Ronnie missing in Action at Bennsinger's

[Cowboy Dennis]

I feel the need to respond since the great Billy Smith directed it at me. The truth is I don't really know how good Artie was. I only heard minimal info about him back in those days. He was known as a good one handed player and tough to beat at One Pocket and Eight Ball. That was the line on Artie, circa 1970's.

I can tell you one thing with certainty - if Artie had made a One Pocket game with Ronnie playing one handed even, he would have lost Bensingers! As far as the game they did make, 11-8 and Ronnie got all the Breaks, that is a tough one to handicap. I'm sure it would have been one very long session because Ronnie was a long player too. I can understand Ronnie's reluctance to play an all night session when he was entered in the U.S. Open 14.1 Championships. Ronnie took these events seriously and I don't know him to ever miss a match. He also liked to perform in front of an audience.

My final comment is simply this - Ronnie is RONNIE! He made a name for himself by being the best One Pocket player of his era. And rightfully so. He played and beat all the other top name players, from Kelly on down. And he did it by traveling all across the country from poolroom to poolroom. There is a good reason why he is a legendary figure in the pool world. Can you honestly say that about Artie? I'd like to hear some stories about Artie's exploits on the road, not just at Bensingers.

I don't hold that against Artie. He may have been one very smart pool player, who liked making money more than being famous. I know he fooled a lot of people in California. Ronnie was high profile, Artie wasn't. Who would have won between them at that particular game in Bensingers, I don't know. On a neutral court I like Ronnie in that game because giving him all the breaks was a deadly trap to fall into. With Ronnie the break may have been worth FOUR balls!

As far as the weighted cue ball story is concerned, that's hokum. Ronnie liked to play with a Blue Circle, and he carried one with him. He considered it the best cue ball, and why not. P.S. He did have a special weighted shaft for one handed games, that much I will admit.

Here's another Golden Oldie.

Dennis

 

[Billy Jackets]

i have a question? if artie you beleived you could beat ronnie why would you not agree to play even? instead of 11-8 and the break?

If you beat Ronnie Allen out of $4000.00 playing even, you would never get a game you could win big at again.
This guy wasn't playing for glory, he wanted the cash , and he got it.
The penalty, is that you can't come back 40 years later and say I was the best ever.
You can say it, but it won't fly.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Finally, a consensus....Goddamn right !!!!

This was one of the better threads...ever.

Since it's a particularly boring night. Never let it be said that I didn't do my best to liven things up.

RBL

 

[bstroud]

The few times I was in Bennsingers it was a total dump. Meucci was working on cues in a small room and his kids were playing around on the filthy floor. You had to walk over a bunch of high and dead junkies just to get in the place. Why bother?

I didn't know anyone there and NO one ever came over and asked me to play anything.

I watched Billy I. giving Mexican Johnny the eight. Johnny would not take the same game from me.

WHERE was Artie? In Fantasy land? Perhaps he was too young to be a good player then or was he ever a good player anywhere else BUT Bennsingers?
I have never heard of him beating anyone outside of Bennsingers.

Ronnie would have robbed him playing one pocket. Perhaps a guy in a dirty tee shirt just didn't have any money?

Bill S.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

You had to walk over a bunch of high and dead junkies just to get in the place. You got a problem wid dat???Why bother?

I didn't know anyone there and NO one ever came over and asked me to play anything.Maybe rigor mortis wasn't setting in on you yet.

I watched Billy I. giving Mexican Johnny the eight. Johnny would not take the same game from me.Did you ask him to play?

WHERE was Artie? In Fantasy land? Perhaps he was too young to be a good player then or was he ever a good player anywhere else BUT Bennsingers?
I have never heard of him beating anyone outside of Bennsingers.One of his homies is on DVD saying that AB was a one-table player.

Ronnie would have robbed him playing one pocket. Perhaps a guy in a dirty tee shirt just didn't have any money?Or maybe just not a washing machine?

Bill S.

Jeez Bill, you make the place sound like such a dump.

Dennis

 

[Billy Jackets]

Phil, I hate to admit how well you hit it on the head. That we would root for Ronnie is secret information tho. You're snitching on me, telling how much I love all the dirtbags in pool. Just cause Whitey came to see me and stayed a couple days at the 4 B's Club with his dogs and Windy, doesnt really prove that I was fascinated by him. ---Phil, remember he would have the dogs lay under the table and they would fart, and growl, and shark when Whitey gave them the office when the other guy was shooting?

Beard

Hahahahaha, did he whisper Tom at them ?

 

[fred bentivegna]

Bensinger visit

Bensinger visit

...hmm let me see, Billy Incardona and Mexican Johnny didnt want any part of you in Bensingers? Especially on any of those twelve 5 x 10s? Johnny didnt want the 8 ball? Funny, I remember him asking Jimmy Moore to play even. Johnny didnt seem too intimidated by Jersey Red either, down there. Plus if memory serves me right, and it does, Johnny played Eddie Kelly even onepocket on the 5 x 10. Table eleven. Same table Kelly took a ball and the break from Bugs.

Right about Bensinger being a dump, and Meucci living with his family in that horrible side room. Right about Artie and the filthy tee shirt. Wrong about him being a broke. Artie always had a big bankroll. Always. Wrong about him never beating anybody outside of there.
As far as nobody wanting to give you any action down there would qualify you as the world's only human pool player to get a pass on being asked to play in the history of the room. Even Mosconi got challenged to play 9 ball for money by Joe Sebastian.
Excuse me. :sorry There was one other guy who got a pass from being hustled, and that was Harold Worst. The main reason was that nobody knew he played pool.
Oh yeah, all the other 3 cushion champs that came in there other than Worst got action, including Allen Gilbert (Al Gold) and Boston Shorty.

Let me prepare a quick list of the players that got even action in Bensingers -- and lost! (save Mosconi who ran out the only set he played)
I have already mentioned, Mosconi, Jersey Red, and Eddie Kelly. How about off the top of my head, Little Al Romero, Chi Chi, Bob Ogburn, Tony Fargo, Patch Eye, Donnie Anderson, Danny Jones, Gene Nagy, Cecil Tugwell, Cannonball, Marvin Henderson, Boston Shorty, Little David Howard ( I robbed him playing 9 ball!) Baby Face, Jim Rempe (9 ball with Canadian Pete), Dallas West, Don Rose, Sailor Stellman, Babe Thompson, George Brunt, Grady Mathews, Cole Dickson, Jimmy Reid, James Youngblood Brown, Jimmy Mataya, Joel Ross from Philly, Kenny Romburg, One Eyed Jesse Webb, Steve Cook, Willie Munson, Al Miller, Bunny Rogoff, Diamond Bill Cress, Chris Eddie McGeehan, Sonny Springer, and Bucktooth. All went under the knife at Bensingers.

I personally played 90% of the above.

Beard

 

[bstroud]

Freddy,

All I can tell you is what happened.

I was only in Bensingers twice and never found a game.

I played at the Golden Eight Ball and when Johnny came in there I offered him the 8 and he took a pass. I had already robbed him playing one pocket in Indianapolis.

When I heard he was playing Billy at Bensingers I went there so if he won I could play him too.

Looked like a long battle so I left. Never did find out who won?

Funny, in all the pool rooms I was in all over the country I never saw Artie once. I guess he didn't travel much.

Bill S.

 

[wincardona]

Bill S.


Originally Posted by bstroud


Dennis

As the great Danny Diliberto would say..."Your a sick puppy"

Billy I.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

As the great Danny Diliberto would say..."Your a sick puppy"

Billy I.

Well Bill, I wouldn't put too much stock in what DD says. He also says that banks that go long went short, banks that go short went long and he still calls the pink ball the 6 ball.

But you are right.

Dennis

 

[wincardona]

...hmm let me see, Billy Incardona and Mexican Johnny didnt want any part of you in Bensingers? Especially on any of those twelve 5 x 10s? Johnny didnt want the 8 ball? Funny, I remember him asking Jimmy Moore to play even. Johnny didnt seem too intimidated by Jersey Red either, down there. Plus if memory serves me right, and it does, Johnny played Eddie Kelly even onepocket on the 5 x 10. Table eleven. Same table Kelly took a ball and the break from Bugs.

Right about Bensinger being a dump, and Meucci living with his family in that horrible side room. Right about Artie and the filthy tee shirt. Wrong about him being a broke. Artie always had a big bankroll. Always. Wrong about him never beating anybody outside of there.
As far as nobody wanting to give you any action down there would qualify you as the world's only human pool player to get a pass on being asked to play in the history of the room. Even Mosconi got challenged to play 9 ball for money by Joe Sebastian.
Excuse me. :sorry There was one other guy who got a pass from being hustled, and that was Harold Worst. The main reason was that nobody knew he played pool.
Oh yeah, all the other 3 cushion champs that came in there other than Worst got action, including Allen Gilbert (Al Gold) and Boston Shorty.

Let me prepare a quick list of the players that got even action in Bensingers -- and lost! (save Mosconi who ran out the only set he played)
I have already mentioned, Mosconi, Jersey Red, and Eddie Kelly. How about off the top of my head, Little Al Romero, Chi Chi, Bob Ogburn, Tony Fargo, Patch Eye, Donnie Anderson, Danny Jones, Gene Nagy, Cecil Tugwell, Cannonball, Marvin Henderson, Boston Shorty, Little David Howard ( I robbed him playing 9 ball!) Baby Face, Jim Rempe (9 ball with Canadian Pete), Dallas West, Don Rose, Sailor Stellman, Babe Thompson, George Brunt, Grady Mathews, Cole Dickson, Jimmy Reid, James Youngblood Brown, Jimmy Mataya, Joel Ross from Philly, Kenny Romburg, One Eyed Jesse Webb, Steve Cook, Willie Munson, Al Miller, Bunny Rogoff, Diamond Bill Cress, Chris Eddie McGeehan, Sonny Springer, and Bucktooth. All went under the knife at Bensingers.

I personally played 90% of the above.

Beard

There have been numerous books about the road back in the day, as well as stories that have been told about the pecking order, other than that we don't have much more to go off of.:sorry There really aren't many old timers left that can support, or rebut many of the claims that have been made. Understanding this whomever is interested will have to piece it together based off of information from your sources, hopefully the're reliable and knowledgeable.

As far as i'm concerned I know who I played and when I played them, and I have my opinion on how well they played. Which obviously may not be what others think.:sorry So here we go again.:frus

Billy I.

 

[androd]

As far as i'm concerned I know who I played and when I played them, and I have my opinion on how well they played. Which obviously may not be what others think.:sorry So here we go again.:frus

Billy I.

Yeah, but do you have a photographic memory.
Rod.
P.S. I do, but I'm not to clear on yesterday.

 

[bstroud]

Freddy,

You seem most concerned about who you beat in the past.

I am more concerned about who I can beat NOW. I don't know yet but
hope to find out soon.

I can see that pool has changed. I can only hope I can change with it.

Bill S.

 

[petie]

Amen.The only way this could get any better would be if someone named Minnesota Fats came on top of this.I wish I could remember who it was when in the winter of 66-67 a dark-haired white guy[alone] came into St Paul Rec from the road and ran a few racks hoping for someone with money to play.No body was close to this guys speed.Oh well the past is prologue as Shakespeare would say.Thanks again,Bob

Danny Jones? Mike Massey? George Rood, maybe there for a dog show?

 

[fred bentivegna]

Keep us informed

Keep us informed

Freddy,

You seem most concerned about who you beat in the past.

I am more concerned about who I can beat NOW. I don't know yet but
hope to find out soon.

I can see that pool has changed. I can only hope I can change with it.

Bill S.

Be sure and keep us abreast of your future "Dance Card." I dont think you are going to have any trouble getting into action at Derby City.

Beard

 

[bstroud]

Thanks Freddy,

At 70 1/2 I wouldn't think so either.

I'm still working at it 8 hours a day but I don't get to play anyone very often.

Bill S.

 

[usblues]

no dogs.....

no dogs.....

.....just the wife.You talkin to me?[Deniro].Speaking of memory,what cost more in 65,a gallon of gas or cigarettes?Cheers men,Jack

 

[Jimmy B]

.....just the wife.You talkin to me?[Deniro].Speaking of memory,what cost more in 65,a gallon of gas or cigarettes?Cheers men,Jack

I was 14 then and already hustling and selling. I ran An Amoco station at that time and had a vending machine that sold packs of cigs at thirty cents per pack but you could get them quite a bit cheaper if you bought them by the carton at a supermarket or the wholesale house that anyone could walk in and buy from. Gas was 32.9 I think for reg and the premium 99 octane white gas was a few cents higher, but we would have a gas war or something and the gas would get down to 19.9 for awhile.. Big old candy bars out of the machine were a nickel and soft drinks were a dime if you didnt take the bottle with you. If you did it was two cent more. Two dollars for a real good car wash complete inside and out. Also when you bought a tank of gas, we washed the front and back windows, checked the oil and water level, and would sweep out your car with a little straw whisk broom and check the air in your tires if requested. Man did I hate those customers that wanted it all...............

 

[bstroud]

I was 14 then and already hustling and selling. I ran An Amoco station at that time and had a vending machine that sold packs of cigs at thirty cents per pack but you could get them quite a bit cheaper if you bought them by the carton at a supermarket or the wholesale house that anyone could walk in and buy from. Gas was 32.9 I think for reg and the premium 99 octane white gas was a few cents higher, but we would have a gas war or something and the gas would get down to 19.9 for awhile.. Big old candy bars out of the machine were a nickel and soft drinks were a dime if you didnt take the bottle with you. If you did it was two cent more. Two dollars for a real good car wash complete inside and out. Also when you bought a tank of gas, we washed the front and back windows, checked the oil and water level, and would sweep out your car with a little straw whisk broom and check the air in your tires if requested. Man did I hate those customers that wanted it all...............

I remember those times as well and when I was hustling pool people were playing 100.00 9 ball. Now you're lucky to find a game for 10.00.

Bill S.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I remember those times as well and when I was hustling pool people were playing 100.00 9 ball. Now you're lucky to find a game for 10.00.

Bill S.

Wow Bill, you must have travelled in the upper circle's...I sure don't remember much $100 nine ball in those days,...and I'm 77 1/4....

PS..I do remember a lot of $50 one pocket though..