Him vs. You #2

[fred bentivegna]

C'mon Freddy, all the "playing the score" shit goes out the window on this one shot? Tell the truth now and we'll forgive your past indiscretions.

RBL

I may have created a false image of me being some kind of a locked-down percentage player. The actual truth is that when I was in my prime I was noted instead for being a "give-up" player. Famous for taking "moon-shots." Just ask Artie and Cardone how "careful" I played. It was only later when skills diminished that I played the dead-nuts type game. I always knew how to do it, I just didnt like to. However, there are still residual "sell-out" shots that I still maintain in my present repertoire. Shots that I really worked on mastering. The draw spot shot and the draw the head ball into the pocket being two of such.
However, I finally had to abandon one of my specialty shots that I learned from Gene Skinner, and had used to great success up until lately.

(1pkt)The one where your oppo knocks off the game ball in the back corner pocket and then spots it up with the cueball hanging in the pkt. Because I really learned how to shoot it, I would back cut that into my pocket under the most extreme conditions. Strange tables, big money, didnt much matter. My eyes have finally betrayed me to the point where I can no longer shoot it.

So yes, I would even today, shoot the "draw the head ball in" even if I had a 7 to 6 lead. The odds of my either making it or hitting it good are just too good in my favor.

Beard

 

[jtompilot]

The late Willie Jopling showed that shot -- pretty similar to the way Cliff sometimes shoots it. I am not sure exactly what situations Cliff would shoot it this way though. Damn One Pocket is SO situational, lol.

Willie also said, "This is the shot that Harry Crabtree intended to trap Weenie Beenie with. It is an uncommon shot for a very common One Pocket situation. You need to use inside english to float the cue ball three rails and up the table."

I shot that shot from the head rail once and made it. It was a fun $20 shot

 

[androd]

I have seen cliff shoot this situation with inside and go around 3 rails. Something like this....???

somebody please correct my diagram, I remember not liking this shot in any situation so I didn't put it solidly in the memory reserve, and now, ironically enough, i'm curious as to exactly how he hits this. It is def closer to that corner on the first rail with the cb, but im too lazy to fix the diagram.

Tyler,
Cliff almost always shoots it this way. It takes a lot of practice to learn where to put the CB. If you don't get it right, there's a kiss at the 3rd rail with the head ball and CB. If you master it, it's a very powerful shot.
Rod.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I may have created a false image of me being some kind of a locked-down percentage player. The actual truth is that when I was in my prime I was noted instead for being a "give-up" player. Famous for taking "moon-shots." Just ask Artie and Cardone how "careful" I played. It was only later when skills diminished that I played the dead-nuts type game. I always knew how to do it, I just didnt like to. However, there are still residual "sell-out" shots that I still maintain in my present repertoire. Shots that I really worked on mastering. The draw spot shot and the draw the head ball into the pocket being two of such.


So yes, I would even today, shoot the "draw the head ball in" even if I had a 7 to 6 lead. The odds of my either making it or hitting it good are just too good in my favor.

Beard

Well, at least I know now why Ike shot it like that. He made the headball playing Earl at the 2012 DCC.

In my opinion he hit it extremely poorly. The cueball almost hit the one ball as it came off the footrail.

 

[Miller]

The late Willie Jopling showed that shot -- pretty similar to the way Cliff sometimes shoots it. I am not sure exactly what situations Cliff would shoot it this way though. Damn One Pocket is SO situational, lol.

Willie also said, "This is the shot that Harry Crabtree intended to trap Weenie Beenie with. It is an uncommon shot for a very common One Pocket situation. You need to use inside english to float the cue ball three rails and up the table."

this is similar to the shot i was asking about. i like it from the other side of the kitchen with med/high left "punch" stroke about 1/2 or 1/3 hit on the head ball.

 

[sidepocketkid]

You are up 7-6 and have ball-in-hand. What would you do?


View attachment 6150

bank throw the one.

 

[tylerdurden]

The late Willie Jopling showed that shot -- pretty similar to the way Cliff sometimes shoots it. I am not sure exactly what situations Cliff would shoot it this way though. Damn One Pocket is SO situational, lol.

Willie also said, "This is the shot that Harry Crabtree intended to trap Weenie Beenie with. It is an uncommon shot for a very common One Pocket situation. You need to use inside english to float the cue ball three rails and up the table."

Cool. Thanks for the info/history/diagram. I didn't realize the rear ball went that far, but yes that makes sense now. I knew there was something about the shot I was forgetting. I believe I saw cliff shoot this in this situation of this thread, needing one. So, as androd says, sounds like he shoots it all the time, and must be a very workable shot if he does. I'm curious to look into it more now.

 

[wincardona]

This is a very interesting situation which I have a logical explanation of the choices, and why.

If two top players are competing against one another I being the shooter will for certain play the head ball and the two rail bank on the back ball. I understand how to hit this shot and believe that i'll win more games against a top player shooting the shot, as opposed to playing the safety.

If a top player or a fair player is playing a weaker player then i'm strongly suggesting against playing the aggressive shot, figuring that a weak player is much more of a dog to get both balls against a better player, than a top player would be against another player, (any player)

If two weaker players are playing and the shooter doesn't truly understand how to hit the shot, I would suggest that he play safe.

Dr. Bill

 

[backplaying]

This is a very interesting situation which I have a logical explanation of the choices, and why.

If two top players are competing against one another I being the shooter will for certain play the head ball and the two rail bank on the back ball. I understand how to hit this shot and believe that i'll win more games against a top player shooting the shot, as opposed to playing the safety.

If a top player or a fair player is playing a weaker player then i'm strongly suggesting against playing the aggressive shot, figuring that a weak player is much more of a dog to get both balls against a better player, than a top player would be against another player, (any player)

If two weaker players are playing and the shooter doesn't truly understand how to hit the shot, I would suggest that he play safe.

Dr. Bill

I'm fairly new at 1 hole and will shoot this shot everytime. To make the head ball I have to use a drag draw, but most of the time if I don't make one of them I have them in a bad spot.

 

[Jimmy B]

I'm fairly new at 1 hole and will shoot this shot everytime. To make the head ball I have to use a drag draw, but most of the time if I don't make one of them I have them in a bad spot.

Are you sure you use drag draw for this shot?? I always used what I re to drag draw to keep the cue ball from traveling as much as it ordinarily would after contact with the object ball, but if it's working, then by all means. I find myself agreeing with Dr. Bill on a very high percentage of shot choices. Does this mean I'm getting good?? I hope he doesn't Frankie Laine me. Once an impersonator impressionist type guy did his act with Laine in the audience and sung one of Laines song. I think it was Jezebel. After the show he had a chance to meet and talk to Frankie for a minute or two and he asked the great vocalist what he thought of his imitation of him. Frankie just smiled and said "Well one of us ain't no damn good'

 

[gulfportdoc]

Seems to me that Cliff shoots the "Jopling" shot with the CB going four rails, with the head rail being the 4th rail. I've seen him shoot the shot several times, but I'm not positive about the 4th rail.

It's the best of both worlds really: the second ball can go in the shooter's pocket, while the 1-ball goes safe.

If the CB does wind up on the head rail, that would probably preclude any type of return cross-corner on the 1-ball.

I do recall Cardone saying last year that he would shoot the okie-doke shot under any circumstances...

Doc

 

[wincardona]

Seems to me that Cliff shoots the "Jopling" shot with the CB going four rails, with the head rail being the 4th rail. I've seen him shoot the shot several times, but I'm not positive about the 4th rail.

It's the best of both worlds really: the second ball can go in the shooter's pocket, while the 1-ball goes safe.

If the CB does wind up on the head rail, that would probably preclude any type of return cross-corner on the 1-ball.

I do recall Cardone saying last year that he would shoot the okie-doke shot under any circumstances...

Doc

I'm sorry:sorry Mr. Arthur but I never said that I would shoot this shot under any circumstances That's absurd, you're starting to sound like The Ghost. Let me expand on my already explanantion of reasons why I or others should or shouldn't shoot it.

If you're playing a top player, you being an average player and up, should always shoot the shot needing only one to his two. But if a top player needs three then you should play safe and try to reposition the balls where you become a bigger favorite. For what it's worth any time your opponent needs three or more to your one you should play safe (any caliber of opponent) But we should always be thinking aggressively when playing top players when confronted with this shot. That being said and understood, it's in our best interest to develop a good understanding of the shot. I will try to explain how I shoot this shot and how I believe you will get the best results if you follow my advice. ......Position the cue ball 3" to 5" to either the right or left of the head spot (depending on your pocket) and then try to draw the cue ball back to the center diamond on the head rail. With this focus you will rarely scratch in either the side or corner pockets, and you will get the results you're looking for a high percentage of the time. Practice the shot the way I explained it and your game will elevate along with your confidence.

Dr. Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

I'm sorry:sorry Mr. Arthur but I never said that I would shoot this shot under any circumstances That's absurd, you're starting to sound like The Ghost. Let me expand on my already explanantion of reasons why I or others should or shouldn't shoot it.

If you're playing a top player, you being an average player and up, should always shoot the shot needing only one to his two. But if a top player needs three then you should play safe and try to reposition the balls where you become a bigger favorite. For what it's worth any time your opponent needs three or more to your one you should play safe (any caliber of opponent) But we should always be thinking aggressively when playing top players when confronted with this shot. That being said and understood, it's in our best interest to develop a good understanding of the shot. I will try to explain how I shoot this shot and how I believe you will get the best results if you follow my advice. ......Position the cue ball 3" to 5" to either the right or left of the head spot (depending on your pocket) and then try to draw the cue ball back to the center diamond on the head rail. With this focus you will rarely scratch in either the side or corner pockets, and you will get the results you're looking for a high percentage of the time. Practice the shot the way I explained it and your game will elevate along with your confidence.

Dr. Bill

Dr Bill, I normally am somewhat adverse to agreeing with you (as you are with me, of course). However, the point you are trying to make is important enough that I cant bring myself to ignore it, and I will even attempt to elucidate further.

As I said before, particular shots in certain certain layouts and shot situations are not as important as the concept needed to address the situation itself. Situations come up all the time. Particular ball layouts do not. What Dr Bill is trying to say is important, and it is irrespective of that particular ball layout, is that who you are playing oftentimes comes into the equation of what your shot choice should be.
Playing a good player means your opportunities will be greatly lessened. Therefore, if a crack in the door shows up, you had better seriously consider being a little more daring. You may not get another opportunity or even another turn at the table. Playing a weaker player there is not such a necessity to gamble and take risky chances. You have your opponents own inequities going for you. Rather than not giving you another turn, he may blow up and give you the game on the next shot instead.

Beard

Dr Bill learned this only after a lifetime of beating suckers.:lol

 

[gulfportdoc]

I'm sorry:sorry Mr. Arthur but I never said that I would shoot this shot under any circumstances That's absurd, you're starting to sound like The Ghost. Let me expand on my already explanantion of reasons why I or others should or shouldn't shoot it.

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showp...74&postcount=5

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Mr. Arthur I never said that I would shoot this shot under any circumstances, you're starting to sound like The Ghost.


Dr. Bill

"Mr. Arthur" would only be "sounding like the Ghost" - if his words are correct/true...:heh

 

[lll]

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showp...74&postcount=5

cant get link to work:frus
get "webpage cannot be found"

 

[wincardona]

cant get link to work:frus
get "webpage cannot be found"

Of course you can't get the link to work, it's fictitious.:lol

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

"Mr. Arthur" would only be "sounding like the Ghost" - if his words are correct/true...:heh

If you're talking about the spelling of his words you would be correct, but his implication is sounding more like something you would say.

Dr. Bill

 

[gulfportdoc]

Of course you can't get the link to work, it's fictitious.:lol

Dr. Bill

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=24474&postcount=5

"I always shoot this shot, needing both balls and also needing only 1 ball. This shot is to strong for me to pass up at this juncture. But then again there are many players that will play ball position rather than go for the win."

Billy, don't you remember when you and I were in Galveston, when you set up the okie doke 5 times before you made either ball?

Doc

 

[wincardona]

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=24474&postcount=5

"I always shoot this shot, needing both balls and also needing only 1 ball. This shot is to strong for me to pass up at this juncture. But then again there are many players that will play ball position rather than go for the win."

Billy, don't you remember when you and I were in Galveston, when you set up the okie doke 5 times before you made either ball?

Doc

Yes I said that, but there are many more circumstances than the ones that I mentioned, correct? And I do always shoot this shot needing one or two balls to my opponents one ball, with the exception of when i'm playing a weak player.

You said that I said that I would shoot this shot under any circumstance, and that's not what I said, is it? You are sounding more like the Ghost, like I mentioned. But I forgive you because you're not as stubborn or as much in denial as he is.

Dr. Bill