Him vs. You.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Artie B made a career out of guys shooting at One's and Done's. Every time they made one he would say, God bless you.

Beard

Freddy,

I can't picture AB playing Bankpool. The game is antithetical to everything he believes. I can see the words in his head; "Bankpool? You mean the object ball MUST hit a rail before it goes in a pocket? That's insane.".

Bad analogy in a Bankpool thread but I get the idea:sorry.

Dennis

 

[wincardona]

Some "World Class" bankers might shoot the 1 on someone else's cash but nobody on this site is a "World Class" banker(anymore) who bets his own cash except for Daulton and I'm sure he has better things to do than respond here.

I see nothing wrong with shooting the 2 in and leaving nothing for the guy to shoot. Leaving nothing is always a good strategy. Bankpool is ofttimes a fight for the 1st "good" shot, not the 1st shot. Nobody I ever played would shoot the 1 here unless they were behind in the score.

Dennis

there obviously isn't anything wrong with shooting the 2ball here, that's not my point or argument. My point is simply that there isn't a world class banker that I know. that wouldn't either shoot the 1ball or give it strong consideration. I myself would shoot the 1ball, I happen to think as long as you believe you're the favorite to get the first ball in situations like this one, then you have to shoot. And if any one doesn't think that a world class player is not the favorite to get the first ball from this position, you'll get broke. You may say what if he plays safe? is he the favorite to get the first ball? I would say that it looks like a 50/50 split, one way or the other. Getting the first ball from this position is worth shooting, providing you think you can. It would be different if your safety awarded you with an excellent chance of coming up with a shot, but it's certainly not in this position.:sorry Shooting the 1ball from this position looks like a viable option to me, for many.


Where's Brumback?
Dr. Bill

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

And if any one doesn't think that a world class player is not the favorite to get the first ball from this position, you'll get broke.
Dr. Bill

Bill,

When I look at these layouts I look at them as if I'm playing an equal player, not a world class player. That's the only way to look at it if I was gambling because I wouldn't be playing a world class player even. I'm not sure what a world class banker is anyway, the game is only played in two states for the most part.

Look at it from this view: If I was playing a very good banker(20 years ago) and receiving 5-4 and it was his shot do you think he'd shoot the 1 and risk selling out 2 or 3 balls if he missed? Betting his own money? If the game was a fair game to start with, I'd love to see him shoot the 1 straight-back. If he makes it he still doesn't win, more often than not he'll miss it and leave me a shot.

To each his own I guess.

Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

Freddy,

I can't picture AB playing Bankpool. The game is antithetical to everything he believes. I can see the words in his head; "Bankpool? You mean the object ball MUST hit a rail before it goes in a pocket? That's insane.".

Bad analogy in a Bankpool thread but I get the idea:sorry.

Dennis

The One and Done reference was of course, directed at Artie's One pocket strategy. My bank game with Artie was he goes to six.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

there obviously isn't anything wrong with shooting the 2ball here, that's not my point or argument. My point is simply that there isn't a world class banker that I know. that wouldn't either shoot the 1ball or give it strong consideration. I myself would shoot the 1ball, I happen to think as long as you believe you're the favorite to get the first ball in situations like this one, then you have to shoot. And if any one doesn't think that a world class player is not the favorite to get the first ball from this position, you'll get broke. You may say what if he plays safe? is he the favorite to get the first ball? I would say that it looks like a 50/50 split, one way or the other. Getting the first ball from this position is worth shooting, providing you think you can. It would be different if your safety awarded you with an excellent chance of coming up with a shot, but it's certainly not in this position.:sorry Shooting the 1ball from this position looks like a viable option to me, for many.


Where's Brumback?
Dr. Bill

My point, and I have apparently belabored it to little avail, is that the 2 ball safety should provide you with an excellent chance of coming up with a shot. Look at the layout from that point. Just what exactly is one to do from there? You cant go off of the 2 balls on the spot without probably leaving the 6 ball cross side. Shooting the six straight back is a stiff and anything else is going to leave your opponent CLOSE to a ball, an optimum place to make a bank -- or at the minimum an opportunity to execute another deadly safety.

Beard

 

[John Brumback]

Well It's too wet to plow or bushhog today,and I'm real bored.

If I was bettin my own.....................or just trying to win,
I would be running to the table to baby the two ball in and try to freeze the cball to the rail. I don't pass up many chances at a lock-up free safe.On top of that..they'er going to have to come back with a not so easy safe,too.

Wouldn't matter to me what the score is either. JB

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Well It's too wet to plow or bushhog today,and I'm real bored.

If I was bettin my own.....................or just trying to win,
I would be running to the table to baby the two ball in and try to freeze the cball to the rail. I don't pass up many chances at a lock-up free safe.On top of that..they'er going to have to come back with a not so easy safe,too.

Wouldn't matter to me what the score is either. JB

You found your sense of humor and your voice at the same time? I love it when a plan comes together.

P.S. What is bushhogging?

RBL

 

[John Brumback]

You found your sense of humor and your voice at the same time? I love it when a plan comes together.

P.S. What is bushhogging?

RBL

Dear "never been out of the stinkin city" breath.It's this big mower thing that you pull behind a tractor,(the one I use is a 15 ft wide Bat Wing) that you use to mow bushes and weeds and even small trees all over hills and around on the farm:frus.You ever been on an interstate highway and seen them people mowing the grass and weeds and bushes on the sides of the highway with a tractor pulling this mower thing..well dummy... that's bushhogging:lol What is this,a trick question or somtin or nother? JB

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dear "never been out of the stinkin city" breath.It's this big mower thing that you pull behind a tractor,(the one I use is a 15 ft wide Bat Wing) that you use to mow bushes and weeds and even small trees all over hills and around on the farm:frus.You ever been on an interstate highway and seen them people mowing the grass and weeds and bushes on the sides of the highway with a tractor pulling this mower thing..well dummy... that's bushhogging:lol What is this,a trick question or somtin or nother? JB

Interstate highway?

RBL

 

[wincardona]

Well It's too wet to plow or bushhog today,and I'm real bored.

If I was bettin my own.....................or just trying to win,
I would be running to the table to baby the two ball in and try to freeze the cball to the rail. I don't pass up many chances at a lock-up free safe.On top of that..they'er going to have to come back with a not so easy safe,too.

Wouldn't matter to me what the score is either. JB

Well that certainly surprised me, I can see that Freddie..Cowboy..and now Brumback need to sharpen up their gambling skills, or maybe I should start to evaluate situations differently. But point well taken, back to the one pocket forum.

Dr. Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

Well that certainly surprised me, I can see that Freddie..Cowboy..and now Brumback need to sharpen up their gambling skills, or maybe I should start to evaluate situations differently. But point well taken, back to the one pocket forum.

Dr. Bill

Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!:lol

Beard

 

[wincardona]

Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!:lol

Beard

Don't take what I said about you Cowboy, and Brumback as a concession to what I believe, we all can learn something. There are different ways people win, not that playing a safe controlled game isn't one of them, but also understanding the subtilties of knowing when the odds are in your favor is a key ingredient in the recipe of success. "my brother".

Dr. Bill

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

If I was bettin my own.....................or just trying to win,
I would be running to the table to baby the two ball in and try to freeze the cball to the rail. I don't pass up many chances at a lock-up free safe.On top of that..they'er going to have to come back with a not so easy safe,too.

Wouldn't matter to me what the score is either. JB

Well that certainly surprised me, I can see that Freddie..Cowboy..and now Brumback need to sharpen up their gambling skills, or maybe I should start to evaluate situations differently. But point well taken, back to the one pocket forum.

Dr. Bill

You're gettin' old Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

Don't take what I said about you Cowboy, and Brumback as a concession to what I believe, we all can learn something. But it certainly sounds like you didn't.There are different ways people win, not that playing a safe controlled game isn't one of them, but also understanding the subtilties of knowing when the odds are in your favor is a key ingredient in the recipe of success. "my brother".

Dr. Bill

Dennis, JB and I, quite understand those subtleties, that's why we would all roll in the 2 ball.

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis, JB and I, quite understand those subtleties, that's why we would all roll in the 2 ball.

Beard

Freddy,

You may want to reread post #53 carefully, I believe we are a pair, NOT a trio

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

understanding the subtilties of knowing when the odds are in your favor is a key ingredient in the recipe of success.

Dr. Bill

Much like AB thinking he was the only player ever to attempt to play "mistake free", (as if the rest of us were just trying to give our money away), you seem to think you are the only one who can understand the subtleties of figuring odds during a game.

You aren't.

Dennis

 

[wincardona]

Much like AB thinking he was the only player ever to attempt to play "mistake free", (as if the rest of us were just trying to give our money away), you seem to think you are the only one who can understand the subtleties of figuring odds during a game.

You aren't.

Dennis

I'm trying, i'm trying real hard to wake you guys up about the art of winning but there are a few that just don't want to get it, get it? I respect the opinion of all you guys but there is a fine line that separates players that play the percentages correctly and those that do things becauseit looks right. Yes the 2ball looks right and it is for some, but not for all. Once again i'll try to make it clear. If you think you can get the first ball, then the shot is a viable option. In this situation there are a lot of players that would be a favorite to get the first ball starting with the 1ball bank. Plus the weak safety with rolling in the 2ball isn't much of a shot, it allows your opponent to play an easy safety back at ya.

Dr. Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

I'm trying, i'm trying real hard to wake you guys up about the art of winning but there are a few that just don't want to get it, get it? I respect the opinion of all you guys but there is a fine line that separates players that play the percentages correctly and those that do things becauseit looks right. Yes the 2ball looks right and it is for some, but not for all. Once again i'll try to make it clear. If you think you can get the first ball, then the shot is a viable option. In this situation there are a lot of players that would be a favorite to get the first ball starting with the 1ball bank. Plus the weak safety with rolling in the 2ball isn't much of a shot, it allows your opponent to play an easy safety back at ya.

Dr. Bill

If leaving someone frozen to the rail is a "weak" safety, please explain what a strong safety would be.
Plus, if the return safety was "easy" then I would shoot at the one ball myself. However, I don't see an easy safety. Would you be so kind as to explain?

Beard

I am not dumb, or ignorantly lacking what to "really" do in this game. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the "subtleties" of bank pool. The few that could are all dead. Especially since I am recognized as the foremost authority on bank pool -- and that includes Red China where my book in translation has sold thousands of copies -- everywhere it seems, except the Onepocket.org bank pool forum.
My bank books and DVDs have sold approximately the same amounts for the last seven years.
My bank pool strategies are so strong that I took a good shortstop bank pool player, one or two balls under the top guns, that was 52 years old and had been playing for over 30 years, and turned him into a top notch bank champion in a couple of months. Jet Johnson. Someone who won the ring bank game against Shannon and Brian Gregg, even tho they were "buddy'd" up in the game, the first time he played to an audience. Someone who beat Truman Hogue at home and away.
And how do you think he did that? Did I teach him new bank shots that he hadnt learned in 30 years of playing? Or did I ingrain in him a bank strategy and concept? Somebody please explain it to me.

Beard

And lets not turn this into woofin or bragging. This is just defending what I know, because at age 72 it is most of what I have left.

 

[fred bentivegna]

I think now would be a good time to revisit a few earlier posts in this thread and the responses to them. I dont think the questions raised were covered adequately as it seemed the post got rolled over too quick. This more accurately addresses the notion of an "upper echelon winning strategy for a top gambler."


Beard:
I see, so what you and DuckBrain are saying is that it is often ok to take a low percentage shot -- where you can probably only get one -- and maybe not leave one -- in order to "intimidate" your opponent, and perhaps show your "mettle," right?

People that shoot at low percentage shots trying to get just one, do not now, and have never, intimidated me --and shouldnt intimidate anyone else. I like it when they do that. That is what I like to think of as, false bravado. Dudn't scare me at all. What I dont like is when they freeze me to a rail with no apparent safety and only a give-up to shoot at. People who keep me in trouble, that's what intimidates me -- and should intimidate anybody with any sense. That's not, as Dr Bill and SJD have intimated, cowardice, that's just good pool.

What does have a chance of intimidating me is when someone takes a lower percentage shot in the hopes of getting a bunch. Now, that is what I dont like. (maybe that is more in line with the point Dr Bill and Duckbrain are trying to make)The reward factor is what I am afraid of. Great give-up players like Ronnie or Bugs made a career with those shots. I think that is the exception to my sound principles that Bill and the Duck were fishing around for.

Finally, unfortunately for most humans, few of us are suited well enough talent-wise, to be able to successfully play give-up pool

Beard

You took exception to this line:
What does have a chance of intimidating me is when someone takes a lower percentage shot in the hopes of getting a bunch. Now, that is what I dont like.
Dr Bill: (Strange why you would not like that because it apply's to your axiom, taking a low percentage shot and leaving a higher percentage shot if you miss )

Here was my reply to your reply:
The difference is this, obviously: I don’t like guys shooting at any shots that can win the game, and that goes even for suckers. I would much rather that they would try and out-maneuver me -- because that aint gonna often happen. However, you and they, can take all the "One's and Done's" that you want.
Artie B made a career out of guys shooting at One's and Done's playing Onepocket. Every time they made one he would say, God bless you.

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I'm trying, i'm trying real hard to wake you guys up about the art of winning but there are a few that just don't want to get it, get it?

Bill

Bill,

At the risk of giving the Duck and others ammunition to accuse me of bragging let me tell you something about me & winning.

The last several years I played I lost 5 games to Paul Brusiloff for $100 per game. I quit so he could play guys for $1000 a game. John McCue and I went back & forth for a couple of months after my initial 17 game win. The last time we played was 5 ahead for $1000 and I won 3 games before we quit at the agreed upon time.

With those two exceptions, Paul winning 5 games and McCue and I going back & forth, nobody beat me in those few years when betting more than $20 a game or more than $50 per set. Nobody. Part of the reason for that is not too many guys wanted to match-up with me anyway, another reason is not too many guys ever had money to bet. I can't change those things. But when I did gamble higher, nobody won. In case you are getting bad info on my gamble & speed, let me tell you one more thing; in the year before I quit playing I played Kim Bennett even for $100 per game. Do you understand what that means? It means I go to work 40 hours per week and on my days off, to get action, I have to play someone Kim's speed. The original "lose 2 games & quit" guy, much like most here in Detroit.

I don't need lessons in how to win, it wasn't a problem. It's just odd that you continue to think you are the only one with the magic elixir.

Dennis