S. Cook vs. R. Martinez 1994 Roanoke

[Cowboy Dennis]

I thought I'd show a partial crowd shot since some of you guys sometimes know some of them.



Here's Cook breaking for the game. It looks like Horseface Harry looking on.(what do you think Fred & Petie?).



It's Rafael's shot from here. What would you do? Yes, what would you do?

 

[sappo]

It looks like you could combo/bank the 15ball to your side and lay the cueball ontop of the stack. Keith

 

[wincardona]

It looks like you could combo/bank the 15ball to your side and lay the cueball ontop of the stack. Keith

Keith,that's a possible option but one that leaves a return safety off the balls in the stack to put you on the other side of the stack. ( shooting off the balls and hitting the side rail, then back into the bad side of the stack.

There are three other options that I can see, one being much better, if available.
Another option would be to shoot off the 1 ball and go two cushions up table positioning the cue ball near the top left corner, and the 1 ball on your side. Not really a productive shot, but one that might buy a little time. The return option you leave may put you in more trouble. ( shooting off the 4 ball and positioning the cue ball by the diamond near the side pocket)

The other option providing it's even available would be to bank the 5 ball to your side of the table like you were playing to make it, make sure you don't contact the 15 ball for the reason that the 15 ball will be a ball that will snooker your opponent from making the 10-13 ball combination, or making the 13 ball in the event you strike the 10 ball with the 5 ball. This shot requires excellent control with the cue ball. It's a med soft draw to the rail above the side pocket then to the top rail and finally ending up a diamond short of the side pocket near the rail. This shot will force your opponent to deal with the banked 5 ball, as opposed to shooting a shot either to improve his position, or put you back in the stack like the return shot you may leave with your option. There's no guarantee he won't be able to put you in a tough spot off your shot, but he'll have a tougher task doing it.

The other option would be to kick two cushions under the 13 ball. This option requires good speed with the kick, because of the possible scratch that may be there off the 13 ball. Touchy shot. The return shot off of this option would probably find you back in the stack.


This break looks to be one that you'll have to grind to get out of, with this understanding imo the best option would be the 5 ball bank, if available, if not I would play your option shooting the combo on the 15 ball and play from there. With this option you can always kick at the 13 ball if you find yourself back in the stack,and also with this option you'll have the 15 ball on your side for something for him to worry about later on.

Dr. Bill

 

[vapros]

The two balls by Cook's pocket will be a problem until they are gone. I don't think you could hit them right now with the cue ball, but you can drive the 4 ball in that direction and freeze the cb on the 6 and 8. Looks like you might take out at least the 10 ball. Even if you whiff both balls, at worst you have moved the 4 ball into play on your side and left the cb in a pretty good spot. Your next shot won't be any worse unless Cook takes the first foul. Not much reason for him to do that. That's my shot.

Or you (I) could kick safe off the head rail.

 

[sappo]

Keith,that's a possible option but one that leaves a return safety off the balls in the stack to put you on the other side of the stack. ( shooting off the balls and hitting the side rail, then back into the bad side of the stack.

There are three other options that I can see, one being much better, if available.
Another option would be to shoot off the 1 ball and go two cushions up table positioning the cue ball near the top left corner, and the 1 ball on your side. Not really a productive shot, but one that might buy a little time. The return option you leave may put you in more trouble. ( shooting off the 4 ball and positioning the cue ball by the diamond near the side pocket)

The other option providing it's even available would be to bank the 5 ball to your side of the table like you were playing to make it, make sure you don't contact the 15 ball for the reason that the 15 ball will be a ball that will snooker your opponent from making the 10-13 ball combination, or making the 13 ball in the event you strike the 10 ball with the 5 ball. This shot requires excellent control with the cue ball. It's a med soft draw to the rail above the side pocket then to the top rail and finally ending up a diamond short of the side pocket near the rail. This shot will force your opponent to deal with the banked 5 ball, as opposed to shooting a shot either to improve his position, or put you back in the stack like the return shot you may leave with your option. There's no guarantee he won't be able to put you in a tough spot off your shot, but he'll have a tougher task doing it.

The other option would be to kick two cushions under the 13 ball. This option requires good speed with the kick, because of the possible scratch that may be there off the 13 ball. Touchy shot. The return shot off of this option would probably find you back in the stack.


This break looks to be one that you'll have to grind to get out of, with this understanding imo the best option would be the 5 ball bank, if available, if not I would play your option shooting the combo on the 15 ball and play from there. With this option you can always kick at the 13 ball if you find yourself back in the stack,and also with this option you'll have the 15 ball on your side for something for him to worry about later on.

Dr. Bill

Bill, I think if you play option 1 he will just softly move the 5 ball toward his pocket and deposit the cue ball on top of the stack.

I dont like option 3 because of the big scratch possibility. Also I think if you did execute the kick without scratching he can easily put you back in trouble. If the cue ball ends up to the right of 13 ball he can play safe off the jn ball and if the cue ball ends up below the 13 ball he can easily put you on the side of the stack.

Option 2 is a possibility but it requires a very good touch or you could sell out right there.

I think that the correct shot for me is still the combo-bank. Keith

 

[sappo]

The two balls by Cook's pocket will be a problem until they are gone. I don't think you could hit them right now with the cue ball, but you can drive the 2 ball in that direction and freeze the cb on the 6 and 8. Looks like you might take out at least the 10 ball. Even if you whiff both balls, at worst you have moved the 6 ball into play on your side and left the cb in a pretty good spot. Your next shot won't be any worse unless Cook takes the first foul. Not much reason for him to do that. That's my shot.

Or you (I) could kick safe off the head rail.

Hi Bill, the thing I dont like about your shot is leaving the cue ball on that side of the stack. Im sure Cook is going to move more balls toward his pocket and side and will probably put you in a worse situation from there. It would be great to move one of those balls but in my opinion not if the cue ball is left in that position. Keith

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Then on the other hand you could quit stalling and shoot that dead? 14-8-2 combination...

- Ghost


PS, Yeah, I know...it's probably not laying right, cuz Dennis wouldn't have posted up a shot choice thread with such an obvious answer.

 

[fred bentivegna]

I thought I'd show a partial crowd shot since some of you guys sometimes know some of them.

View attachment 6314

Here's Cook breaking for the game. It looks like Horseface Harry looking on.(what do you think Fred & Petie?).

View attachment 6315

It's Rafael's shot from here. What would you do? Yes, what would you do?

View attachment 6316

View attachment 6317

Which one is Horseface? With the hat?

Beard

Certainly not clear enough for me.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Other than the shots mentioned...two other shots...

If there's room to pass the 6 with the cueball...you play that previously mentioned 5-15 combination across to your side - but instead of stopping the cueball on top of the stack, you load up with maximum high right, and spin off the long rail, softly into the backside of the 13ball...

Or you could shoot the 2ball firmly straight ahead/slightly cutting it to the right - 2ball takes out the 10ball, maybe both balls with a little carom-luck - and you stick/stop the cueball, pretty safely, on the 8ball.

- Ghost

 

[wincardona]

Bill, I think if you play option 1 he will just softly move the 5 ball toward his pocket and deposit the cue ball on top of the stack.(That's possible providing he has the angle to do it. if so you will have the ability to possibly do something with the 15 ball. Plus you'll most likely be looking at an easier solution than the one that followed the break)

I dont like option 3 because of the big scratch possibility. Also I think if you did execute the kick without scratching he can easily put you back in trouble. If the cue ball ends up to the right of 13 ball he can play safe off the jn ball and if the cue ball ends up below the 13 ball he can easily put you on the side of the stack. ( You're correct, I addressed that in my last post. That option was the 3rd. or 4th. choice of the 4 options I mentioned.)

Option 2 is a possibility but it requires a very good touch or you could sell out right there. ( This imo is your best option, if available. The toughest to execute but worth the gamble if you like it)

I think that the correct shot for me is still the combo-bank. Keith

I like your choice if you do, like I keep mentioning, play your game and choose the shot that you feel most comfortable shooting, even if the option is a little weaker. Executing the 2nd. best option correctly is much better than choosing a better option if you think you may have a problem executing it. One of the most important things to remember when playing one pocket is..choosing options that you feel most comfortable shooting.. Which leads me to another very note worthy point, an axiom that is explained by using a chess analogy. "When you don't know what to do, move a pawn" That's as good as information that you can get to play winning one pocket. Keep it simple when you're not sure what to do, especially if you really don't know what to do. If you like the 5-15 ball combination as your choice, it's what I would advise you to shoot.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

Other than the shots mentioned...two other shots...

If there's room to pass the 6 with the cueball...you play that previously mentioned 5-15 combination across to your side - but instead of stopping the cueball on top of the stack, you load up with maximum high right, and spin off the long rail, softly into the backside of the 13ball...( I believe you're referring to the 3 ball passing the 3 ball safely, not the 6 ball. But yes if the angle allows you to execute that shot it would be the best option but I don't believe the angle for that shot is there, the way I look at the picture)

Or you could shoot the 2ball firmly straight ahead/slightly cutting it to the right - 2ball takes out the 10ball, maybe both balls with a little carom-luck - and you stick/stop the cueball, pretty safely, on the 8ball. (That option was brought up by Vapros, and yes it's a good option providing there's room for the 4 ball to navigate)
- Ghost

I believe you're starting to lose your ability to distinguish the colors of the balls, or maybe I am. Correct me if i'm wrong, did you call the 3 ball the 6 ball? And is it the 4 ball or 2 ball that you referred to in your last option? Dennis usually corrects us when we are having problems recognizing the colors of balls. I hope you get that eye problem fixed before I come to Chicago. Looks like you're choosing better options, now work on your eyes and you'll have a legitimate shot at me.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

Then on the other hand you could quit stalling and shoot that dead? 14-8-2 combination...

- Ghost


PS, Yeah, I know...it's probably not laying right, cuz Dennis wouldn't have posted up a shot choice thread with such an obvious answer.

You're really on a roll, I didn't see the possibility of the combination, you could be right. Always check the stack for dead balls before you send whitey up table. You're really playing well today. Are you sure you're not on a conference call with Freddie?

Dr. Bill

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost
Other than the shots mentioned...two other shots...

If there's room to pass the 6 with the cueball...you play that previously mentioned 5-15 combination across to your side - but instead of stopping the cueball on top of the stack, you load up with maximum high right, and spin off the long rail, softly into the backside of the 13ball...( I believe you're referring to the 3 ball passing the 3 ball safely, not the 6 ball. But yes if the angle allows you to execute that shot it would be the best option but I don't believe the angle for that shot is there, the way I look at the picture)

Or you could shoot the 2ball firmly straight ahead/slightly cutting it to the right - 2ball takes out the 10ball, maybe both balls with a little carom-luck - and you stick/stop the cueball, pretty safely, on the 8ball. (That option was brought up by Vapros, and yes it's a good option providing there's room for the 4 ball to navigate) My bad v-man, for sleeping your post.

I believe you're starting to lose your ability to distinguish the colors of the balls, or maybe I am. Correct me if i'm wrong, did you call the 3 ball the 6 ball? <<< I most certainly did, and I'm blaming it on this freaking heat wave that were having here - 2 weeks straight of humid 90-100 degree days - 101 degrees last Thursday, 97 today - it scrambles my brain, I can't think straight... And is it the 4 ball or 2 ball that you referred to in your last option? The heat got me on that ball color also... Dennis usually corrects us when we are having problems recognizing the colors of balls. I hope you get that eye problem fixed before I come to Chicago. Looks like you're choosing better options In One Pocket, I've never in my life chose anything but, better options...:heh... now work on your eyes and you'll have a legitimate shot at me.. That's ok, I'm happy taking the worst of it - it'll be more fun/satisfying outrunning the nuts......


Dr. Bill

- Ghost

 

[tylerdurden]

I wonder where that 4 is going if you blast into that 14-8. Sorry if I hijacked somebody's shot again

Edit: I see I hijacked ghost's shot. That is the first thing i'd look at here anyway, that is for sure.

 

[NH Steve]

I think I would cross the 1-ball and send whitey up table. It looks like anywhere in the left half of the table, at least Cook does not have a direct shot that goes, so I should get to the table at least one more trip My intent is to get far enough over that Cook can not shoot the stripe combination right in front of his hole.

I know it's not a strong shot but most of the other ideas seem a little haphazard for me. This looks simple enough.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I believe you're starting to lose your ability to distinguish the colors of the balls, or maybe I am. Correct me if i'm wrong, did you call the 3 ball the 6 ball? And is it the 4 ball or 2 ball that you referred to in your last option? Dennis usually corrects us when we are having problems recognizing the colors of balls. I hope you get that eye problem fixed before I come to Chicago. Looks like you're choosing better options, now work on your eyes and you'll have a legitimate shot at me.

Dr. Bill

You guys are incorrigible.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Which one is Horseface? With the hat?

Beard

Certainly not clear enough for me.

Yeah Freddy, the guy in the hat. After watching this a few times and seeing his mannerisms I can see that it is Harry. These older DVD's come out a little foggy and saving them in a screenshot always seems to add a little fuzziness around the edges. Oh well.

Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

...... Which leads me to another very note worthy point, an axiom that is explained by using a chess analogy. "When you don't know what to do, move a pawn" That's as good as information that you can get to play winning one pocket. Keep it simple when you're not sure what to do, especially if you really don't know what to do.....

Dr. Bill[/QUOTE]

That is amazing. That is the same exact advice I got from Marcel Camp in 1965.
He added to that, "You're just trying to buy some time." Did you steal that from Camp as I did? Or did you learn it from me?:lol:lol:lol

Beard

 

[bstroud]

I'm shooting the 4 ball and freezing on the 6. It's simple and effective.

Looks like you can move the balls by the pocket away.

Bill S.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

It's Rafael's shot from here. What would you do? Yes, what would you do?

There's a reason for everything and the reason I wrote this, highlighted "you" in red and wrote it twice is this: I don't know what Martinez did. That big long stroke of his lost control a little and he accidently fouled the cueball. He was definitely shooting the 5/11 in some manner but he's not hitting with anything low.