Question for John Brumback

[kollegedave]

John,

I have noticed that there is a particular bank that you like to shoot while practicing and warming up-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79smr2qN1ns

You shoot this cross-corner bank MANY times in succession. My question is why? Is there a skill, point of view, or some information that you get from this bank that you might not from others?

Would you say that part of what makes you (or any other great banker) great is setting up particular banks over and over again to "get to know" that bank with different speeds, spins, etc.?

Thanks in advance, I am looking forward to seeing you at the DCC this year.

kollegedave

 

[senor]

I'm interested in hearing from the main man, also, but if I may add my point of view...

This would be much easier to show at a table, but John is lining up the CB and the OB in line with the center of the corner pocket he is shooting over through to the long rail immediately on the other side of the side pocket. The speed that the shot is being hit shortens up the angle the OB takes. Once a player like John knows that shot, he is the favorite to make the shot if it lays right or looks familiar, whether it's the exact angle or not.

John may or may not practice hitting the shot pocket speed, but generally bank pool players don't shoot pocket speed as often as in one pocket. However, if you were to line up the CB and OB approximately in line with the short rail pocket point (favor inside the pocket) he is shooting over to the long rail immediately before the side pocket, address the cue ball below center and hit the OB so as to not stun it, the angle will lengthen out enough to pocket the OB.

If I had the option of which one I would shoot for my money, it would definitely be the one I could hit with some speed.

New cloth and extreme humidity may affect these angles.

 

[straightback]

The balls likely aren't in a straight line - he's probably cutting the OB just slightly to the right so as to create predictable running English that also aids in pocketing a slightly errant hit.

 

[senor]

Must be a real heavy cue ball

BTW, when's the last time JB slightly errantly hit a shot ?

 

[androd]

The balls likely aren't in a straight line - he's probably cutting the OB just slightly to the right so as to create predictable running English that also aids in pocketing a slightly errant hit.

It would be the opposite of running English.
Rod.
P.S. you do cue it on right, although from there left makes it run.

 

[straightback]

With respect to the cross-table banks John is shown pocketing at the beginning, if the balls are on a straight line with the natural angle, and he cuts the ball slightly to the right, then running English is created. Maybe that's a better way of saying it.

I will say, however, John is found of being able to hit further down the rail to allow for a larger pocket, so he may be doing his pet technique, which would be cutting it slightly to the right AND using outside English.

Any way about it, it's a thing of beauty to watch those things disappear in rapid fire succession!

 

[senor]

In all seriousness, I believe it is the speed of the shot and the stroke of the shooter that creates the stun action on the OB and shortens the angle. Whatever spin created by the angle the CB and OB contact should be inconsequential if the shot is struck well.

I agree that shot angle may create different spins on the OB, but with the stun shot JB is practicing I don't think it makes much of a difference.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

straightback:
...he's probably cutting the OB just slightly to the right so as to create predictable running English that also aids in pocketing a slightly errant hit.

It would be the opposite of running English.
Rod.
P.S. you do cue it on right, although from there left makes it run.

I'm never certain what players mean when they say "running English" for banks.

I'd say that "running English" refers to the sidespin on the OB, and it's whatever sidespin makes the bank go a little longer.

In this case, I'd say that "cutting the OB just slightly to the right" as straightback says would put a little left sidespin on the OB, which is running English on the rail. (Assuming we're talking about John's first shots, which are banks going to his left.)

I'm not sure what Rod means...?

As usual, John's ability is totally unexplainable.

pj
chgo

 

[crabbcatjohn]

2 guess's

2 guess's

I'm guessing a few different reasons he shoots it. The first one is he shoots this same shot to test table conditions and to get him in stroke. The second reason is to intimidate opponents...lol Eddie Moore another old school very good banker from this area also shoots this same shot to warm up. I've seen him shoot it thousands of times. I guess i'll ask him why he shoots it. Eddie grew up with Fargo, wonder if he also shoots it warming up Would be interesting to hear from the Champ and see why they do it .

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In all seriousness, I believe it is the speed of the shot and the stroke of the shooter that creates the stun action on the OB and shortens the angle. Whatever spin created by the angle the CB and OB contact should be inconsequential if the shot is struck well.

I agree that shot angle may create different spins on the OB, but with the stun shot JB is practicing I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Stun is actually how you'd hit that shot (with a little cut or a little CB sidespin) to maximize transferred spin - so I think it makes the biggest difference in this case (if that's what he was doing). Maybe I don't know exactly what you mean by "stun"...?

But since the CB didn't drift left or right after contact, John was probably not cutting the OB left or right - unless he was matching a small cut with just enough sidespin to "throw" the OB straight (how straight shots with spin are done).

pj <- I know, I know... too much information
chgo

 

[straightback]

My best guess is just warming up, getting to feel the rails, getting a feel for how much the balls are turning and the action you are getting, etc. I doubt there's anything magic about this angle.

Might be something about cranking balls with no chance of the balls hanging up as on a straightback. Could also be as someone said - it is intimidating because this bank moves as fast as any on the table and slams the back of the pocket!

 

[Mkbtank]

Question for John Brumback

There's a guy around here who warms up like that and he calls it "getting the dog out". Likes to loosen up his stroke with it. Not that JB has any dog to let out (unless it's a real dog lol)

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

A little side story re. that same bank shot...

Back in the 60's-70's there was a black guy/bank pool player in Chicago named, if memory serves, Rahjeem...well, that bank of John's was his longstanding prop bet...whenever he was in the poolroom you had action with him...his bet was even money on that bank - every time he made it you paid off, whenever he missed it, he paid off....I don't know what his winning % was over the years with that prop bet of his - I should have asked him...haven't seen him in 35 years.

- Ghost

PS, I'm wondering if Billy S. or Artie remember him - he was down in Bensinger's a fair amount of time.

 

[John Brumback]

Here comes Johnny:lol I think everyone added some some very thoughtful and true statements as to why and how I shoot these shots ( everyone)

I don't have much time right now but I'll try to give a quick run down.( going to practice all day)

1. to gain confidence
2.To gain and work on a repeatable stroke
3.To check the table conditions,( I learn a lot doing by this)
4.To Intimidate And to show off

Quick note, I'm pretty good and quick at setting up the long cross corner to be dead on. Even when it's off just a little,all I have to do change my speed just a fraction and I will still make the ball.

The trick imo is the stun cue ball.That helps my angle going to the pocket and helps me make a bunch of em. Thanks for the question. I'll be back later and see what ya'll think about my observations and or musings. Later dudes John B.

 

[androd]

The balls likely aren't in a straight line - he's probably cutting the OB just slightly to the right so as to create predictable running English that also aids in pocketing a slightly errant hit.

You're correct Dan. I hadn't watched the video, just read the discription. My bad
He's lining up like you'd slow roll the bank, then adding a tip (apprx) to allow for the speed, which shortens the bank.
Rod.

 

[kollegedave]

Here comes Johnny:lol I think everyone added some some very thoughtful and true statements as to why and how I shoot these shots ( everyone)

I don't have much time right now but I'll try to give a quick run down.( going to practice all day)

1. to gain confidence
2.To gain and work on a repeatable stroke
3.To check the table conditions,( I learn a lot doing by this)
4.To Intimidate And to show off

Quick note, I'm pretty good and quick at setting up the long cross corner to be dead on. Even when it's off just a little,all I have to do change my speed just a fraction and I will still make the ball.

The trick imo is the stun cue ball.That helps my angle going to the pocket and helps me make a bunch of em. Thanks for the question. I'll be back later and see what ya'll think about my observations and or musings. Later dudes John B.

John,

Thank you for taking the time to share this knowledge. If I draw you at the DCC, I fully intend to use your knowledge against you...but, I am sure I will lose anyway.

kollegedave