Ball on the line, Legal or Not

[One pocket Smitty]

Anyone remember the thread about what is a legal ball to shoot with ball in hand behind the headstring. Tried to tell some guys today that the whole ball needed to be out and of course they were saying the middle of the ball. I am going to print out the thread so they will see the light. I know we have beat this horse to death, but I keep trying to find it in search to no avail.---Smitty

 

[gulfportdoc]

The BCA and the WPA use the "base of the ball". Whereas the DCC and others use the "face of the ball".

~Doc

 

[One pocket Smitty]

Thanks Doc.

 

[jtompilot]

About 90% of the people I play use the face. Some guys want to use the base and as long as we agree before the start that's ok

 

[One pocket Smitty]

jtompilot, everywhere I have played uses the face. Didn't know there was any other way until Doc posted his reply.---Smitty

 

[TomRoden]

Never played "the face"

Never played "the face"

I've never heard of NOT using the base of the ball.
Otherwise, a ball banging over a pocket would count as a point. Get it ??

 

[petie]

About 90% of the people I play use the face. Some guys want to use the base and as long as we agree before the start that's ok

Jim and Tom Roden, the reason the face of the ball is a better way to go is that it is much less debatable of a call. There are many reasons why it is much more difficult to definitively call it in or out using the base: for one, the ball itself blocks the line you are trying to keep it forward of. For another, viewing the base of the ball is not a definitive silhouette. It takes much more judgment to establish the exact center of the ball than it does to establish the edge.

The reason I think One Pocket players have always used the face or edge of the ball is because it eliminates arguments when playing for high stakes.

 

[tylerdurden]

This is one of those things where we need to universally settle on a rule one way or the other, and end it. I would think, disregarding whichever is played most for the moment, base of the ball does make more logical sense. That is where the ball is sitting. Edge of the ball is about as objective as 1/4 of the ball, it just doesn't make as much sense.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I've never heard of NOT using the base of the ball.
Otherwise, a ball banging over a pocket would count as a point. Get it ??

Heh, heh. Good point, Tom. I agree. The ball sits where it rests. The problem is that most rooms don't bother to mark a head string line on their tables, so it becomes a process of guess work to determine the exact position of a ball, whichever rule is used.

~Doc

 

[androd]

This is one of those things where we need to universally settle on a rule one way or the other, and end it.

Yes, Myself and the Stranger I'm going to play universally settle it before we start. That's the end of it.
Rod.
P.S. I don't know who else "WE' is. ?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

This is one of those things where we need to universally settle on a rule one way or the other, and end it. I would think, disregarding whichever is played most for the moment, base of the ball does make more logical sense. That is where the ball is sitting. Edge of the ball is about as objective as 1/4 of the ball, it just doesn't make as much sense.

The base of the ball seems intuitively right to me too, but I think the edge of the ball is really as easy to see as the base, maybe easier when there's no line. With no line you have to sight from diamond to diamond looking down at the top of the cue ball, which makes it a lot like trying to "see" 1/4 ball.

An interesting wrinkle with the base of the ball rule: the line itself is outside the kitchen, so an OB can be sitting on the line and be OK to hit, and the CB must be sitting (at least slightly) behind the line - for breaks too.

About 20 years ago at South Bay Billiards in LA, I saw Mark Tadd and another player having a hilarious pantomime argument about this: Mark carefully puts the CB right on the line to break, the other guy leaps out of his seat, grabs the CB and slams it down 1/8" further back, Mark calmly waits for him to get back to his seat and carefully places the CB back onto the line - rinse/repeat. This went on for about 5 minutes - Mark got so far into the guy's head I think he's still there.
pj
chgo

 

[Scrzbill]

Heh, heh. Good point, Tom. I agree. The ball sits where it rests. The problem is that most rooms don't bother to mark a head string line on their tables, so it becomes a process of guess work to determine the exact position of a ball, whichever rule is used.

~Doc

A head string does make a difference when using base of ball but even using a head string makes it difficult for some shots to determine where the ball lies. Most of the tables around here are done by one person and he puts a head string on every table. The head string helps tremendously with face of the ball also. You can look straight across the line and any ball sticking over is obvious. Whenever I match up with someone I always try to get the rules WE are going to play by before the game begins. One of those discussions is base of ball etc. Removing arguments from the games is the biggest reason for base/face rules. I have found that even using a string line there are times when it is not clear where the actual base of the ball lies. I prefer face of ball only because it is easier for me to distinguish where the ball actually lies. For fun using............who plays for fun?

 

[Scrzbill]

The base of the ball seems intuitively right to me too, but I think the edge of the ball is really as easy to see as the base, maybe easier when there's no line. With no line you have to sight from diamond to diamond looking down at the top of the cue ball, which makes it a lot like trying to "see" 1/4 ball.

An interesting wrinkle with the base of the ball rule: the line itself is outside the kitchen, so an OB can be sitting on the line and be OK to hit, and the CB must be sitting (at least slightly) behind the line - for breaks too.

About 20 years ago at South Bay Billiards in LA, I saw Mark Tadd and another player having a hilarious pantomime argument about this: Mark carefully puts the CB right on the line to break, the other guy leaps out of his seat, grabs the CB and slams it down 1/8" further back, Mark calmly waits for him to get back to his seat and carefully places the CB back onto the line - rinse/repeat. This went on for about 5 minutes - Mark got so far into the guy's head I think he's still there.
pj
chgo

Last time I saw Mark Tadd was at a little Chinese restaurant in Port Angeles Washington. It had two gold crown and a bunch of coin bar tables. He was playing the owners son who used to play pretty sporting. I had just gotten there from a two day trip up the coast and stopped in to make an appointment with the son to play later in my trip. As soon as Mark saw me he started barking. I told him I needed to sleep and that I would play him the next day. He wouldn't wait. He missed a good payday as I never recovered from the trip and donated to the son.A few years later the place burned down, in the middle of the night. There are no poolrooms on the peninsula and it will be tough moving there.

 

[wincardona]

Jim and Tom Roden, the reason the face of the ball is a better way to go is that it is much less debatable of a call. There are many reasons why it is much more difficult to definitively call it in or out using the base: for one, the ball itself blocks the line you are trying to keep it forward of. For another, viewing the base of the ball is not a definitive silhouette. It takes much more judgment to establish the exact center of the ball than it does to establish the edge.

The reason I think One Pocket players have always used the face or edge of the ball is because it eliminates arguments when playing for high stakes.

Great explanation of why the face is the better way to play and judge whether the ball is in or out.

Dr. Bill

 

[Skin]

Jim and Tom Roden, the reason the face of the ball is a better way to go is that it is much less debatable of a call. There are many reasons why it is much more difficult to definitively call it in or out using the base: for one, the ball itself blocks the line you are trying to keep it forward of. For another, viewing the base of the ball is not a definitive silhouette. It takes much more judgment to establish the exact center of the ball than it does to establish the edge.

The reason I think One Pocket players have always used the face or edge of the ball is because it eliminates arguments when playing for high stakes.

Skin

 

[Cary]

I said it last time: I can argue it either way.

What I didn't say is that I don't argue it unless it is a gross and obvious attempt to corrupt the game. "You think it's over/on the line? Ok, hurry up and shoot." I suspect those who would argue over the base would also argue over the face---and with equal vigor.

 

[stevelomako]

Playing the edge touching the line you lose 4 1/2 inches of table play. Thats a lot.

If there is a line it's pretty easy to see if the ball is on it or not.

 

[stevelomako]

Playing the edge touching the line you lose 4 1/2 inches of table play. Thats a lot.

If there is a line it's pretty easy to see if the ball is on it or not.

Any way they want to play I will. You have to keep your customers happy and coming back to donate.

 

[Mkbtank]

Ball on the line, Legal or Not

Any way they want to play I will. You have to keep your customers happy and coming back to donate.

That's the rule I have adopted since hanging out here. I'd rather be the older, wiser bull.

 

[straightback]

Like a lot of the picayune crap we obsess over endlessly, it rarely comes up and seldom if ever makes a true difference.