Crazy Game - Fouls Dont Count - Fouls Equal Ball in Hand

[onepockethacker]

I'm such a little fish I sleep in a demitasse cup, not a big scary aquarium.

Actually we flushed you down the toilet a while ago:lol:lol

 

[LSJohn]

Actually we flushed you down the toilet a while ago:lol:lol

::Glub, Glub::

I'm baaaaaack!

*hic*

 

[NH Steve]

I have no idea about the spot, but I do know that in Fats bio, he made a huge point of stressing how he didn't get to the top in One Pocket until he learned how to give the "your fouls don't count" spot, with which he beat the top NY money man at the time 'Big Henry' or something.

The thing with any special spot is if it entices someone to gamble that would otherwise not, because they think they now have the best of it, well that is the point, right? But whoever is giving the spot has to have some kind of plan or experience as to how it can still play out to their advantage.

It's quite possible that no one would give that kind spot to any player that would truly know how to take advantage of receiving it -- and someone who can run balls i.e. like onepockethacker.

 

[Jeff sparks]

Just curious if anyone has got or given this spot. Your fouls don't count and if your opponent fouls its ball in hand. Seems absolutely huge and what would it be compared to ball spot wise?

Used to be quite common in the old days, never heard of the opponents foul, ball in hand thing though, but "Your fouls don't count" was a game that was generally made by a strong player offering it to a much weaker player to get them to play.

Generally speaking, and this is JMO, if you could play someone 11/7, you could play them even, both go to 8, and their fouls don't count.

As I said in an earlier reply, beating a good player to the shot doesn't happen all that often, especially by a much weaker player, and the weaker player must also make 8.

 

[onepockethacker]

Used to be quite common in the old days, never heard of the opponents foul, ball in hand thing though, but "Your fouls don't count" was a game that was generally made by a strong player offering it to a much weaker player to get them to play.

Generally speaking, and this is JMO, if you could play someone 11/7, you could play them even, both go to 8, and their fouls don't count.

As I said in an earlier reply, beating a good player to the shot doesn't happen all that often, especially by a much weaker player, and the weaker player must also make 8.

Do you realize the difference in the two games? Night and Day when you throw in the ball in hand rule.

 

[Jeff sparks]

Do you realize the difference in the two games? Night and Day when you throw in the ball in hand rule.

Yep, but I never heard of it, don't know anything about it, and couldn't handicap it to a ball spot! Can you?

 

[onepockethacker]

Yep, but I never heard of it, don't know anything about it, and couldn't handicap it to a ball spot! Can you?

Well I can assure you and the rest of the guys suggesting its a 2 to 3 ball spot are not EVEN CLOSE.. Its probably worth at least 6 balls
P.S. In post #4 you said its been around forever..

 

[Jeff sparks]

Well I can assure you and the rest of the guys suggesting its a 2 to 3 ball spot are not EVEN CLOSE.. Its probably worth at least 6 balls
P.S. In post #4 you said its been around forever..

Sorry,

I just didn't read the original post thoroughly, I'm laying it off to having a senior moment. You're absolutely correct, it would be an entirely different game, one I've never heard of before, and I certainly wouldn't have the slightest idea how to handicap it, except to say it would be a lot more than just "Your fouls don't count"

 

[beatle]

rob, if its worth 6 balls try giving someone you play about even with 8 to 2.
or even 8 to 3 so you can be stealing and see how you do.

 

[Jimmy B]

Sounds like a game The Viffer would come up with to try to turn it around on the big guns. Nice...

 

[onepockethacker]

rob, if its worth 6 balls try giving someone you play about even with 8 to 2.
or even 8 to 3 so you can be stealing and see how you do.

I will play someone I play even 14 to 8 and you can stake them and see how you do.. Your guy should be stealing getting the 6 balls advantage right?

 

[beatle]

thats not 6 balls when you talk about what a spot is worth.

when someone says two balls it means 8 to 6. not 14 to 12 or something.

you will find the player that is smart and giving the spot wont be making any scratches himself, so you would only see ball in hand when he pockets the cueball. and then you would get it behind the line anyway and have shots.

his big penalty would be in not being able to take intentionals, and losing most games he lets the cueball go in.

 

[LSJohn]

thats not 6 balls when you talk about what a spot is worth.

when someone says two balls it means 8 to 6. not 14 to 12 or something.

you will find the player that is smart and giving the spot wont be making any scratches himself, so you would only see ball in hand when he pockets the cueball. and then you would get it behind the line anyway and have shots.

his big penalty would be in not being able to take intentionals, and losing most games he lets the cueball go in.

Behind-the-line would make a big difference, but I took ball in hand to mean ball in hand.

 

[wincardona]

Who really knows?

Who really knows?

I just talked to Jack Cooney about this prop and asked him in a certain way how he would evaluate the spot. I'm just talking about the prop with ..fouls don't count..not including the ball in hand for the other player part of it.:sorry

His answer was that for a weaker player receiving the spot it was worth around 9/7, however, for two top players it is worth more, maybe around 11/7, which was still a speculation. I often heard from players in the past that it was worth a little over a ball, which I didn't believe but I couldn't rebut because I never played the game with the exception of just once. The short time that I played the game I could feel the strength of the game and my opponent wasn't a good player but he was a smart one. However, there were times when imo he should of used the scratch in a different way and i'm glad he didn't. Based off of my limited experience with the spot I have always felt it was clearly worth more than a ball, but really never gave it much thought. My feeling on it today after listening to every one debate it and talking to Jack, i'm thinking around 10-6 for top players and Really don't have an opinion on a weak player.

I believe 10/6 for top players because the only way a top player can beat another top player and give scratches up is to play very aggressively, which lends to large spreads, as opposed to close games.

Dr. Bill

 

[onepockethacker]

I just talked to Jack Cooney about this prop and asked him in a certain way how he would evaluate the spot. I'm just talking about the prop with ..fouls don't count..not including the ball in hand for the other player part of it.:sorry

His answer was that for a weaker player receiving the spot it was worth around 9/7, however, for two top players it is worth more, maybe around 11/7, which was still a speculation. I often heard from players in the past that it was worth a little over a ball, which I didn't believe but I couldn't rebut because I never played the game with the exception of just once. The short time that I played the game I could feel the strength of the game and my opponent wasn't a good player but he was a smart one. However, there were times when imo he should of used the scratch in a different way and i'm glad he didn't. Based off of my limited experience with the spot I have always felt it was clearly worth more than a ball, but really never gave it much thought. My feeling on it today after listening to every one debate it and talking to Jack, i'm thinking around 10-6 for top players and Really don't have an opinion on a weak player.

I believe 10/6 for top players because the only way a top player can beat another top player and give scratches up is to play very aggressively, which lends to large spreads, as opposed to close games.

Dr. Bill

Now throw in BALL IN HAND ANYWHERE everytime you foul in anyway and what do you come up with?

 

[onepockethacker]

thats not 6 balls when you talk about what a spot is worth.

when someone says two balls it means 8 to 6. not 14 to 12 or something.

you will find the player that is smart and giving the spot wont be making any scratches himself, so you would only see ball in hand when he pockets the cueball. and then you would get it behind the line anyway and have shots.

his big penalty would be in not being able to take intentionals, and losing most games he lets the cueball go in.

Maybe you should reread Lennys opening post.. and actually try to figure out the game he suggested not the one you are talking about:frus unbelievable as usual

 

[androd]

I just talked to Jack Cooney about this prop and asked him in a certain way how he would evaluate the spot. I'm just talking about the prop with ..fouls don't count..not including the ball in hand for the other player part of it.:sorry

His answer was that for a weaker player receiving the spot it was worth around 9/7, however, for two top players it is worth more, maybe around 11/7, which was still a speculation. I often heard from players in the past that it was worth a little over a ball, which I didn't believe but I couldn't rebut because I never played the game with the exception of just once. The short time that I played the game I could feel the strength of the game and my opponent wasn't a good player but he was a smart one. However, there were times when imo he should of used the scratch in a different way and i'm glad he didn't. Based off of my limited experience with the spot I have always felt it was clearly worth more than a ball, but really never gave it much thought. My feeling on it today after listening to every one debate it and talking to Jack, i'm thinking around 10-6 for top players and Really don't have an opinion on a weak player.

I believe 10/6 for top players because the only way a top player can beat another top player and give scratches up is to play very aggressively, which lends to large spreads, as opposed to close games.

Dr. Bill

I believe in one of the previous long winded threads about this, I said about 1 1/2 balls or maybe 9/7.

Between good players their will only be a small number of free fouls taken
until the end game, if that happens.
You can't move a ball/balls away from the pocket without shooting.
Lagging under them does little good.

It's a much stronger weapon when a few balls are left up table.
Rod.
P.S. This is my opinion for Dr. Bill, I know it's not about the OP's question.

 

[Billy Jackets]

I'm like you Lenny , I can see a lot of ways to make people hate this game!
I doubt anybody will ever lose more than 20 dollars at it though.
Good luck bud , there are still tons of suckers out there , unfortunately they are almost always broke when you find them.