pool. Because he won every tournement. And thier was no real compatiton for him.

If he would have played 16 oe 15 years before that time. He would have had a hard time winning one tournement.

It makes a big difference who you play. AS far as the tournements go. Efern came at the perfect time. When all these tournements started.

And I eould say he played in more off those tournements. Then any other good player back in that time.

And in the next 20 years you will see other players. Winning and playing more tournements then Efern.

THe way you judge what a players best game is.by wis win percentage is completly wrong.

A player can do the worst in his best game. Because off the compatition.

And Even today. THe nine ball and ten ball the compatition is way better then any other pool game.

And Eferns best game is Nine ball and shooting. THats is his best game and strength.

And today they have more and better nineball and tenball players. Then they had 10 or 20 years ago.

And I sure would bet on Eferm to win a onepocket tournement. Over a nine ball or ten ball tournement.

Because the players play better and can do more today playing nine ball and 10 ball.

Efern was winning nine ball tournemets when he couldnt even play one pocket.

And too say that one pocket is his better game. Is a joke and redicoulous.

He is a shooter and a position player. And his shots playing one pocket are not as good as the one pocket players today.

Efern wins because his shooting and his control. Not because off his knowledge.

And if he played Ronnie in his prime what would you want Efern to play him. Nine ball or onepocket.

And even Eddy Kelly. Or corn bread or bugs or squarale. Or jersy Red Or hopkins.

Or Scott Or Chohan. Its as clear as a bell. ITs nine ball is his best game. Without a dought. And if you ask Efern himself .

What game does he think he playes better Nineball or one pocket. I would say he will say nineball.

Because nineball is his best game over onepocket.

And Thier are hardley any eightball tournements on 4 and a half by nines. And 5 by tens. Thier all on bar tables.

Excepte for a few tournements. And the Ipt. And If Eferen plays appalton. Eight ball. You can bet on your man Efern. Im going with rhe player who knowes howe too plat the game.

Against the player with the reputation. And the Philopino hero.

Just Like Raymond Culimans is in Belguim. And the goverment even pays him too play.

Nine ball is Eferns best game. Especialy in his prime. When people get older it shifts thee other way.

Could you Imagine Ronnie playing nine ball today. Or me. It would be a joke.

And Efern shooting hasant slipet much at all. I go by what I see. And when a player doest miss any shots.

I dont see how he slipet. His shooting is almost as good as ever. But tell he starte missing balls.

He woll still be the same strong player.

And his win percentag mite be higher playing eight ball and one pocket for a lot off different reasons.

One is he probabley played in more nine ball tournements. Then Onepocket and eight ball put together.

And nine ball has the tougher field over thee other two games. Its not even close. And the more tournements he plays in. The worse his avarage will get.

And if he ever does slip. He might never win another nineball or 10 ball tournement.

Because of the compation. And I would take Eferine against the greatest players playing nine ball way over playing them one pocket.

And it sounds real goo if people are guliasble enough to go for the percentage story.

Efern is a shooter and thats his best game. And his best skill. And when you look for a doctor make sure his operation percentage is better. Then thee other doctors.

I like giving advice too doctors and shrinks.

And Eferine is still Efern and his games are still strong.

If you want me too let you no when he is slipping. I will let you no.

So we can bet all the people who still will bet on him because off his name.

And Efern is one off the greatest players in life. And Elves would be all shook up. If he herd you compaierd him too Eferen.

Because Elves was and is the king. And to todays music in rap. I dont think they would pock him being number one.

Or as good as todays musicians. But that too is just a opinion.

And all we have ie opinions and Ifs.

And I think you should go and see a doctor. And get a check up froom the neck up.

 

[Banks]

With his pocketing ability, ball control and natural eye for strategy, I could see how he could dominate in 8 and 1p. 9b is a lot in the break. If Efren's best game was 9b and the competition was so close, it sounds like it isn't a very tough game at the higher levels, considering the way he was able to dominate at the other two.