joyner /cooney game 4

[lll]

I think instead I woud just four-rail the 10 (14?) away like this -- straight ahead firm stop shot.

freddy are you talking about this shot???
steves shot post#122
http://onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=73406&postcount=122

 

[SJDinPHX]

I am slowly getting the feeling that nobody is really analyzing these positions very deeply. All, one-shot-at-a-timer's. Win the game or lose it on the next shot. No method. No plan. Very little patience for long range strategy.
Absolutely true, >(insert picture below here)< ..would be the only one capable of the ultimate move, with perfect patience and strategy.


The 1pkt savant________ still managed to call my 2 foot bunt, "risky." Quote:... (but for me, a kick bank, in that spot, is way to risky)...Even if the balls wound up ideally as I depicted them in post #144,
I thought 'almost' everyone agreed on that ???


post # 144 is me.
Thats why it was refered to, Mr. >(insert picture below)< So everyone would know who came up with such a perfect [sic] move. Lets please try and keep up sir.


The reverse english kick bank choice is a little too brutal even for ____ to endorse it, much as he would like to nut-hug the Dr. over into his camp.
Dear >(see picture below)< You are a little off here on the "nut-hugging"...I am sure Dr. Bill would concur...he would be the "hugger" in this spot...I would be the "huggee"....However, I may consider being the "hugger" of Booth's jewel's...So far his choices have made more sense than >(insert pic)<...or the good doctor.

...


RBL, Sorry for the repeat,...It's still my fave pic, of >(you know who)<..(sans beard, of course)..

View attachment 3428

 

[lll]

well it seems joyner was trying to 4 rail the stripe out of there.
problem was he hit a perfect 3 rails into the side pocket
and the cue ball didnt stick as much as i assume he wanted it to
like this

 

[lll]

after it spotted he laft jack the bank and he made it

 

[lll]

dennis has a weii diagram of the final sequence of shots starting from the 3 balls on the spot
this is from dennis thread in 2009
thanks dennis
[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4IADX4LAEI4NADp2PHNf4dADX4dHNA4gAEI4gAOk3gEQr4iADp4iFqx2kHNf3kAsK3kJUP@4IHNA3LEQr4NFqx3PJUP@4IHNA3LEQr4NFqx3PJUP4dHNA4dbOH2dagQ2dSVr3kJUP4kEsH1kRli1kbPR@2ISVr3LEQr4NFqx1PbPR3gEQr3gbOQ4gUfi4gbKH4gaEA1kbPR3kBnj3kKCj3kLOf@2ISVr4LaEA4NFqx3PLOf4gaEA4gcAF4gSjm3gasM1geGE3kLOf4kWyr4kbaU4kTNj@2ISVr4LALW4NFqx4PTNj@2ISVr4LALW4NFqx4PTNj4iFqx3ibQs4icxs4kTNj4kILu3kTer@2ISVr4LALW4Ncxs3PTer@[/CUETABLE]

 

[wincardona]

...


RBL, Sorry for the repeat,...It's still my fave pic, of >(you know who)<..(sans beard, of course)..

View attachment 3428

thats what he deserves for shooting a shot that he could not win or strengthen his position with, he could only lose, and thats what happened.

Dick, it isnt that I disagreed with yours and Joyners choice, but if there was that much of a problem in controlling the cue ball, maybe, just maybe he should of looked else where. But I do see the strength in the shot if hit well.

I really cant understand why he just didnt just bannk the ball long two cushions with ijnside english and played from there?

Dr; Billy I.

 

[petie]

Larry Freddies shot is a non productive shot, he says that what ever his opponent does he's going to have a shot. He's smoking something real strong to believe that. All the next player needs to do is lightly slide off the stripe and reposition the cue ball by Joyners pocket. From there it's going to be an uptable game.

I'm shooting at my pocket in some way, or i'm leaving the balls down table and i'm going up table with the cue ball. There is no way that i'm staying down table with the cue ball to allow my opponent to force an up table game.

From this position with me needing 3 balls i'm gambling, and if I lose on my next shot, so be it. With the balls up table i'm at least a 3 or 4 to 1 underdog.

The only shot that I would shoot other than an agressive shot would be to bank the stripe to my side of the table by cutting it with INSIDE english and send the cue ball to the bottom rail and the object ball to the side rail on my side 1 1/2 dia. up from my pocket.That way Cooney doesn't have a bank for his pocket and maybe i'll be able to create a better position on my next turn at the table.

Need to go to sleep so I can take an early flight to France. Good night all, or should I say have a nice day? BYE BYE

Billy I.

Bon voyage, mon ami.

 

[NH Steve]

Freddy's nudge is startin' to look real good

 

[petie]

Freddy's nudge is startin' to look real good

I always knew that was my shot. I didn't say so because there was no shortage of commentary but I could execute it and Cooney couldn't get out on the next shot.

 

[petie]

...


RBL, Sorry for the repeat,...It's still my fave pic, of >(you know who)<..(sans beard, of course)..

View attachment 3428

What would you do without Freddie? He's your life.

 

[SJDinPHX]

thats what he deserves for shooting a shot that he could not win or strengthen his position with, he could only lose, and thats what happened.

Dick, it isnt that I disagreed with yours and Joyners choice, but if there was that much of a problem in controlling the cue ball, maybe, just maybe he should of looked else where. But I do see the strength in the shot if hit well.

I really cant understand why he just didnt just bannk the ball long two cushions with ijnside english and played from there?

Dr; Billy I.

I don't know what happened Billy, but I think you know, I would bet serious coin, that (even now) I could shoot that same shot, and never let the cue ball get away like Cliff did...That is why, if you remember, in post #134.....I advocated the same shot as Steves, but with high kill, instead of stop english. Cliff must have gotten a little kiss, to let his cue ball get away like that. I'm sure he didn't mean to leave Jack where he did.

I guess Jack was just meant to win that game. Even though he did try to lose it, more than once.

 

[lll]

I always knew that was my shot. I didn't say so because there was no shortage of commentary but I could execute it and Cooney couldn't get out on the next shot.

can you be a monday morning quaterback on tuesday????

 

[fred bentivegna]

What!

What!

thats what he deserves for shooting a shot that he could not win or strengthen his position with, he could only lose, and thats what happened. We certainly agree on that!

Dick, it isnt that I disagreed with yours and Joyners choice, but if there was that much of a problem in controlling the cue ball, maybe, just maybe he should of looked else where. But I do see the strength in the shot if hit well. What!

I really cant understand why he just didnt just bank the ball long two cushions with inside english and played from there? Another stiff.


Dr Billy I.

"It isnt that you disagreed with the Duck's and Joyner's choice??!!" What! That f'king shot lost him the game!!! Why so sympathetic? You both certainly had no problem disagreeing with my SIMPLE choice of rolling up under the ball, without ever confronting my reasons why, and a realistic appraisal of why not. You'al knocked that as if I was suggesting a four rail masse. And then y'all (B Stroud & Cardone) give a plug to banking the ball 2 rails with reverse english over to Joyners side where Mickey Mouse's friend Goofy would know enough to easily shoot that ball away by crossing it or banking it back over to Jacks side. (and if you mis-hit it a little, leave Jack a very makeable bank)

I exposed a very powerful one pocket strategy of forcing your oppo to have a limited option of only being able to shoot off of one ball. No one apparently paid any attn to that. It seems most everyone is afraid to open their mouths because maybe they concede that good players are able to automatically think better than they do. Common sense is common sense.

Although Vapros had no problem challenging me as to whether a bank could go or not. I noticed however, there has been no further discussion of the challenge I put out there to shoot trick bank shots with me. You may recall, Dr Bill, that you and I tried out this one about 40 years ago in Bensingers. I certainly remember. http://dvdpreviewclips.blogspot.com/2008/02/nicky-vachs-shot-clilp.html

I get the feeling that these shot discussions have turned political, just like most of real life. Shot appraisals are based on personalities and favorites rather that genuine introspection.

Not to say that my 2 shot selections are perfect options. But one thing is for sure, they are certainly not options up for ridicule. I provided 2 options that could be executed with the butt of the cue.
So far the only person who noticed that it was ridiculous to call my first option with the 3 balls, "risky" was Cowboy Dennis. No one else supported that opinion.
What has gone unnoticed so far is that these exercises are not really very objective --as they are supposed to be. SJD carries his Flame war into it. Anybody really think SJD has even remotely considered any option that I have suggested?

That is the main reason I usually dont participate in these discussions. I am trying to help and some others are just looking to jerk me off. If no one is concerned that I am considering withdrawing my opinions totally, opinions that are held with high regard apparently everywhere else but on this forum, thats ok with me too. If y'll just want to have fun on the forum, thats fine too, me, I take this shit seriously.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Hoisted on his own petard...

Hoisted on his own petard...

Some SJD quotes:

...And I still totally agree, Steve,(he is talking about the 4 railer that lost the game on the next shot) (but for me, a kick bank, in that spot, is way to risky)...Even if the balls wound up ideally as (insert name here) depicted them in post #144, ...Jack still has a ton of options. Like what?

I fail to see where he (Cliff) is gaining ANY advantage by such a passive, non-productive duck. My shot Whereas, if he just 4 railed it out of there, the ball would at least be on his side of the table, and out of the kitchen, in case he ever gets another decent shot to win this game... Which I could safely say, playing me, or the next 50 players below me...he ain't gonna get....Just think about the next 50 players above me...even worse odds..

Hey, this is more fun than 'flaming'...If, as AB has said, (at least 40,000 times) you explain your reasoning behind the shot.. (Your reasoning couldnt get the Pope off from a traffic ticket)

The correct, and the only shot I see here...
is Steves shot. I would shoot it just like he did, same speed...except, I would use high RH force follow, and kill the ball on the side rail, by Joyner's pocket, being careful to not over play, the high english, as it as it could possibly hug the rail and scratch...Any other shot looks too risky for me... There's that word again. My two foot bunt is very "risky."




Are you going to start another "apology" thread?

Beard

 

[petie]

can you be a monday morning quaterback on tuesday????

Larry
We are all Monday morning quarterbacking if you've noticed. As to whether I'm fibbing or not, you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

 

[petie]

"It isnt that you disagreed with the Duck's and Joyner's choice??!!" What! That f'king shot lost him the game!!! Why so sympathetic? You both certainly had no problem disagreeing with my SIMPLE choice of rolling up under the ball, without ever confronting my reasons why, and a realistic appraisal of why not. You'al knocked that as if I was suggesting a four rail masse. And then y'all (B Stroud & Cardone) give a plug to banking the ball 2 rails with reverse english over to Joyners side where Mickey Mouse's friend Goofy would know enough to easily shoot that ball away by crossing it or banking it back over to Jacks side. (and if you mis-hit it a little, leave Jack a very makeable bank)

I exposed a very powerful one pocket strategy of forcing your oppo to have a limited option of only being able to shoot off of one ball. No one apparently paid any attn to that. It seems most everyone is afraid to open their mouths because maybe they concede that good players are able to automatically think better than they do. Common sense is common sense.

Although Vapros had no problem challenging me as to whether a bank could go or not. I noticed however, there has been no further discussion of the challenge I put out there to shoot trick bank shots with me. You may recall, Dr Bill, that you and I tried out this one about 40 years ago in Bensingers. I certainly remember. http://dvdpreviewclips.blogspot.com/2008/02/nicky-vachs-shot-clilp.html

I get the feeling that these shot discussions have turned political, just like most of real life. Shot appraisals are based on personalities and favorites rather that genuine introspection.

Not to say that my 2 shot selections are perfect options. But one thing is for sure, they are certainly not options up for ridicule. I provided 2 options that could be executed with the butt of the cue.
So far the only person who noticed that it was ridiculous to call my first option with the 3 balls, "risky" was Cowboy Dennis. No one else supported that opinion.
What has gone unnoticed so far is that these exercises are not really very objective --as they are supposed to be. SJD carries his Flame war into it. Anybody really think SJD has even remotely considered any option that I have suggested?

That is the main reason I usually dont participate in these discussions. I am trying to help and some others are just looking to jerk me off. If no one is concerned that I am considering withdrawing my opinions totally, opinions that are held with high regard apparently everywhere else but on this forum, thats ok with me too. If y'll just want to have fun on the forum, thats fine too, me, I take this shit seriously.

Beard

Freddie,

Please don't withdraw. Most of us would miss you. I would. I would also miss Dick if he withdrew but I sincerely wish you both would just stop it with the incessent and, I think, pathological flame war. It doesn't matter who started it. It won't be resolved by further discussion on this board (I have deduced this from experience gained in two divorces), and just refusing to participate will eventually kill it. You might have to sustain a few unwarrented attacks and Dick might have to let a few paranoid defenses go unnoticed but eventually, you will both tire of this sick game. You BOTH have unique insites and this board would be much poorer without them. Please do not leave. Just ignore eachother for awhile until this bad blood is consumed by mutual respect. Call eachother privately once in a while and talk.

This is my shot selection for the game of life.

Pete Saxton

 

[SJDinPHX]

=fred


So far the only person who noticed that it was ridiculous to call my first option with the 3 balls, "risky" was Cowboy Dennis.
Thats understandable...He is a "snooker 1P specialist"... The shot 'might' have some merit on a snooker table...

No one else supported that opinion...
Thats because everybody agreed, it was the dead wrong shot on ANY pool table

What has gone unnoticed so far is that these exercises are not really very objective --as they are supposed to be. SJD carries his Flame war into it. Anybody really think SJD has even remotely considered any option that I have suggested?
Try letting up on the name calling, and insults, and you just might see a change. Can't you see, you are the one perpetuating it..? Do I have to go through some recent posts, to prove my point ?

That is the main reason I usually dont participate in these discussions. I am trying to help and some others are just looking to jerk me off. If no one is concerned that I am considering withdrawing my opinions totally, opinions that are held with high regard apparently everywhere else but on this forum, thats ok with me too. If y'll just want to have fun on the forum, thats fine too, me, I take this shit seriously.... Obviously, and you also take it very, very personal !!!

Beard

While I admit, I do not take it as seriously as you...If I don't like a particular shot, I am not afraid to express my opinion, especially not for fear of ridicule, regardless of who the poster is..likewise, if I like a shot, I will defend it.

That does not make me "always right"...It just means that I don't go ballistic when I am percieved as being, maybe, just possibly, here it comes, the word you hate most..."WRONG"

Well so much for trying to be a good citizen, and participate in shot discussions...It will always be a personal war of words with you...I don't need it either.

 

[lll]

Freddie,

Please don't withdraw. Most of us would miss you. I would. I would also miss Dick if he withdrew but I sincerely wish you both would just stop it with the incessent and, I think, pathological flame war. It doesn't matter who started it. It won't be resolved by further discussion on this board (I have deduced this from experience gained in two divorces), and just refusing to participate will eventually kill it. You might have to sustain a few unwarrented attacks and Dick might have to let a few paranoid defenses go unnoticed but eventually, you will both tire of this sick game. You BOTH have unique insites and this board would be much poorer without them. Please do not leave. Just ignore eachother for awhile until this bad blood is consumed by mutual respect. Call eachother privately once in a while and talk.

This is my shot selection for the game of life.

Pete Saxton

if you can make peace between them
next stop palestinians and jews
seriously we all would like the bickering to stay in the members only section
if it has to go on at all
i agree both members have alot to contribute and losing them would hurt many of us who have alot to learn
Pete this is not monday morning quaterbacking
i agree completely with your shot selection on this one

 

[Skin]

"I exposed a very powerful one pocket strategy of forcing your oppo to have a limited option of only being able to shoot off of one ball. No one apparently paid any attn to that. It seems most everyone is afraid to open their mouths because maybe they concede that good players are able to automatically think better than they do. Common sense is common sense.

Beard

Ahem....

http://onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=73461&postcount=138

Skin

 

[Jimmy B]

"It isnt that you disagreed with the Duck's and Joyner's choice??!!" What! That f'king shot lost him the game!!! Why so sympathetic? You both certainly had no problem disagreeing with my SIMPLE choice of rolling up under the ball, without ever confronting my reasons why, and a realistic appraisal of why not. You'al knocked that as if I was suggesting a four rail masse. And then y'all (B Stroud & Cardone) give a plug to banking the ball 2 rails with reverse english over to Joyners side where Mickey Mouse's friend Goofy would know enough to easily shoot that ball away by crossing it or banking it back over to Jacks side. (and if you mis-hit it a little, leave Jack a very makeable bank)

I exposed a very powerful one pocket strategy of forcing your oppo to have a limited option of only being able to shoot off of one ball. No one apparently paid any attn to that. It seems most everyone is afraid to open their mouths because maybe they concede that good players are able to automatically think better than they do. Common sense is common sense.

Although Vapros had no problem challenging me as to whether a bank could go or not. I noticed however, there has been no further discussion of the challenge I put out there to shoot trick bank shots with me. You may recall, Dr Bill, that you and I tried out this one about 40 years ago in Bensingers. I certainly remember. http://dvdpreviewclips.blogspot.com/2008/02/nicky-vachs-shot-clilp.html

I get the feeling that these shot discussions have turned political, just like most of real life. Shot appraisals are based on personalities and favorites rather that genuine introspection.

Not to say that my 2 shot selections are perfect options. But one thing is for sure, they are certainly not options up for ridicule. I provided 2 options that could be executed with the butt of the cue.
So far the only person who noticed that it was ridiculous to call my first option with the 3 balls, "risky" was Cowboy Dennis. No one else supported that opinion.
What has gone unnoticed so far is that these exercises are not really very objective --as they are supposed to be. SJD carries his Flame war into it. Anybody really think SJD has even remotely considered any option that I have suggested?

That is the main reason I usually dont participate in these discussions. I am trying to help and some others are just looking to jerk me off. If no one is concerned that I am considering withdrawing my opinions totally, opinions that are held with high regard apparently everywhere else but on this forum, thats ok with me too. If y'll just want to have fun on the forum, thats fine too, me, I take this shit seriously.

Beard

I told you that I would choose your shot with the three balls on the spot no matter what anyone said. Don't sweat it buddy. Cooney wasn't even trying to win this ****ing match anyway. Your other shot was fine also.. I am about ready to break out my new Skip Weston and put some sobs to hurting. I'm getting tuned up right now. In fact I am gonna watch power one pocket with Scott that Lenny sent me. Then I'm going to watch that bank match where you totally dominated some fool and then I am going to click on Celine Dion and listern to her perform River Deep and I Can't Help Falling and after being inspired by 3 real Professional Made People whose credentials can never be denied, I may pick up Red Card and zig zag the nation a few times. We'll ass rape some fools till they start lovin us........