palmer /efren #2

[wincardona]

Dr Bill. You mentioned about not doing something stupid. Why, do you think, people refuse to take the intentional? I find that many one pocket players who have been playing for a while and have great results on a club player level who just cant take a scratch.
I keep advising them and even show them Efren taking 2 or 3 scratches in a row (non tournament game) but they bull headedly refuse to take one. They just cant bring themselves to it. They still see it as a sign of weakness.
This can be irritating in a partners game. As they refuse to do it and show displeasure when you do.

Well I guess you may have answered your own question on why these players refuse to take the intentional, in spite of using Reyes as an example when you said that they have had success on a club level. It reverts back to the saying that, if it's not broke it don't need fixin.

However, when you speak about the displeasure they show when you do it, so be it. Maybe after watching you do it for enough times, with success, they just might adopt that way of thinking. If you can't beat em..join em.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

Ordinarily I would like the shot suggested and lag to the top rail doubling up the two balls along the side rail. This in reply to the intentional foul by Billy. In this case however I would be concerned with the one/eight combination and refrain from leaving the cue ball in that location. If that combo can be hit in such a manner as to pocket the eight and run the cue ball through to the other side for position, then obviously an alternative must be found.

Photo images can be deceiving and the shot may not be there, but from this view the shot looks juicy. I'm going to look beyond that lag shot and search for something which will not tempt my opponent into a shot which could potentially cost me the game.

Tom

Tom, your point is well taken on the possibility of leaving a wired combination with the 8ball and showing that as a deterrent to negate the up table option as an option. Lets assume that there are no wired possibilities and play the game from that position, then positioning the cue ball at the top end of the table would be the ideal location, from the position referenced.Also locating the cue ball under the 9ball would also suffice for the shooter, after all the battle their in now are competing to further their own objectives. One wants to break down a position (Reyes) The other wants to protect or improve his position (Palmer)

The shots discussed were imo shots that would give each player a fair chance of succeeding, but like I mentioned in an earlier post is that this battle should be won by Reyes, in terms of not being burned from the initial position, not because Palmer chose the wrong shot with the intentional but because the position is transparent enough to see it through providing the correct shots are taken. But there will be more battles to fight on the horizon, especially between two knowledgeable players who understand what options are the best to take.

Dr. Bill

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Outside draw and a tight grip.

I remember Freddy saying a tight grip is needed for some cross-corner banks. How does a tight grip help? What kinds of shots need a tight grip?

pj <- Bueller?
chgo

 

[wincardona]

Tom, your point is well taken on the possibility of leaving a wired combination with the 8ball and showing that as a deterrent to negate the up table option as an option. Lets assume that there are no wired possibilities and play the game from that position, then positioning the cue ball at the top end of the table would be the ideal location, from the position referenced.Also locating the cue ball under the 9ball would also suffice for the shooter, after all the battle their in now are competing to further their own objectives. One wants to break down a position (Reyes) The other wants to protect or improve his position (Palmer)

The shots discussed were imo shots that would give each player a fair chance of succeeding, but like I mentioned in an earlier post is that this battle should be won by Reyes, in terms of not being burned from the initial position, not because Palmer chose the wrong shot with the intentional but because the position is transparent enough to see it through providing the correct shots are taken. But there will be more battles to fight on the horizon, especially between two knowledgeable players who understand what options are the best to take.

Dr. Bill

The above situation is not about what shot is right or wrong, it's more about developing an understanding on how to protect a position and how to try to break it down. Each player has their own agenda, and the shots that were discussed were very viable options in proceeding in a certain direction.

I hope that I have helped someone develop a better understanding on how to possibly think through situations like this one, in regard to protecting and breaking down a positional advantage.

Just like there are a million stories in the "naked city" there are a million positions that we can discuss in the game of one pocket. However, understanding different strategies will help you in many of those million positional situations you may encounter.

Dr. Bill

 

[keoneyo]

The above situation is not about what shot is right or wrong, it's more about developing an understanding on how to protect a position and how to try to break it down. Each player has their own agenda, and the shots that were discussed were very viable options in preceding in a certain direction.

I hope that I have helped someone develop a better understanding on how to possibly think through situations like this one, in regard to protecting and breaking down a positional advantage.

Just like there are a million stories in the "naked city" there are a million positions that we can discuss in the game of one pocket. However, understanding different strategies will help you in many of those million positional situations you may encounter.

Dr. Bill

Thanks DR. Bill.
Its amazing how a discussion can lead to higher learning when you dont have oneupsmanship and have someone tell you how "lame" you are and how GREAT they are or was.
Greatness or superiority doesnt come in the telling but in the action. Perhaps thats why when Efren is asked he responds with "I got Lucky!".
This is one of the better WWYD's.
PS Tom put me down for a book, please.

 

[androd]

I remember Freddy saying a tight grip is needed for some cross-corner banks. How does a tight grip help? What kinds of shots need a tight grip?

pj <- Bueller?
chgo

I'll give my opinion, but need no proof.
When you play with a tight grip or tighten up when you strike the CB, It puts an overspin on the OB which makes it fight the pocket. Which is ideal for the discussed shot.
Rod.
P.S. I played with a tight grip for years and knew it was no good. After an accident I lost muscle memory, when I begin to form that again I went to a very light grip, the difference is amazing. The hardest thing was not tightening up on difficult shots.

 

[mr3cushion]

A 'more firm' grip on the cue, 'retards' rotation during the 'follow-thru.''

 

[straightback]

I remember Freddy saying a tight grip is needed for some cross-corner banks. How does a tight grip help? What kinds of shots need a tight grip?

pj <- Bueller?
chgo

I really loved Beard's strategy and him as a person - I considered his weird grip ideas mere exceptions to his usual sensible claims.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'll give my opinion, but need no proof.
When you play with a tight grip or tighten up when you strike the CB, It puts an overspin on the OB which makes it fight the pocket. Which is ideal for the discussed shot.

That sounds plausible to me. For instance, tightening your grip when you strike the CB could add a little snap to the end of your stroke (like wrist action), creating more speed and spin.

Of course the explanation isn't as important as making the shot - if you're making it you're shooting it right.

pj
chgo

 

[Tom Wirth]

This is one of the better WWYD's.
PS Tom put me down for a book, please.

It will be my pleasure, Keoneyo. Thank you.

I should be getting the book back from the editor within the next few days. I then will decide about adding a chapter about classic tactical mistakes by great players. I think we learn both quicker and better from our mistakes then we do from our successes, so a chapter dealing with errors from others may prove to be a valuable tool for the rest of us.

Tom

 

[bstroud]

Thanks DR. Bill.
Its amazing how a discussion can lead to higher learning when you dont have oneupsmanship and have someone tell you how "lame" you are and how GREAT they are or was.
Greatness or superiority doesnt come in the telling but in the action. Perhaps thats why when Efren is asked he responds with "I got Lucky!".
This is one of the better WWYD's.
PS Tom put me down for a book, please.

Sorry about the "lame" comment. I just get so frustrated that most players today don't want to shoot at their hole and try to win, as opposed to playing super safe and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake.

The fast cloth and small pockets have changed the game so much.

I am adjusting my thinking and shot selection but it has been difficult and occasionally my frustration comes to the surface.

Bill S.

 

[keoneyo]

Sorry about the "lame" comment. I just get so frustrated that most players today don't want to shoot at their hole and try to win, as opposed to playing super safe and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake.

The fast cloth and small pockets have changed the game so much.

I am adjusting my thinking and shot selection but it has been difficult and occasionally my frustration comes to the surface.

Bill S.[/QUOTE

Wasn't meaning you Bill. We know how good you are. And an asset to the game and forum

 

[Frank Almanza]

It will be my pleasure, Keoneyo. Thank you.

I should be getting the book back from the editor within the next few days. I then will decide about adding a chapter about classic tactical mistakes by great players. I think we learn both quicker and better from our mistakes then we do from our successes, so a chapter dealing with errors from others may prove to be a valuable tool for the rest of us.

Tom

That's what I always say, whether you do it right or you do it wrong, either way you learn from it. Please put me down for a book too.

 

[Tom Wirth]

That's what I always say, whether you do it right or you do it wrong, either way you learn from it. Please put me down for a book too.

Thanks Frank, you've got it!

Tom

 

[jtompilot]

Hey Tom, I need a book too

 

[mr3cushion]

Sorry about the "lame" comment. I just get so frustrated that most players today don't want to shoot at their hole and try to win, as opposed to playing super safe and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake.

The fast cloth and small pockets have changed the game so much.

I am adjusting my thinking and shot selection but it has been difficult and occasionally my frustration comes to the surface.

Bill S.

Bill, if I may, 'How do YOU know personally, when to shoot and when NOT to shoot?'

 

[demonrho]

...This is one of the better WWYD's.

I agree. And, Tom, hope you remember I'm on the list for the book.

 

[Tom Wirth]

Hey Tom, I need a book too

I agree. And, Tom, hope you remember I'm on the list for the book.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the enthusiasm.

Tom