Back cut spot shot?

[onepockethacker]

Here is my thinking on this.. I have never played the shot that way but from now on there will be occasions for me to play it like John did.. Unfortunately this is not one of them. Playing it the way John is in this situation you are either going to leave a cut on the 11 ball or a bank on the 7 ball.. hard not to give up some kind of shot if you miss so I would just fire in a normal spot shot.. However lets say im playing a 5 or 6 ahead and been playing for a long time and you go through ups and down as far as energy and focus and nerves.. Sometimes during a long session you just dont see the balls clearly(its just a fact) well from now on in that situation im definitely shooting the shot like this

 

[lll]

On my computer screen those pockets look pretty tight. Soooo, somewhat obviously, he's concerned about selling out a bank if he misses. I can't honestly say I've played the shot that way myself, but I'm going to from now on

Lou Figueroa

lou
i too see the merit of the shot
dont have the experience of rod
will put it into the think tank for future reference

 

[SJDinPHX]

On my computer screen those pockets look pretty tight. Soooo, somewhat obviously, he's concerned about selling out a bank if he misses. I can't honestly say I've played the shot that way myself, but I'm going to from now on

Lou Figueroa

Wise move Lou..We can all learn something of value here..(except of course, for the 'know it all' slate head's)

 

[lfigueroa]

lou
i too see the merit of the shot
dont have the experience of rod
will put it into the think tank for future reference

Rod who?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Wise move Lou..We can all learn something of value here..(except of course, for the 'know it all' slate head's)

Dick, my personal experience is that you can pick stuff up everywhere and everywhere and need to be open to new approaches.

At the US Open one year up in Kalamzoo Efren was watching me play Steve Cook for $20 a game and I couldn't figure out why he was watching so intently. Later I heard that Efren likes to watch the bangers to discover "the hidden shots." I'm sure he learned plenty that night

Lou Figueroa

 

[Jimmy B]

Here is my thinking on this.. I have never played the shot that way but from now on there will be occasions for me to play it like John did.. Unfortunately this is not one of them. Playing it the way John is in this situation you are either going to leave a cut on the 11 ball or a bank on the 7 ball.. hard not to give up some kind of shot if you miss so I would just fire in a normal spot shot.. However lets say im playing a 5 or 6 ahead and been playing for a long time and you go through ups and down as far as energy and focus and nerves.. Sometimes during a long session you just dont see the balls clearly(its just a fact) well from now on in that situation im definitely shooting the shot like this

That's good teaching. Looks like he moved on the shot and or hit it way too thickly. As bad as he hit it, the ball is still right in front of his pocket and his opponent needs them all so he chooses to remove it. John still wins 8-5. This shows that you can hit a shot poorly but if you've chosen a good shot, you can still come out ok.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Here is my thinking on this.. I have never played the shot that way but from now on there will be occasions for me to play it like John did.. Unfortunately this is not one of them. Playing it the way John is in this situation you are either going to leave a cut on the 11 ball or a bank on the 7 ball.. hard not to give up some kind of shot if you miss so I would just fire in a normal spot shot.. However lets say im playing a 5 or 6 ahead and been playing for a long time and you go through ups and down as far as energy and focus and nerves.. Sometimes during a long session you just dont see the balls clearly(its just a fact) well from now on in that situation im definitely shooting the shot like this

Hacker,

You must have missed my answer ro RBL, (post #17) or Bernies explanation (#5)...John obviously butchered his speed on that particular shot...The cue ball, with no english, (or a hair of RH) should wind up very close to the end rail, between the first and middle diamond...Let my oppo cut the 11 ball in from there..Thats the whole purpose of shooting the shot that way...He HAS to deal with the ball by my hole, UNLESS of course, I make it..

SuperDuck <--Is trying to help, stop implying that John shot the wrong shot..He just set it up a little too thin, and butchered his speed..

 

[tylerdurden]

There is no doubt it is a good shot to keep in mind, but there is no way that shot is "about the same make percentage as from the rail". Maybe for you Duck, but certainly not for the average player. That is the only part I disagree with.

 

[lll]

I have shot it like this. Your CB misses the other ball and the chance of a scratch. You don't leave a cross bank or have the ball on the spot come across the table if you miss.
Rod.
P.S. When you miss a lot you learn these things.

Rod who?

Lou Figueroa

lou rod has been around the block many times
his advice is based on many tears of being in action
i trust what he says
rod thanks for your help over the years
larry

 

[onepockethacker]

Hacker,

You must have missed my answer ro RBL, (post #17) or Bernies explanation...John obviously butchered his speed on that particular shot...The cue ball, with no english, (or a hair of RH) should wind up very close to the end rail, between the first and middle diamond...Let my oppo cut the 11 ball in from there..Thats the whole purpose of shooting the shot that way...He HAS to deal with the ball by my hole, UNLESS of course, I make it..

SuperDuck <--Is trying to help, stop implying that John shot the wrong shot..He just set it up a little too thin, and butchered his speed..

No I saw your post. To everyone reading this... with only ONE ball on the table this is the proper way to play the shot.. In this situation it was not the right shot. They are 54 minutes into this match and both should be fresh... John should of shot the shot from the rail and drew his ball to the side and down to the bottom rail under the 11 ball. If they were 5 hours and 54 minutes into the match I would have played it Johns way

 

[SJDinPHX]

There is no doubt it is a good shot to keep in mind, but there is no way that shot is "about the same make percentage as from the rail". Maybe for you Duck, but certainly not for the average player. That is the only part I disagree with.

Disagree all you want Tyler..You will be amazed how much your confidence level improves, when you KNOW you are shooting the RIGHT shot..Try it for a change...John Schmidt probably shoots spots shots twice as good as I do/did...But he still recognized the value of the
RIGHT SHOT, in that situation. He can be forgiven, for over cooking it..I shall be working with him, on that weakness..

SuperDuck <--One more time, you have earned my favorite photo..to share with RBL..It is TOO fitting, I just can't help myself..

View attachment 7895

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Disagree all you want Tyler..You will be amazed how much your confidence level improves, when you KNOW you are shooting the RIGHT shot..Try it for a change...John Schmidt probably shoots spots shots twice as good as I do/did...But he still recognized the value of the
RIGHT SHOT, in that situation.

SuperDuck <--One more time, you have earned my favorite photo..to share with RBL..It is just too fitting, I can't help myself..

Anyone who wouldn't shoot the spot-shot from the side rail is a homo. Are there homo ducks???

RBL

 

[tylerdurden]

Disagree all you want Tyler..You will be amazed how much your confidence level improves, when you KNOW you are shooting the RIGHT shot..Try it for a change...John Schmidt probably shoots spots shots twice as good as I do/did...But he still recognized the value of the
RIGHT SHOT, in that situation. He can be forgiven, for over cooking it..I shall be working with him, on that weakness..

SuperDuck <--One more time, you have earned my favorite photo..to share with RBL..It is TOO fitting, I just can't help myself..

View attachment 7895

Well, if you read that post you quoted, I didn't even comment on whether it was the "right shot" or not, just that your actual make percentage goes down the more cut you make the shot. Disagreeing with that puts you in the category of not understanding offense in pool, which is why you are affectionately known as ducker perhaps.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

I can understand the thinking in why John shot it like that. However I would not have shot it that way because of the location of that stripe ball. I would have slowed rolled it because the stripe ball would be a huge shield for the seven if it didn't go and the seven would be a blocker for the bank on the stripe.

The balls are sitting fine for this to happen. He just needed to move the cue ball a bit to his left, just enough so as to miss hitting the stripe ball.

Frank, I am with you on this - slow-rolling the spot shot...although this method is def. not for everyone - you must have excellent speed control to shoot it this way....but I'm a pocket speed player, and I slow-roll spot shot/spot shot-type shots all the time, so I'm extremely comfortable with hitting it at exact or near exact pocket speed...

and for all of those firm shooting advocates who like to say - "that slow-roll option is too dangerous cuz you'll sell out a bank if you shoot it at pocket speed and don't make it"....well, :sorry but that's just not true..if your speed control is good enough - I can't even remember the last time I left a bank slow-rolling one of those......and I'll offer a $50 prop bet to any hard-shooting doubters...

I'll slow-roll 10 spot shots, and bet on a 90-100% success rate :heh if I leave a bank more than once, I lose the bet, otherwise I win...window's open...

- Ghost

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I can understand the thinking in why John shot it like that. However I would not have shot it that way because of the location of that stripe ball. I would have slowed rolled it because the stripe ball would be a huge shield for the seven if it didn't go and the seven would be a blocker for the bank on the stripe.

The balls are sitting fine for this to happen. He just needed to move the cue ball a bit to his left, just enough so as to miss hitting the stripe ball.

Frank, I am with you on this - slow-rolling the spot shot...although this method is def. not for everyone - you must have top notch speed control to shoot it this way....but I'm a pocket speed player, and I slow-roll spot shot/spot shot-type shots all the time, so I'm extremely comfortable with hitting it at exact/near exact pocket speed...

and for all of those firm shooting advocates who like to say - "that slow-roll option is too dangerous cuz you'll sell out a bank if you shoot it at pocket speed and don't make it"....well, :sorry but that's just not true - if your speed control is good enough - I can't even remember the last time I left a bank slow-rolling one of those......and I'll offer a $50 prop bet to any hard-shooting doubters...

I'll slow-roll 10 spot shots, and bet on a 90-100% success rate :heh if I leave a bank more than once, I lose the bet - window's open...

- Ghost

Ghosty,

I agree with both you & Frank here. I slow-rolled spot-shots on the snooker table at times and with protection here it is definitely the correct shot.

Dennis

 

[onepockethacker]

Frank, I am with you on this - slow-rolling the spot shot...although this method is def. not for everyone - you must have excellent speed control to shoot it this way....but I'm a pocket speed player, and I slow-roll spot shot/spot shot-type shots all the time, so I'm extremely comfortable with hitting it at exact or near exact pocket speed...

and for all of those firm shooting advocates who like to say - "that slow-roll option is too dangerous cuz you'll sell out a bank if you shoot it at pocket speed and don't make it"....well, :sorry but that's just not true..if your speed control is good enough - I can't even remember the last time I left a bank slow-rolling one of those......and I'll offer a $50 prop bet to any hard-shooting doubters...

I'll slow-roll 10 spot shots, and bet on a 90-100% success rate :heh if I leave a bank more than once, I lose the bet, otherwise I win...window's open...

- Ghost

The problem Ghost is you may not leave a direct bank but there is a good chance you can leave a rail first kick bank with the cueball going all the way uptable and the 11 ball is a huge ball for any banked ball off the bottom of it

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

The problem Ghost is you may not leave a direct bank but there is a good chance you can leave a rail first kick bank with the cueball going all the way uptable and the 11 ball is a huge ball for any banked ball off the bottom of it

Not a problem Rob...like I said, the shot's not for everyone...but just like I said with my prop bet offer - 9 out of 10 times if I miss it I'm going to leave it close enough to the pocket points not to leave a bank - or a kick...also also, re. the guys who like to drill in the spot shot...I'm going to finally take the time to post this, which never gets mentioned...

The hard shooters always talk about the danger of leaving a bank by rolling the spot shot...and then they smugly say, by shooting hard, the ball will leave the area if they miss - yeah right, it will leave the area - but end up where exactly?, and where as corresponds to where the cueball ends up? - meaning they don't know where...and in fact, by shooting hard and missing the spot shot you can very easily leave a straight back bank, a 2 rail bank, or a 3 rail bank on that missed ball...so the actual truth is...

The guy shooting the spot shot hard and missing, will leave a return shot more often then I will by rolling the spot shot.........:heh...

- Ghost

 

[SJDinPHX]

Well, if you read that post you quoted, I didn't even comment on whether it was the "right shot" or not, just that your actual make percentage goes down the more cut you make the shot. Disagreeing with that puts you in the category of not understanding offense in pool, which is why you are affectionately known as ducker perhaps.

Tyler, You really don't understand do you ?..No one played more "offense" than I did, in my prime...I was a Scott Frost, Ronnie Allen, type player.(albeit, with about half their ball running skills)...I did not start relying on 'squeezing' until my ball running skills began to seriously deteriorate !...But, in ANY situation, remotely resembling the layout in question here, I would have loved to have played the guy's proposing the 'slow roll' here, for a living..(especially RBL, who thinks we are playing on a snooker table)

I would be willing to stake/wager on Bernie, to play that particular shot OUR WAY, against ANY proponents of 'slow rolling' the shot... And I would wager some serious $$$$, that we would have a more successful win/loss percentage !...It is simply the "correct, mistake free", way to play the shot.. (sound familiar ?)...So belly up big boy, the window is wide open...I have no qualms about taking 'teen-agers' or 'apparitions' case dollar'(s)..!..

SuperDuck <---Does however, reserve the right to impose a minimum wager..(that'll lose a bunch of naysayer's)..

PS..RBL CANNOT wager, 'til he pays me the $4200 he owes me..

 

[wincardona]

Tyler, You really don't understand do you ?..No one played more "offense" than I did, in my prime...I was a Scott Frost, Ronnie Allen, type player.(albeit, with about half their ball running skills)...I did not start relying on 'squeezing' until my ball running skills began to seriously deteriorate !...But, in ANY situation, remotely resembling the layout in question here, I would have loved to have played the guy's proposing the 'slow roll' here, for a living..(especially RBL, who thinks we are playing on a snooker table)

I would be willing to stake/wager on Bernie, to play that particular shot OUR WAY, against ANY proponents of 'slow rolling' the shot... And I would wager some serious $$$$, that we would have a more successful win/loss percentage !...It is simply the "correct, mistake free", way to play the shot.. (sound familiar ?)...So belly up big boy, the window is wide open...I have no qualms about taking 'teen-agers' or 'apparitions' case dollar'(s)..!..

SuperDuck <---Does however, reserve the right to impose a minimum wager..(that'll lose a bunch of naysayer's)..

PS..RBL CANNOT wager, 'til he pays me the $4200 he owes me..

Allow me to play mediator here between both your shot and rolling it. (Ghost's shot)

Needing only one ball it's a close decision, however, rolling the shot insures your lead Imo better then thinly cutting it. Thinly cutting it, your make % goes up a little. Especially if you shoot it multiple times, like in a proposition bet. But like the Ghost says...if you roll balls well then the roll shot is the better shot. However, when playing a match or in a game, you only have one chance to shoot the shot, so, shoot your best shot.

Another advantage you have when rolling the shot is that even if you miss the shot your most likely to create an escape problem for your opponent. This is predicated on this particular lay out. ...Notice the position of the striped ball...looks like it offers a large shield for the rolled shot. (if missed)

Dr. Bill

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

But let me also add this...

I also like the back-cut method for the spot shot, both for all the aforementioned strategic reasons, and because I like that type of cut shot.....that said, in this spot, if you told me I couldn't shoot the slow-roll shot (my first choice), and I had to choose between the back-cut option or shooting the spot shot the conventional way - I'd choose the back-cut option in a heartbeat.

- Ghost