Whats this spot worth????

[lfigueroa]

you are playing a champion
he is giving you all 3 pockets on your side of the table
he only gets his normal pocket
how strong/weak a spot do you think this is??
i must confess this question was asked on azb
i trust your answers more.....

The thing with this spot is that you still have to get 8 in your hole. So going from there you have to figure the two extra pockets are only going to factor in IF you're a smart enough -- good enough player to make them an issue. Otherwise you're basically playing a champion player, who is likely to beat you to the first shot anyway, with only a small margin. You'd be better off getting 10-6 or whatever it is you actually need. But, most guys aren't that smart, overrate their game, and only think of the extra pockets.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Jimmy B]

The thing with this spot is that you still have to get 8 in your hole. So going from there you have to figure the two extra pockets are only going to factor in IF you're a smart enough -- good enough player to make them an issue. Otherwise you're basically playing a champion player, who is likely to beat you to the first shot anyway, with only a small margin. You'd be better off getting 10-6 or whatever it is you actually need. But, most guys aren't that smart, overrate their game, and only think of the extra pockets.

Lou Figueroa

I agree with Lou most definitely and SuperDuck. Getting 8 would still be a huge task against a HOF player. Also getting 5 in a regular game will be a monumental task. Maybe take those 3 pockets and some balls, like 8 to 6. You can't be shy in asking for weight against those type of players. Welcome out of lurking spider and good to see Lou posting....

 

[lll]

im curious on his thoughts about giving you the diagonal corner pocket

 

[spiderwebcomm]

The thing with this spot is that you still have to get 8 in your hole. So going from there you have to figure the two extra pockets are only going to factor in IF you're a smart enough -- good enough player to make them an issue. Otherwise you're basically playing a champion player, who is likely to beat you to the first shot anyway, with only a small margin. You'd be better off getting 10-6 or whatever it is you actually need. But, most guys aren't that smart, overrate their game, and only think of the extra pockets.

Lou Figueroa

I guess you're saying I'm not smart, I over-rated my game and I only thought of extra pockets. True enough -- I did think of the extra pockets because playing even ball-wise, you MUST do that or you have a 6-sigma factor of losing. Does it mean I over-rated my game or I'm not smart? Could be --- but you can't extrapolate that from what I posted.

For example, you played in the US Open 1-Pocket this year and played two super players: Darren Appleton and Chris Gentile. You didn't get enough balls to win a game in either match. Both of those guys are terrific players. That said -- the guy I played plays better 1pkt than either in regards to knowledge and CB placement. Does that mean you over-rated your game and that you aren't smart (by entering the tournament to begin with)? Or, maybe, does it mean you were out-classed by superior players but wanted to stick your toe in the water to see how you'd fare?

Great post there, Lou. Good insight.

 

[lll]

I guess you're saying I'm not smart, I over-rated my game and I only thought of extra pockets. True enough -- I did think of the extra pockets because playing even ball-wise, you MUST do that or you have a 6-sigma factor of losing. Does it mean I over-rated my game or I'm not smart? Could be --- but you can't extrapolate that from what I posted.

For example, you played in the US Open 1-Pocket this year and played two super players: Darren Appleton and Chris Gentile. You didn't get enough balls to win a game in either match. Both of those guys are terrific players. That said -- the guy I played plays better 1pkt than either in regards to knowledge and CB placement. Does that mean you over-rated your game and that you aren't smart (by entering the tournament to begin with)? Or, maybe, does it mean you were out-classed by superior players but wanted to stick your toe in the water to see how you'd fare?

Great post there, Lou. Good insight.

spidey
if i may call you that
here is another opinion
when the spread of skill reaches a certain point the spot almost doesnt matter
if you cant counter with forcing enough shots to pressure your opponent
its like letting the rooster in the chiken pen
when shane plays efren for example
they both can put the cue ball on a dime
but they also can kick on a dime to get out of traps
so my 2 cents is you arent close enough in 1p skills to pressure your opponent
so the spot as you found out is a sucker spot
lets give the analogy to 9ball.....
you have someone who can string 5-6 racks in a row
if you cant run out whats the spot you have a chance
you win if i miss???
lets say you are a 6 ball runner to beat the ghost
do you think you will ever get a chance to see the 3 ball
hes out on your mistake
just sayin

 

[spiderwebcomm]

spidey
if i may call you that
here is another opinion
when the spread of skill reaches a certain point the spot almost doesnt matter
if you cant counter with forcing enough shots to pressure your opponent
its like letting the rooster in the chiken pen
when shane plays efren for example
they both can put the cue ball on a dime
but they also can kick on a dime to get out of traps
so my 2 cents is you arent close enough in 1p skills to pressure your opponent
so the spot as you found out is a sucker spot
lets give the analogy to 9ball.....
you have someone who can string 5-6 racks in a row
if you cant run out whats the spot you have a chance
you win if i miss???
lets say you are a 6 ball runner to beat the ghost
do you think you will ever get a chance to see the 3 ball
hes out on your mistake
just sayin

Exactly. I think your post is the bottom-line.

I think out of this I learned that there's a huge gap between excellent one pocket players and legend one pocket players. Once the gap goes beyond a point -- it's fruitless.

 

[androd]

Ha ! everybody thinks it's a sucker spot NOW. When the thread started some thought it was like 8/2 or 8/3 LOL.
Rod.
P.S. Speed kills.

 

[lll]

Probably not.(responding to someone who thought it was worth 8/2 8/3 my edit here )Although I have no idea.
Math is never able to handicap these props correctly.
Rod.

Ha ! everybody thinks it's a sucker spot NOW. When the thread started some thought it was like 8/2 or 8/3 LOL.
Rod.
P.S. Speed kills.

yoda rod you are a jedi master
your instincts are always spot on

 

[SJDinPHX]

Spider,

I did not cast aspersions, as to your smarts, or ability..We all make bad games at times, although few will admit it as you have !..I hope this doesn't digress into a flame war, and would hope we can stay on track.

I have, many times, taken considerable abuse on this forum. Often from people I could have given pretty good weight, when I was already an old man.,So what..I know, and they know, and I know they know, I know..

Your post's tell me you are NOT a dummy, you just fell for a trap, as many of us have... It will be beneficial, to all the forum members, to pursue this thread, and find a way to avoid the pitfalls, of a GOOD SOUNDING game.

Good players, have made a lot of money offering 'good sounding' games..Do not feel you are the only one who has ever fell for it..

PS..I do not mean this as a 'knock', to all the guys still trying to make a buck hustling pool..The game you got caught in, was just one of hundreds of 'no win' prop game scenarios..!

 

[spiderwebcomm]

Spider,

I did not cast aspersions, as to your smarts, or ability..We all make bad games at times, although few will admit it as you have !..I hope this doesn't digress into a flame war, and would hope we can stay on track.

I have, many times, taken considerable abuse on this forum. Often from people I could have given pretty good weight, when I was already an old man.,So what..I know, and they know, and I know they know, I know..

Your post's tell me you are NOT a dummy, you just fell for a trap, as many of us have... It will be beneficial, to all the forum members, to pursue this thread, and find a way to avoid the pitfalls, of a GOOD SOUNDING game.

Good players, have made a lot of money offering 'good sounding' games..Do not feel you are the only one who has ever fell for it..

PS..I do not mean this as a 'knock', to all the guys still trying to make a buck hustling pool..The game you got caught in, was just one of hundreds of 'no win' prop game scenarios..!

I don't think it's a knock to say there are people out there who can spot half-decent players whatever I don't mind telling everyone when I get crushed.

The game did sound good. Nevertheless, it was a "good" experience. It was a reality check and it made me realize how happy I was that I have a real job and don't have to rely playing for a living.

While you're at it, tell me the other no-win prop scenarios so I know

 

[Scrzbill]

one for two

one for two

The Tooth showed a good one in Sac. He went to one, the opponent went to two. Who won?

 

[SJDinPHX]

I don't think it's a knock to say there are people out there who can spot half-decent players whatever I don't mind telling everyone when I get crushed.

The game did sound good. Nevertheless, it was a "good" experience. It was a reality check and it made me realize how happy I was that I have a real job and don't have to rely playing for a living. <---You would be amazed at how much abuse I've taken for that !

While you're at it, tell me the other no-win prop scenarios so I know

I am afraid if I did, I would be like the Frankenstein Monster, with a mob of pool hustler's looking to kill me !

PS..I will ask, do you know ALL the "scratches don't count" scams ? Or 'hitting the end rail', in 9 or 10 ball ? ..

 

[tylerdurden]

I want to first welcome spiderweb as well. Good to have one more obviously intelligent poster.

Actual experience is always better than paper, and it is also hard to know how well you play, although your posts help. For yourself, what is the game handicap you'd put on this 3 pocket spot he gave you (eg 10 to 6...)???

On the positive side for this game, I see it as being easier to beat the guy to the shot. As you have noted, that will be hard against a champ, but beating him to the shot is of course a big part of one hole, if not the whole thing. You mentioned you were selling out on some of your breaks, that is big.
Also, in all those situations where in a normal game you may think "I can see getting 4 from here", that number in general is going to go up substantially, as you now have 2 more pockets.

On the negative side, you do have to defend against (block him from seeing) your THREE holes now, in some instances anyway. In other words, he is actually getting a little help in being able to deteriorate your position(s), assuming you have built them up in front of multiple holes. It is a little like schooling fish theory, one or 2 and you can zone in, a bunch and it is hard for you to focus. This seems like it could both work against you while helping him.

 

[Scrzbill]

On the positive side for this game, I see it as being easier to beat the guy to the shot. As you have noted, that will be hard against a champ, but beating him to the shot is of course a big part of one hole, if not the whole thing. You mentioned you were selling out on some of your breaks, that is big.
Also, in all those situations where in a normal game you may think "I can see getting 4 from here", that number in general is going to go up substantially]

I see all kinds of advantages. There is no tying up of balls along your side pocket, nor the end pocket. What would be a safe shot of taking a ball away from the opponents side or hole turns into an opportunity to put a ball near one of your holes. Even balls left on his side can be banks into the top corner. I will be awake all night thinking of opportunities.:frus:sorry

 

[lfigueroa]

I guess you're saying I'm not smart, I over-rated my game and I only thought of extra pockets. True enough -- I did think of the extra pockets because playing even ball-wise, you MUST do that or you have a 6-sigma factor of losing. Does it mean I over-rated my game or I'm not smart? Could be --- but you can't extrapolate that from what I posted.

For example, you played in the US Open 1-Pocket this year and played two super players: Darren Appleton and Chris Gentile. You didn't get enough balls to win a game in either match. Both of those guys are terrific players. That said -- the guy I played plays better 1pkt than either in regards to knowledge and CB placement. Does that mean you over-rated your game and that you aren't smart (by entering the tournament to begin with)? Or, maybe, does it mean you were out-classed by superior players but wanted to stick your toe in the water to see how you'd fare?

Great post there, Lou. Good insight.

As everyone here knows (with one obvious exception, lol) tournament play has little to nothing to do with match play.

What I’m saying (again) is: against a champion, you would have to be smart enough and good enough as a 1pocket player to exploit the spot in question. You said, “...I thought (literally) no one on planet earth could spot me that.” And then, “I literally had zero shots at any pocket ever.” IOW, my initial analysis was, as you like to say, spot on. Sooooo, clearly, you weren’t smart enough or good enough to exploit the spot and clearly, you over rated your game.

It’s not a question of good insight just good 1pocket common sense, earned after many a late night hour matched up at the pool hall.

Lou Figueroa

 

[spiderwebcomm]

Fair enough... I guess I look at it from the opposite side of the spectrum. I don't think I over-estimated my game. I think I under-estimated the ability gap between a HOF player and great regional players in 1-hole, which is what lead me to that conclusion.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[tonygreen]

Thanks again Spider for following up with everyone who took the time to give their opinion in this thread.

Androd , has a axe to grind with me obviously (without stating what he thinks or thought the spot is worth or equates to) I am open to a PM if he wants to further tell me how stupid I am or how smart he is.

Please don't get caught up in any of the flaming that goes on here. (big Lol)

The spot has caused a great deal of speculation amongst many. The obvious has already been mentioned, the spot is dependent upon which two players are battling.

I still contend that the spot is worth 5 balls minimum.

I hope we all come away enriched in someway speaking about it.

Cheers

 

[lll]

spidey
if i may call you that
here is another opinion
when the spread of skill reaches a certain point the spot almost doesnt matter
if you cant counter with forcing enough shots to pressure your opponent
its like letting the rooster in the chiken pen
when shane plays efren for example
they both can put the cue ball on a dime
but they also can kick on a dime to get out of traps
so my 2 cents is you arent close enough in 1p skills to pressure your opponent
so the spot as you found out is a sucker spot
lets give the analogy to 9ball.....
you have someone who can string 5-6 racks in a row
if you cant run out whats the spot you have a chance
you win if i miss???
lets say you are a 6 ball runner to beat the ghost
do you think you will ever get a chance to see the 3 ball
hes out on your mistake
just sayin

Thanks again Spider for following up with everyone who took the time to give their opinion in this thread.

Androd , has a axe to grind with me obviously (without stating what he thinks or thought the spot is worth or equates to) I am open to a PM if he wants to further tell me how stupid I am or how smart he is.

Please don't get caught up in any of the flaming that goes on here. (big Lol)

The spot has caused a great deal of speculation amongst many. The obvious has already been mentioned, the spot is dependent upon which two players are battling.

I still contend that the spot is worth 5 balls minimum.

I hope we all come away enriched in someway speaking about it.

Cheers

tony
you and i are cool
so take this as a comment and not personal
the strength of the spot has to do with the person giving and the person getting it...imho

 

[tonygreen]

read up Larry ...
"the spot is dependent on which two players are battling"

 

[androd]

Androd , has a axe to grind with me obviously (without stating what he thinks or thought the spot is worth or equates to) I am open to a PM if he wants to further tell me how stupid I am or how smart he is.

Cheers

Tony. Not at all. I'm sorry you took my opinion that way.
Rod.