The Two Greatest One Pocket Player's of the last 40 Years might Finally Match Up!

[Terry Ardeno]

I did know of Alfredo de Oro before I heard of him also but I was a person who always thought that you should learn the history of the particular endeavor or hobby that you love. I believe that de Oro was the only or the first man to win titles in both pocketless and pocket tables.

Dennis

Right you are C.B.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

More reality: Buddy Hall wanted 10 to 8. Allan Hopkins wanted 8 to 7. Nick Varner wanted lessons. Ronnie couldnt get a backer. Lenny Moore offered to stake Ronnie, but Artie would have had to agree to dumping his backers. Louie Roberts wouldnt even try to make a game. George Brunt got a ball and the break. George Pawalski, a 300 ball runner, a guy who gave Tommy Spencer the 8 ball and stuck him up, got 8 to 5 from Artie and only lasted a few games. Larry Hubbard wouldnt match up. Romberg gave Hubbard a ball and the break and robbed him. Romberg would never even try and match up with Artie. And let us never forget Cornbreads opinion of his speed.



One final reality. Anybody who knows me, knows that for me to stick up for that guy is like sticking forks in my eyeballs. Keep in mind I had to resort to being number two for 20 years. But I must defend the legacy of pool, not just Artie, in Chicago in the 60s, 70s and 80s, and I am going to make sure that people do not forget Artie Bodendorfer, because he reflects who I am and who I was. Peace.

Beard

Fred,
The first paragraph I quoted from you, it's just amazing. I have never known you to lie, ever. So I have to believe what you wrote there. But man alive, that's just so hard to believe if someone ain't never seen it first hand. That is in no way casting doubt on what you wrote, it's just unbelievable. On any given day, the talent level of the really elite players ebbs up or down just a little. Nobody ever plays at 100% of their speed forever on end. According to what is written about Sir Arthur, he has to have been the very best greatest top shelf shooter of all time! Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins and them other fellas were and still are bonafide super-star legends. Hard to fathom that A.B. was that superior to them. But like you said, guys like me never saw him play. Sill, that's an amazing paragraph you penned.

As for the second paragraph I quoted you saying, I understand 100% where you are coming from with that. I even knew that before I read what you wrote. You have had, have and always will have a great heart for pool and your fellow competitors. Good for you Beard!

 

[fred bentivegna]

Most are still alive

Most are still alive

Fred,
The first paragraph I quoted from you, it's just amazing. I have never known you to lie, ever. So I have to believe what you wrote there. But man alive, that's just so hard to believe if someone ain't never seen it first hand. That is in no way casting doubt on what you wrote, it's just unbelievable. On any given day, the talent level of the really elite players ebbs up or down just a little. Nobody ever plays at 100% of their speed forever on end. According to what is written about Sir Arthur, he has to have been the very best greatest top shelf shooter of all time! Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins and them other fellas were and still are bonafide super-star legends. Hard to fathom that A.B. was that superior to them. But like you said, guys like me never saw him play. Sill, that's an amazing paragraph you penned.

As for the second paragraph I quoted you saying, I understand 100% where you are coming from with that. I even knew that before I read what you wrote. You have had, have and always will have a great heart for pool and your fellow competitors. Good for you Beard!

Most of the people I mentioned are still alive. If anybody wants to rev them up to challenge what I said, I'll be here for them.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Just the ones off of my beat list

Just the ones off of my beat list

Pretty broad statement there Fred...

Let me just say that the if the residents (and pool room regulars).. .of the states of California, (Cochrans, Hard Times) Texas, (Times Square, Cotton Bowl, Le Cue) Oklahoma (Truelove's) Louisiana (Guys and Dolls, Sport Palace)...The entire Northwest, Most of the Midwest, and most of the south,....Had never heard of him UNTIL your erstwhile (and successful) efforts to get him in the 1 Pocket HOF, then well, he was a little short of a "known" player.

If John Henderson, Rodney Stevens, or myself, had never even heard his NAME mentioned, I would have to say "ALL" his peers did not know him from Adam. As I have said before, the best undecover man in pool, your friend Jack Cooney, was a "household name" compared to AB.

I am bad with names, but those other two guys, between them, knew every player on the planet. (well except maybe for one).

Sand Duck <---knows getting you to admit he was only a "local" legend,...will be a daunting (if not impossible) task...

PS..This may be my only effort at it.

Duck, I must again apologize that I somehow always manage to not fit into your esoteric little universe. But take my word for it, I did exist here on earth for the last 70 years. Honest. I concede that we have to operate from, "if you dont know about it, it dont count," but I am going to make a laborious attempt to expound on my point using my now infamous "beat" list.


Guys I beat that knew Artie in the 70s and 80s


John Abruzzo yes
Robert Agins yes
Ronnie Allen yes
Richie Ambrose yes
Donnie Anderson yes
Mike Bandy yes
xx Barline yes Detroit Rack
Jaffar Basheer yes Patch eye
Iceman Black Iceman yes
Rusty Brandymeyer yes
Tony Brewer yes Tough Tony
James Brown yes Youngblood
George Brunt yes
Billy Burge yes
xxx Cannella yes Mexican champ
Mike Carella yes
Vince Carelli yes Pancho
Jeff Carter yes
Johnny Chapman yes Cannonball
xx Chi Chi yes Mexican
Clyde Childress yes
Fat Chino yes
xx Cletus yes Detroit
Wade Crane yes
Alphonso Daniels yes
Danny Di Liberto yes
Cole Dickson yes
Vernon Eliot yes
Berle Gabbard yes
Chris Gentile yes
Joe Gold yes
Cecil Buddy Hall yes
Bud Harris yes
Marvin Henderson yes
Allen Hopkins yes
Bill Incardona yes
Charlie Jones yes KY
Leon Ledford yes
Eddie Matthews yes Milwaukee
John Mc Cue yes
Keith McCready yes
Danny Medina yes
Howard Meechum yes The Coward
George Michaels yes
Bill Mielke yes
Al Miller yes
Willie Munson yes
Bruce Perri yes
Jimmy Reid yes
Jim Rempe yes
Kenny Remus yes Romberg
Chuey Rivera yes
Louie Roberts yes
Joe Rocha yes
Glen Rogers yes Piggy banks
Bernard Rogoff yes Pots and pans
Don Rose yes
Leonard Rucker yes Bugs
Ike Runnels yes
Denny Searcy yes
Mike Sigel yes
David Sizemore yes
JohnnyboySkinner yes
Joe Solomon yes
Gary Spaeth yes
Joey Spaeth yes
Tommy Spencer yes
Earl Strickland yes
Larry Swartz yes
Cecil Tugwell yes
Nick Varner yes
John Vasquez yes Mexican Johnny
George Walker yes
xx Watson yes Detroit Rack
Dick Weaver yes
Wendell Weir yes
Alton Whitlow yes Baby Face
John Zaksas yes


Guys off my beat list that probably didnt know Artie in 70s and 80s
Paul Baker dont know Iowa Paul
Jay Helfert maybe
Floyd Baxter no
Ray Booth no
Louis Bramlett no Little hand
California Shorty no
Country Calvin no
Hubert Cokes no
Nate Colbert no Black Nate
George Cole no
Tony Coleman no Tony Banks
Billy Corelli no
Sam Crotzer no Crying Sam
Johnny Dollar maybe
Jamie Farrell no
Tony Ferguson no Fargo
Rich Geiler no
Roger Griffis no
Truman Hogue no
Tony Howard no One eye
Jew Town Red no
Cliff Joyner no
Eddie Kelly no
Glen Knowles no Fat Glen
Peter Linhard no Peter rabbit
Larry Lisciotti no
xxx Long Beach no
Jimmy Marino no
Marco Marquez no
Steve Mizerak no
Jose Parica no
Gary Pinkowski no
Dave Piona no
Efren Reyes no
Skippy Riggs no Le Cue
Freddy Sessions no New orleans
Harry Sexton maybe Poochy
Steve Smith no Lizard
Greg Stevens no
Bill Stigall no
Joey Torma no Dallas Joey
Jesse Webb no one eye
Billy Weir no
Al Werline no
Robert Rags Woods no
Dave Yeager no

More that knew him but who were not on my original list
Boston Shorty
Jersey Red
Danny Jones
Jew Paul
John Hager Sr.
Agusatate
Miami
Weanie Beanie
Detroit Whitey
Canadian Pete
Monk Costanza
Little Sergio
Bernie Swartz the Hawk

All that I can think of at the moment. The man was hardly a phantom.

Beard

I was checking my files and I just realized that the list I put up is a very old one and very incomplete. I have another 100 names to add but I aint gonna take the time. This is certainly enough.

 

[usblues]

St Louie

St Louie

Freddie,when you say Louie Roberts didnt play,do you mean he didnt bother trying or Artie and him couldnt come to an agreement?

 

[fred bentivegna]

One pocket only

One pocket only

Freddie,when you say Louie Roberts didnt play,do you mean he didnt bother trying or Artie and him couldnt come to an agreement?

The only thing Artie would play Louie was 8 ball or One pocket. Louie hung in my joint, North Shore Billiards for months and never tried to match up playing Artie onepocket. He played everybody else, including me, but he never played Artie. Artie would match up with anybody playing one pocket.

Beard

 

[usblues]

Patience???

Patience???

Gotcha,just curious,gracious.......

 

[philip guagliardo]

Hi

Hi

Dennis , Your not a knocker ? It seems like that's what you were doing about the match by sharing your opinion more or less that it would suck !! I guess we all have the right to discredit former top players and i'm sure we could do that in all sports . Your opinion on people you never seen play and how they will be remember is worth about 2 cents in yen . I guess you think Mosconi - Greenleaf - Worst - Bugs won't be remembered and your right they won't be remembered by you , but there will be a lot of players that will read about them in the future just as other sports figures like Snead & Hogan !! Get my point ! Just because you won't that doesn't mean other won't . You like to give your opinion and I like to give mine and its nothing new to me because I also chat on a horse forum where posters have an opinion even though they haven't a clue what their talking about . I'm glad your happy with yourself and have money in the bank and you work even though I didn't need to know all that and i'm more concerned why you think seeing two great players would have been bad . I enjoyed Mosconi & Fats playing each other even though they were over the hill !!! But thats me , and I kind of love watching superstars even when there OLD .

You kind of make me feel bad because my friend Jimmy Mataya introduced me as a racetrack legend in chicago to some guys I probably never will see again at the Cub game the other night !! Oh well I hope they remember me for at least a week !! I have to be blunt !! Your just not a nice fella , but no hard feelings I have met a lot of guys like you that refuse to give credit and find reasons not too . I hate to say all this but , you know I have an opinion too

Phil

You know its possible that others don't live in your world or mine !

Oh by the way why don't you suggest to Steve who puts these players in the one pocket hall of fame so they will be remembered to just stop because its all in vain !! Nobody will remember them according to you !

 

[mr3cushion]

Dennis , Your not a knocker ? It seems like that's what you were doing about the match by sharing your opinion more or less that it would suck !! I guess we all have the right to discredit former top players and i'm sure we could do that in all sports . Your opinion on people you never seen play and how they will be remember is worth about 2 cents in yen . I guess you think Mosconi - Greenleaf - Worst - Bugs won't be remembered and your right they won't be remembered by you , but there will be a lot of players that will read about them in the future just as other sports figures like Snead & Hogan !! Get my point ! Just because you won't that doesn't mean other won't . You like to give your opinion and I like to give mine and its nothing new to me because I also chat on a horse forum where posters have an opinion even though they haven't a clue what their talking about . I'm glad your happy with yourself and have money in the bank and you work even though I didn't need to know all that and i'm more concerned why you think seeing two great players would have been bad . I enjoyed Mosconi & Fats playing each other even though they were over the hill !!! But thats me , and I kind of love watching superstars even when there OLD .

You kind of make me feel bad because my friend Jimmy Mataya introduced me as a racetrack legend in chicago to some guys I probably never will see again at the Cub game the other night !! Oh well I hope they remember me for at least a week !! I have to be blunt !! Your just not a nice fella , but no hard feelings I have met a lot of guys like you that refuse to give credit and find reasons not too . I hate to say all this but , you know I have an opinion too

Phil

You know its possible that others don't live in your world or mine !

Oh by the way why don't you suggest to Steve who puts these players in the one pocket hall of fame so they will be remembered to just stop because its all in vain !! Nobody will remember them according to you !

An excelent post, Phil. I myself am always shocked when people give an opinion on a subject or persons or idiology they have never encountered. Certain people on this forum keep refering that Artie never left the Bensinger's and he was a 1 table player and just played suckers and soft action. NOT TRUE, I wittnessed many matches with the players that Freddie has on his LIST. Just because some of the so called top players on this forum never ran into him on the road does not mean he wasn't out doing what he does best, WIN. Phil, your statement about Father Time visits all no eceptions is so true, maybe in Artie and Ronnie's case he's been a little more harsh than for others. But I can tell you for a fact Artie still has the determination to try to play perfect one pocket even with deminished skills.

BTW, I'm just curious about what ever happened to matches that were agreed to with him MANY months ago from CD to play for $10,000.00 and SJD to play for the same amount. You all know his speed now, helpless, one tenth of what it used to be. But He'll still play. Maybe he has to be in a wheel-chair for these guys to step up.

If John Henderson reads this post, Artie says he has the upmost respect for you as a MAN and GAMBLER playing pool. He was hoping you guys could have the rubber match at the DERBY next year.

I really don't like to get in the middle of this s**t, but this relentless denying and doubting Artie's ability to play and WIN is just a shame. I and many others, not only from Chicago have seen with thier own eyes the TOP players Artie not only BEAT but TORTURED playing one pocket. Second-hand information is a very unreliable source for people to base thier opinion of someone, especially in the pool world, That's how players get trapped!

We all like to give credit to someone we know personally than people we don't, it's the nature of the beast, but to desparich a player and to insult the people that REALLY saw him play by not believing what they have said is a shame. The people that did not see Artie play in his prime really missed an opportunity to see a whole other side to a GREAT and DIFFICULT game, like many great sports figures he made it look easy, simple and boring.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[SJDinPHX]

BTW, I'm just curious about what ever happened to matches that were agreed to with him MANY months ago from CD to play for $10,000.00 and SJD to play for the same amount. You all know his speed now, helpless, one tenth of what it used to be. But He'll still play. Maybe he has to be in a wheel-chair for these guys to step up.


Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Nice of you to bring that up Bill. I can not speak for Dennis, but If you remember the back and forth going on then,...I had all my ducks in a row at that time. 5K of my own, and the other 5K from members of this forum.

An unfortunate event took place right at that time, and I had to postpone the match, for which naturally I took a lot of crap from AB and others over.

Just bet your ass, I would have played, and also know that I had a good piece of John's action BOTH plays with Artie, and I will have again if they play the rubber match.

I'm sure Artie was a hell of a player in his prime. It just seems strange that, except for a few hardcore Chicago scuffs, VERY FEW OTHERS can attest to it.

In my opinion, there are a couple dozen one hole player's out there, who mixed it up ALL OVER the country, who deserved to be inducted ahead of AB.

I'm not buying Fred's story about why they never played...He is recalling ONE isolated incident to prove his point...RA could have stopped any man on the street, and gotten staked to play ANYONE.

There is NO pool player alive that never heard of Ronnie Allen.That is a legacy HE EARNED, the hard way.

 

[mr3cushion]

Nice of you to bring that up Bill. I can not speak for Dennis, but If you remember the back and forth going on then,...I had all my ducks in a row at that time. 5K of my own, and the other 5K from members of this forum.

An unfortunate event took place right at that time, and I had to postpone the match, for which naturally I took a lot of crap from AB and others over.

Just bet your ass, I would have played, and also know that I had a good piece of John's action BOTH plays with Artie, and I will have again if they play the rubber match.

I'm sure Artie was a hell of a player in his prime. It just seems strange that, except for a few hardcore Chicago scuffs, VERY FEW OTHERS can attest to it.

In my opinion, there are a couple dozen one hole player's out there, who mixed it up ALL OVER the country, who deserved to be inducted ahead of AB.

I'm not buying Fred's story about why they never played...He is recalling ONE isolated incident to prove his point...RA could have stopped any man on the street, and gotten staked to play ANYONE.

There is NO pool player alive that never heard of Ronnie Allen.That is a legacy HE EARNED, the hard way.

I understand now the circumstances that prevented you and Artie from playing then, what about now?. I understand you may need time to adjust to a new lifestyle, the DCC is next year, plenty of time to get in shape physically and mentally.

How about having the people that are still alive that ARE TOP players attesting to his playing, Nick Varner, Jack Cooney, Miami, David Howard, Buddy Hall, ect..ect.

Do you think the qualifications to be inducted to the 1 P HOF requires being a road player?, everyone in the country during the late 60's early 70's and 80's new all they had to do was come to Chicago to play and carry back all they could WIN! Only one player got the job done, Johnny Cannila from Mexico playing 8 Ball. Artie didn't have a chance, the man only missed 2 balls in 8 hrs, the best pool I've ever seen.

Ronnie was known by many people for many reasons, not always the right ones, also, Ronnie enjoyed the limelight and prestige more than Artie, Artie just wanted the MONEY and to WIN!

My last thought, don't take this too personal, I get a sense from your tone you feel a little slighted that you have not yet been inducted to the HOF, I understand. With some of the political views that you have of the world, I'm sure some kind of politics trickles into every facet of life, even pool. But, trust me, Artie deserves much more than credited for. I guarantee if Artie had this Dippy Dave guy in hand he would have been broke by now, and be looking to borrow and play Artie again!

Just lijke everyone on this forum, they like to clean thier post up by saying JMHO, I will too, but my EYES didn't deceive me, I know what I wittnessed.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[jrhendy]

If John Henderson reads this post, Artie says he has the upmost respect for you as a MAN and GAMBLER playing pool. He was hoping you guys could have the rubber match at the DERBY next year.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

I am looking forward to The Derby and hope Artie and I get to play the rubber match.

Having played him two matches that lasted about 27 hours, I can tell you if we do play, it will be another tortureous marathon and I will love every minute of it. Artie is a gentleman to play with and I believe he enjoys it as much as I do, win or lose.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Just lijke everyone on this forum, they like to clean thier post up by saying JMHO, I will too, but my EYES didn't deceive me, I know what I wittnessed.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Thank you for proving my point Bill...You, Freddy, Phil, and anyone else from Chicago...WITNESSED almost ALL of his play.

You really don't get it do you, Bill ?...I have said repeatedly on this forum, that I thought I was way down on the list of player's deserving of the HOF.
And for my money..so was Artie.

I also don't think only roadmen should be elgible...I just think that to be considered a KNOWN player, should encompass more than a 50 mile radius.

If you are going to be a spokesman, for Artie and I matching up someday, hard as it is to say...I WOULD PREFER ARTIE !!!! (JMHO)

 

[androd]

BTW, I'm just curious about what ever happened to matches that were agreed to with him MANY months ago from CD to play for $10,000.00 and SJD to play for the same amount. You all know his speed now, helpless, one tenth of what it used to be. But He'll still play. Maybe he has to be in a wheel-chair for these guys to step up.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Do you play ?
Why are you so interested in matching up a bunch of old
hackers.
Rod.

 

[mr3cushion]

Do you play ?
Why are you so interested in matching up a bunch of old
hackers.
Rod.

YES I DO. How about YOU? I just like to see if thier bite is as bad as thier bark.

At 65 I'm also available to play my NITCH game!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[SJDinPHX]

YES I DO. How about YOU? I just like to see if thier bite is as bad as thier bark.

At 65 I'm also available to play my NITCH game!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Gotta run now, but in ending this enjoyable exchange...let me just say, there are at least two or three old hackers on here (who will spot you several years in age) and will play YOU ANY GAME ON A POOL TABLE with pockets, and I'm one of them.

Naturally one pocket is prefered...this is NOT called "3Cushion.org"...is it ???

 

[mr3cushion]

Gotta run now, but in ending this enjoyable exchange...let me just say, there are at least two or three old hackers on here (who will spot you several years in age) and will play YOU ANY GAME ON A POOL TABLE with pockets, and I'm one of them.

Naturally one pocket is prefered...this is NOT called "3Cushion.org"...is it ???

ANYBODY on this site can get a 1 and 1, I don't need a spot, any time your heart starts pumping again!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[fred bentivegna]

Your opinion

Your opinion

Dick, you keep referring to your "opinion." Your opinion. Your opinion, in my opinion, aint worth two dead flies. I keep presenting evidence and you keep presenting your opinion. Your secondhand opinion. Your opinion garnered driving a UPS truck. I never left the circuit. I stayed with it. Your opinion on pool history, next to mine, is embarassing. I know everybody, everybody knows me, and who the f8ck knows you? The nerve you have to keep refuting everything I have to say is infuriating. Where did you get all your facts? Reading the Billiard News? I was in the poolroom pal. Where were you? I''m still waiting for a PLAYER to come on board and refute what I have said. Ok, not many players come on the forums, but how about the shortstops that do come on the forums and know PLAYERS. When is one of them going to say, "You know I talked to Buddy Hall and I asked him about what the Beard said, and he told me the Beard was full of sh*t." When is that going to happen?

You are operating out of a Anti-Beard, Anti-Artie, Anti-Chicago, Anti-ALL Club, and you are the only member and the only witness, and on top of that you havent witnessed anything since 1960! I put up names, dates, places and you put up "IMO," and totally ignore and sidestep my points, and condede me zero credit for them, and then go back to your baseless, wishful thinking opinions.

I have no beef with someones opinion, but you cite yours as if you had God as a backer.

I put up a list of 90 plus known players that all knew Artie and his speed, and you just ignore that, and go back to "IMO," without a shred to back it up. If I think about it I can come up with a 100 more. You gave that point zero acknowledgement, as if I'm some kind of moron to be ignored. With a flick of your sick brain you discarded a list that included some of the best players that ever lived. That tells me that you think that whatever I have to say aint worth sh*t. I have got way too much ego, and self esteem to not be outraged by that, brother.

This is real personal to me. Behind all of that is an affront to me, because if you knock Artie that is a direct reflection on me, because I was the next guy to him and Bugs.

"I'm not buying Fred's story..." again youre calling me a liar. The most I ever call you is uninformed and resentful. Race Track Phil was Arties backer the day Ronnie couldnt get staked. He tells the same story I do. Phil had 50k in his pocket dying to get into action. I would strongly recommend that you dont refute his telling of the same story.

Youve got something eating at you re, me, Chicago and especially Artie. All this bulls*t about reconciling aint ever gonna work until you get that sh*t out of your system and get over whatever it is.

When you say dozens of players belong in the HOF over Artie, the only thing that I have heard lately that is more out of line, is when Congress tells us the Stimulus is working. Or maybe when Dippy Dave said you dont have to make him post.

Beard

Go get you a "Chicago" exorcism so we can move on.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick, you keep referring to your "opinion." Your opinion. Your opinion, in my opinion, aint worth two dead flies. I keep presenting evidence and you keep presenting your opinion. Your secondhand opinion. Your opinion garnered driving a UPS truck. I never left the circuit. I stayed with it. Your opinion on pool history, next to mine, is embarassing. I know everybody, everybody knows me, and who the f8ck knows you? The nerve you have to keep refuting everything I have to say is infuriating. Where did you get all your facts? Reading the Billiard News? I was in the poolroom pal. Where were you? I''m still waiting for a PLAYER to come on board and refute what I have said. Ok, not many players come on the forums, but how about the shortstops that do come on the forums and know PLAYERS. When is one of them going to say, "You know I talked to Buddy Hall and I asked him about what the Beard said, and he told me the Beard was full of sh*t." When is that going to happen?

You are operating out of a Anti-Beard, Anti-Artie, Anti-Chicago, Anti-ALL Club, and you are the only member and the only witness, and on top of that you havent witnessed anything since 1960! I put up names, dates, places and you put up "IMO," and totally ignore and sidestep my points, and condede me zero credit for them, and then go back to your baseless, wishful thinking opinions.

I have no beef with someones opinion, but you cite yours as if you had God as a backer.

I put up a list of 90 plus known players that all knew Artie and his speed, and you just ignore that, and go back to "IMO," without a shred to back it up. If I think about it I can come up with a 100 more. You gave that point zero acknowledgement, as if I'm some kind of moron to be ignored. With a flick of your sick brain you discarded a list that included some of the best players that ever lived. That tells me that you think that whatever I have to say aint worth sh*t. I have got way too much ego, and self esteem to not be outraged by that, brother.

This is real personal to me. Behind all of that is an affront to me, because if you knock Artie that is a direct reflection on me, because I was the next guy to him and Bugs.

"I'm not buying Fred's story..." again youre calling me a liar. The most I ever call you is uninformed and resentful. Race Track Phil was Arties backer the day Ronnie couldnt get staked. He tells the same story I do. Phil had 50k in his pocket dying to get into action. I would strongly recommend that you dont refute his telling of the same story.

Youve got something eating at you re, me, Chicago and especially Artie. All this bulls*t about reconciling aint ever gonna work until you get that sh*t out of your system and get over whatever it is.

When you say dozens of players belong in the HOF over Artie, the only thing that I have heard lately that is more out of line, is when Congress tells us the Stimulus is working. Or maybe when Dippy Dave said you dont have to make him post.

Beard

Go get you a "Chicago" exorcism so we can move on.

Fred,

I thought we had reached some sort of impasse. Apparently not
Regarding the RA/AB story, ...I said it WAS, and IS a one time "ISOLATED INCIDENT". By not buying your story, I meant there was more to it..I did not say it never happened. I have talked to RA about it several times. His version is quite different than yours, with only a few similarities. Neither one of you is a threat to George Washington.

Do you honestly believe that RA could not have gotten staked to play Artie (even giving him weight)... if he had come to California. You don't think AB could have REALLY got his sack full in that spot ? (if he could have won)

I know Phil is a REAL gambler, and I respect that...in fact I'd heard of him before either you or AB.. He could have taken a few bucks of that 50K and got him and AB a plane ticket to LA...they have horses there too....They could have made a REAL parley..

For you to come out throwing insults at me, over a small crack I made, to that other "opinionated Chicago jerk"...tells me where I stand in your eyes. And know what...I could care less. By the way...your ego FAR outweighs your self-esteem.

Take your precious "legacy" and your "hero worshipping ass, and stick them where the sun don't shine..

PS..You are only re-enforcing the fact, that I made the right decision missing the 70's and 80's in the [sic] pool world.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I have only been playing pool for around 6-7 years so I guess I am still wet behind the ears. I still feel that since I have submerged myself fully into the game for a bit now I have a right to post some stuff with you legends. Some of you may be too stubborn to listen to Lenny because you have socks older then me but that is okay too.

I think many people on the west cost knew of Dick years ago, he took his hiatus and new players came around. As for Freddy he was from Chicago as was Artie, I am sure in that area both are very well known but are they well know on the west coast back before the age of the internutz.

Before I moved to AZ I lived in NY and when I got into one pocket which believe it or not was 1 year or so into my pool playing, I read a book. I read Eddie Robins book which an older guy loaned me and in it was San Jose Dick, I remembered his name because he was mentioned many times in it. I do not know if it was God or the devil who sent me here to AZ but I will tell you this it is interesting to meet people like Dick whom I read about, and also Scott Frost who is the best one pocket player in the US, its really great to be here.

I do think many people know Freddy because of the age of the internet and Freddy having his site and being in the mix with the One Pocket HOF and Banks HOF, so yes more people know Freddy. More people actually probably know me because of my site then Dick but what does that really mean?, Dick is playing terribly and can still spot me 9-7 so my notoriety means nothing. I do plan on taking 9-7 and the breaks next time me and Dick are in a pool room and issuing some torture on him.

As for Artie I think he is was not very well known until Freddy posted about him and he got active on here and AZ Billiards. I think the sad part we are over looking is that players of today regardless if they are top flight are getting more recognition because of the internet, the players of the past are talked about in threads here and there but before the info age most just were lost to time unfortunately. I might be rambling but I am sure you can find something in my post that makes sense. I just think its all relative to where you lived or the times as they were then and are now.

I have seen Freddy's list and think its impressive but was curious if he beat all of these guys even or not, to me that is important. I would like to see a list with what the spots were giving or getting and whom he played even along with what game. I can say I beat Scott Frost but if I am getting 11-5 it does not mean very much. What about SJD, I know he has played some good players too, but what was he giving or getting, in his prime who spotted him and who was he spotting?

Well gotta run and make some pasta, cant drink until after 8pm, I am half Irish and half Italian so I like both of you guys. I still would like to see a game with both of you, banks, one pocket and perhaps last pocket 8 ball at DCC.