Tight Tables

[Richard S]

The tight Diamond tables that are used in many of the One Pocket tournaments generally have 4 inch pocket openings, I think. The hard rubber inserts on my Gold Crown IV have 4 inch openings and the pocket openings are 4 3/4 inches measured just inside the points. As we all know, playing on the tight tables we encounter a different game than that played on the tables with larger openings. The Gold Crown IV came from the factory, brand new, with the aforementioned openings.

I am wondering if it would be beneficial to have the rails replaced to produce the 4 inch openings. One would think that practice on the tight tables would produce better play, but I'm not really sure and am seeking input from the learned gentlemen on this forum.

Interestingly, I have bought a couple of instructional CD's that showed play on tables that seemed to have large sloppy pockets and forgiving rails.

Incidentally, my GC IV still looks and plays like brand new after 6 years.

Medicare baby richie

 

[fred bentivegna]

4 1/2

4 1/2

I am almost postive that the pocket openings on Diamonds are 4 1/2 in. Two object balls, 2 1/4 each fill up the opening.

Beard

 

[newfosgatesucks]

YES, but Do not spend that much money.

Go to O'Reilly's Auto parts, and purchase ONE truck mud flap. It will be in the back room, mediocre employees may not know what it is, find the freight guy or a manager.

The mud flap has a v-pattern cut in it. It just so happens that the thickness of the thin and thick sections are perfect for shimming, and if cut properly, can play as the rail does. It will outlast a pocket facing, as it is INTERNALLY bound, not external, and the hardness is such that the edges play darn near the same as the rail rubber. Been doing this trick for 4-5 years now. Hope it helps. If you want, you can use a hard facing inside, I leave the mudflap on the tables I play, it makes them slightly tougher under moist conditions.

That will cost you 11 bucks....Vs a new set of 200$ rails...It has sold me countless times, And I promise you you can bank accurate cross corner off of it, and it takes spin just like a rail.

A REAL table guy will break out the corner jigs, pitch tools,etc and charge about 160 for rail install including facings or more. If he charges less, you will probably not see a corner jig/etc and there is 360$ tied up WITHOUT cloth. Which is another 200 plus 150 installed...So there it is, about 700$ vs 440$ in each case using new cloth.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Well, there you go, Richie. I'll defer to NFGS. If he's a table mechanic, he probably knows what he's talking about.

I've always heard that it's better to get the longer rails to make the pockets smaller (I prefer 4-1/2). But if the truck flap rubber plays just as well, it's got to be cheaper.

If you're undecided, there's a Table Mechanic's forum on AZbilliards. Posing the same question there would probably produce a variety of options.

Doc

 

[Richard S]

Worth a Try

Worth a Try

Thanks guys, I might try the mud flap thing if I can figure out exactly how to do it. Actually, 4 1/2 is not a whole lot different than what I have; however, I know of some tables in this area that were bought following a big OP tournament in Baton Rouge in 1998 that have pocket openings that two balls will not fit into. Evidently this is an extreme case according to what I get from you guys.

If Doc and Freddie say 4 1/2 is appropriate, I can live with that.

 

[usblues]

Great

Great

Great tip NFGS,never heard that one.Nice when a table has pockets where 2 balls just fit snug,thanks,Bob

 

[fred bentivegna]

Need a little more explanation

Need a little more explanation

YES, but Do not spend that much money.

Go to O'Reilly's Auto parts, and purchase ONE truck mud flap. It will be in the back room, mediocre employees may not know what it is, find the freight guy or a manager.

The mud flap has a v-pattern cut in it. It just so happens that the thickness of the thin and thick sections are perfect for shimming, and if cut properly, can play as the rail does. It will outlast a pocket facing, as it is INTERNALLY bound, not external, and the hardness is such that the edges play darn near the same as the rail rubber. Been doing this trick for 4-5 years now. Hope it helps. If you want, you can use a hard facing inside, I leave the mudflap on the tables I play, it makes them slightly tougher under moist conditions.

That will cost you 11 bucks....Vs a new set of 200$ rails...It has sold me countless times, And I promise you you can bank accurate cross corner off of it, and it takes spin just like a rail.

A REAL table guy will break out the corner jigs, pitch tools,etc and charge about 160 for rail install including facings or more. If he charges less, you will probably not see a corner jig/etc and there is 360$ tied up WITHOUT cloth. Which is another 200 plus 150 installed...So there it is, about 700$ vs 440$ in each case using new cloth.

Do you use the mud flap for a facing or rail extention or both?

Beard

 

[Richard S]

More Information Indeed

More Information Indeed

I need to know if the mud flap shims go under the cloth on the rails. If they do, I'd need a table mechanic to pull this off as I would not attempt to remove the rails myself. I remember my mechanics hammering the rails into position in some kind of mounting slots(?)... I also can't imagine attaching them on top of the cloth ... I might try to leave well enough alone at 4 3/4 inches.

"I worry when I'm not worried that there's something I should be worrying about."
(Ad for a mental health facility)

richie

 

[wgcp]

idea from a rookie

idea from a rookie

I know I will catch grief for this post but... shooting to smaller pockets can lead to missing shots... I would think that using your practice table at the house is for running as many balls as possible for each and every inning that you shoot...
Especially when working out bank shots...Out of a hundred, 90 short rail banks made on big pockets, versus 70 on small pockets boosts your ego, even at my level which is pretty sad... making balls gives me confidence... If I miss a shot on a tight diamond I can rationalize it because of the small pockets and not despair as long...

I really think you should practice to larger pockets and use an hour or two warming up/ adjusting to a tighter tournament/money table prior to doing either...
Of course now that I said this everyone here will know that I don't have any speed at all, and that I really need 11-5.
B

 

[fred bentivegna]

Joe Procita

Joe Procita

I know I will catch grief for this post but... shooting to smaller pockets can lead to missing shots... I would think that using your practice table at the house is for running as many balls as possible for each and every inning that you shoot...
Especially when working out bank shots...Out of a hundred, 90 short rail banks made on big pockets, versus 70 on small pockets boosts your ego, even at my level which is pretty sad... making balls gives me confidence... If I miss a shot on a tight diamond I can rationalize it because of the small pockets and not despair as long...

I really think you should practice to larger pockets and use an hour or two warming up/ adjusting to a tighter tournament/money table prior to doing either...
Of course now that I said this everyone here will know that I don't have any speed at all, and that I really need 11-5.
B

I would like to interject the advice I got from the great Joe Procita regarding what size pocket table you should practice on. Back in the 60s old Joe told me to practice on bucket pockets in order to develop rhythm and speed of stroke. He said it is very difficult to get into dead stroke on a tough box.
My pal Geoge Fels got the same advice back then from Joe, and significant others, and follows it religiously when practicing straight pool. He practices on the sloppiest table at Chris's Billiards.

My regimen has always been to practice on easy but only bet on tough tables.
Unfortunately for me, the table in my basement is a tough monster.

Beard

 

[Richard S]

Good Advice

Good Advice

Thanks Freddie and WGCP for the advice and input. It looks like my 4 3/4 inch openings are not as loose as I thought, given they are only 1/4 inch wider than the ones described. Also, my rails are quite unforgiving and the pockets are definitely not sloppy loose.

Also, from Freddie's observation of Mr. Fels practicing on loose tables, this seems to be a viable activity. I'll have to hook up with WGCP when he returns from Disneyland in the Sand to compare notes. I also need to get together with Doc for the same thing ...

richie

 

[gulfportdoc]

I know I will catch grief for this post but... shooting to smaller pockets can lead to missing shots... I would think that using your practice table at the house is for running as many balls as possible for each and every inning that you shoot...Especially when working out bank shots...Out of a hundred, 90 short rail banks made on big pockets, versus 70 on small pockets boosts your ego, even at my level which is pretty sad... making balls gives me confidence... If I miss a shot on a tight diamond I can rationalize it because of the small pockets and not despair as long...

I really think you should practice to larger pockets and use an hour or two warming up/ adjusting to a tighter tournament/money table prior to doing either...

For what it's worth, Eddie Robin gave me the same advice. Running balls gives a guy confidence. I always think about that when these discussions of super tight practice tables come up.

My favorite is 4-1/2 inch pockets. I don't understand the allure of playing on tabes with 4" or less pockets. I think it's a form of "My dog is badder than your dog."

Doc

 

[usblues]

Amen Doc

Amen Doc

I hear ya Doc,playground or battleground,its nice when there just right,cheers,B

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

One would think that practice on the tight tables would produce better play, but I'm not really sure and am seeking input from the learned gentlemen on this forum.

Medicare baby richie

Richard,

I always liked to practice on the tightest tables I could find because that's what I'd be gambling on. In my opinion, it does produce better play.

Dennis

 

[Richard S]

Different Opinion - Interesting

Different Opinion - Interesting

Cowboy's opinion that tight tables are better for practice is interesting and indicates that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I guess it compares to the practice of swinging a weighted baseball bat to warm up, which probably prompted my original question.

I guess it's what makes the player feel best about practicing for improvement. I guess I'll have to start working on my transcendental molecular aiming system along with cue ball control.

richie

 

[Skin]

Cowboy's opinion that tight tables are better for practice is interesting and indicates that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I guess it compares to the practice of swinging a weighted baseball bat to warm up, which probably prompted my original question.

I guess it's what makes the player feel best about practicing for improvement. I guess I'll have to start working on my transcendental molecular aiming system along with cue ball control.

richie

Richie, practicing on tight tables is good for improving the depth and endurance of your concentration. For all the other stuff, all you need for practice is a good table. The center of the hole is the center of the hole, no matter the pocket size.

Skin

 

[lll]

I guess I'll have to start working on my transcendental molecular aiming system along with cue ball control.

richie

just buy the upgrade for the table ....... magnets that are at your control
skin although you are correct the center of the pocket is the center of the pocket when you play on more forgiving tables you get positive reinforcement ( ball goes in) for being less accurate.
therefore i agree with dennis wanting to play/practice on tougher tables.
id want to practice on tougher equipment relative to my skill for improvement.ie id let the pros play and practice on less than 4 inch pockets. id practice on 4 or 4 1/4 for example

 

[Skin]

just buy the upgrade for the table ....... magnets that are at your control
skin although you are correct the center of the pocket is the center of the pocket when you play on more forgiving tables you get positive reinforcement ( ball goes in) for being less accurate.
therefore i agree with dennis wanting to play/practice on tougher tables.
id want to practice on tougher equipment relative to my skill for improvement.ie id let the pros play and practice on less than 4 inch pockets. id practice on 4 or 4 1/4 for example

Larry, when you pratice with tight pockets you only get 20-30 minutes of useful feedback. The rest of the hour is wasted. If you practice with "sloppy" pockets, the useful feedback can last for an hour or more. IF your purpose is to keep your mechanics right, that is, which is the pretty much the only reason I practice.

Skin

 

[wgcp]

Hey, poplarville ms... this could be a future match in the spring... since I don't practice to small pockets think I could get 9-7 and the breaks?

Bille

 

[Richard S]

Weight!?

Weight!?

Hey WGCP we'll start out even and see what develops. I'm just an old broken down entrenching tool operator from the bad old days... but I am working on my transcendental molecular aiming system.

Seriously, I'd like to get together and play some OP. The closest decent place for me to play is here at home or in Gulfport.