kiss or no kiss

[lll]

i posted this in the main forum also but thought posting it here would also be good
YOU ARE BANKING THE STRIPE CROSS CORNER
kiss or no kiss and why???
freddy has a method to use
grady had a method
what do you guys say
kiss or no kiss and what do you use as a guideline??

 

[tylerdurden]

Delete, i meant to post this in the main forum

 

[lll]

anyone who wants to comment here
please go to the main forum
thanks

 

[Big Jim]

Kiss

Kiss

Cue it low right, draw the cue ball near the pocket and out of the way of the stripe ball.

 

[Island Drive]

I'd bank the thirteen and catch the bottom of the lower striped ball for a carom to my hole, and lay whitey on the three.

 

[John Brumback]

If the table's playing short,I think he can beat this kiss with the cball coming up in front of the oball and maybe going into the stack.But if the table's playing long I don't think it goes without kissing.It looks very close to me but I could be wrong again. Playing one pocket you really can't afford to draw the cball here,imho.Is this one pocket or bank pool,I forgot again:sorry:lol John B.

 

[wincardona]

If the table's playing short,I think he can beat this kiss with the cball coming up in front of the oball and maybe going into the stack.But if the table's playing long I don't think it goes without kissing.It looks very close to me but I could be wrong again. Playing one pocket you really can't afford to draw the cball here,imho.Is this one pocket or bank pool,I forgot again:sorry:lol John B.

I like what you said about beating the kiss on a wet table, very insightful. Would it be true that just about every time whenever you're straight in (like in the picture) you can't beat the kiss going forward? If so then you need speed with the cue ball for it to get out of the way from the kiss, allowing the banked ball to pass under the cue ball. I can see why the wet table will help you, correct me if i'm wrong. The speed of the cue ball will increase coming off the rail, particularly on a wet table, is that correct? If the speed of the cue ball elevates what about the speed of the banked ball, doesn't it's speed increase? This is where i'm lost, if the speed of both the cue ball and the object ball increase (in proportion) why would the outcome be different than it would be "on a dry table"? Could it be that the cue ball travels a less distance? That would make some kind of sense to me, just a feel I have. I believe it has to have something to do with the amount of distance each ball needs to travel before entering the kiss area.

Just curious.

It's bank pool, but you mentioned drawing the ball for a reason. Don't the speed of the cue ball slow down and the speed of the object ball increase more, because of the more power in the shot? Would you then need to bank the ball at the deepest part of the rail and use low outside to beat the kiss? Keeping the object ball as low as possible, meaning less of a kissing area?


Really would like conformation so I can clearly understand the shot, thanks.


Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

I like what you said about beating the kiss on a wet table, very insightful. Would it be true that just about every time whenever you're straight in (like in the picture) you can't beat the kiss going forward? If so then you need speed with the cue ball for it to get out of the way from the kiss, allowing the banked ball to pass under the cue ball. I can see why the wet table will help you, correct me if i'm wrong. The speed of the cue ball will increase coming off the rail, particularly on a wet table, is that correct? If the speed of the cue ball elevates what about the speed of the banked ball, doesn't it's speed increase? This is where i'm lost, if the speed of both the cue ball and the object ball increase (in proportion) why would the outcome be different than it would be "on a dry table"? Could it be that the cue ball travels a less distance? That would make some kind of sense to me, just a feel I have. I believe it has to have something to do with the amount of distance each ball needs to travel before entering the kiss area.

Just curious.

It's bank pool, but you mentioned drawing the ball for a reason. Don't the speed of the cue ball slow down and the speed of the object ball increase more, because of the more power in the shot? Would you then need to bank the ball at the deepest part of the rail and use low outside to beat the kiss? Keeping the object ball as low as possible, meaning less of a kissing area?


Really would like conformation so I can clearly understand the shot, thanks.


Dr. Bill

John, I just think I snapped about why you can beat the kiss on a wet table and it has everything to do in what I said at the bottom of my other post.:lol You can afford to bank the ball to a deeper part of the rail and keep it as low as possible, so that the cue ball needs to travel less in the kissing area.

Dr. Bill

 

[John Brumback]

I like what you said about beating the kiss on a wet table, very insightful. Would it be true that just about every time whenever you're straight in (like in the picture) you can't beat the kiss going forward? If so then you need speed with the cue ball for it to get out of the way from the kiss, allowing the banked ball to pass under the cue ball. I can see why the wet table will help you, correct me if i'm wrong. The speed of the cue ball will increase coming off the rail, particularly on a wet table, is that correct? If the speed of the cue ball elevates what about the speed of the banked ball, doesn't it's speed increase? This is where i'm lost, if the speed of both the cue ball and the object ball increase (in proportion) why would the outcome be different than it would be "on a dry table"? Could it be that the cue ball travels a less distance? That would make some kind of sense to me, just a feel I have. I believe it has to have something to do with the amount of distance each ball needs to travel before entering the kiss area.

Just curious.

It's bank pool, but you mentioned drawing the ball for a reason. Don't the speed of the cue ball slow down and the speed of the object ball increase more, because of the more power in the shot? Would you then need to bank the ball at the deepest part of the rail and use low outside to beat the kiss? Keeping the object ball as low as possible, meaning less of a kissing area?


Really would like conformation so I can clearly understand the shot, thanks.


Dr. Bill

IMO on a wet table you will be able to shoot the oball down closer to the pocket and have it stiffin up therefore giving you more room and time to get the cball out of the way.Least that's what I'm thinking

I only mentioned about drawing the cball to remind people that this layout was really in a game of one pocket,so I don't think anyone would be drawing the cball here John B.

 

[lll]

when i started this thread it was to clear up some confusion i had about "rules" of when there is a kiss
as mentioned in the 1p thread this bank where the cue ball cannot go past the object ball into the pocket there would be a kiss if hit with inside english according to grady
freddys rule if they are lined up to the back of the pocket there is no kiss with a ROLLING cue ball
if they line up to the facing there is a kiss

 

[lll]

the subtleties of whether the table is wet or dry and the ability to vary the speeds of the object ball and cue ball determining what happens in the "kiss zone" shows why you guys are champions and have an understanding of how the balls behave at levels most of us will never know
until you let us peek into your minds and learn from your experiences and understandings
we are fortunate to have champions who let us peek in

 

[gulfportdoc]

I'm very familiar with wet equipment on Skeeter's Diamonds. And on this particular bank there's still no kiss, providing it's hit with medium or slow speed. Keep in mind, since the CB is brushing across the face of the OB, it does impart a little right spin onto it. But I'm pretty sure if the bank is hit harder then it would come up short. So in that case the bank could probably be made shooting it extra firm and long, which would shorten the angle on the wet table. One could then draw the CB away from the kiss. But in 1P the shot can be made at slower speed without a kiss on wet equipment.

Wet rails are a little springier, and a ball with give a slight hop off the rails when hit real firm or hard. It's especially evident in long table shots to the short rails.

Doc

 

[wincardona]

IMO on a wet table you will be able to shoot the oball down closer to the pocket and have it stiffin up therefore giving you more room and time to get the cball out of the way.Least that's what I'm thinking

I only mentioned about drawing the cball to remind people that this layout was really in a game of one pocket,so I don't think anyone would be drawing the cball here John B.

I was thinking the same, but does it help to hit deep on the rail with holding english? Outside english (holding english) will slow the cue ball up a little and to me that's a bad thing but it will spin away from the kiss, "sorta like trying to side step it".. True? Sometimes you need to give a little of something to get a little back of a few things, as was described in my last description of what I think is happening with the shot using low outside english and hitting deep on the rail with the object ball.

To me it seems a fair trade off to execute this shot in the way I described, even if you give up a little with slowing the cue ball up, you pick up by hitting deep on the rail with the object ball which will reduce the kissing area and you will also be spinning away from the kiss by buying a little extra time with the spin.At least that's the way I see it.

Dr. Bill