Legal shot or foul?

[Skin]

Would you call a foul during a game on the "trick shot" Weenie Beenie makes in this video?

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Would you call a foul during a game on the "trick shot" Weenie Beenie makes in this video?

Skin

It's tough to tell from the old video but I'm fairly certain that that is a common trick shot that Byrnes has in his Trick Shot book. It's also my favorite trick shot to set up and shoot, I've shot it hundreds of times and it's no foul. It also looks like a slight variation of the Hustler shot that Gleason shoots.

Dennis

 

[Skin]

It's tough to tell from the old video but I'm fairly certain that that is a common trick shot that Byrnes has in his Trick Shot book. It's also my favorite trick shot to set up and shoot, I've shot it hundreds of times and it's no foul. It also looks like a slight variation of the Hustler shot that Gleason shoots.

Dennis

I'm not convinced, Dennis. I don't see how he got so much power into the shot without either pushing the cb or double hitting it. Hard to tell from the video, though, you are right. That's a shot that could produce an argument in case the opponent thought it was a foul. How would you resolve it? It looks to be very close if it is not a foul.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I'm not convinced, Dennis. I don't see how he got so much power into the shot without either pushing the cb or double hitting it. Hard to tell from the video, though, you are right. That's a shot that could produce an argument in case the opponent thought it was a foul. How would you resolve it? It looks to be very close if it is not a foul.

Skin

Absolutely uncertain from watching the vid but I have shot this so many times with a slight variation. Here's the basic shot as it looks on the video. I could be seeing it wrong but this is not out of the question to make. As long as it's set up correctly it's a cinch (almost) .

He hits the 1 then the 10 which hits the 13 sending the 11 ball (8 ball in the vid) off of several balls the last of which is the carom off the 5 ball(5 ball angle is the key to the shot). Cueball normally goes uptable and comes back off of the endrail. In the Hustler when Gleason shoots this shot you can see that he scratched in the same pocket where he made the object ball but they cut the camera right before it goes in.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVdP4BCpA3CCYA4DCpe4EEUr3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IAEe4JVkx4KEMO3LBKO4MGpK4NBal3OBJl4PYfW4UVdP3UDXt4YEUr4YBTc4eVkx4eJKQ4eYhGzc4fEMO4fEUU4fFSb4fchvzc4hGpK2hAJU4kYfW4kXxR4kXpK1kVBPzc@[/CUETABLE]

 

[Skin]

Dennis, I'd call a foul on him as a matter of principle and then see what happens next.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis, I'd call a foul on him as a matter of principle and then see what happens next.

Skin

Skin,

You might be calling a foul on him but you would not be calling one on me .

Not from that perspective of the shot. You obviously didn't feel like standing up and walking over to look at the shot .

In all seriousness, set this up one time and shoot it. It's a neat trick shot. Rack the 15 balls and then remove the headball and another to use. It's a sweet shot. You'll like it, I promise.

P.S. It's in Byrnes' "Treasury of Trick Shots in Pool and Billiards". He calls it "Mosconi's Hustler Shot".

Dennis

 

[Skin]

Skin,

You might be calling a foul on him but you would not be calling one on me .

Not from that perspective of the shot. You obviously didn't feel like standing up and walking over to look at the shot .

In all seriousness, set this up one time and shoot it. It's a neat trick shot. Rack the 15 balls and then remove the headball and another to use. It's a sweet shot. You'll like it, I promise.

P.S. It's in Byrnes' "Treasury of Trick Shots in Pool and Billiards". He calls it "Mosconi's Hustler Shot".

Dennis

Dennis, if a guy shot that on me and did not alert me to what he was doing, as I would him, knowing it was something that would look like a foul but isn't, yeah, I would call a foul on him --or YOU even--as a matter of principle.

Weenie Beenie has his stick lined up on the left side of the corner pocket collar for goodness sakes. He can't do anything but flick across the top of the cb to not foul, which means he could not possibly get the power into the shot he did.

If I walked over while he was stroking and saw the same thing, or stopped him in mid-stroke as I realized what he was doing, how could he not say I was sharking and have a case? The exercise here was intended to be about when and how to call a close foul. I think it is something just about everybody has struggled with at one time or another. Probably nobody has an answer except to figure it out as they go according to who they are playing.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

The exercise here was intended to be about when and how to call a close foul. I think it is something just about everybody has struggled with at one time or another. Probably nobody has an answer except to figure it out as they go according to who they are playing.

Skin

So that's what the exercise here was . A foul is not a foul all depending on who I'm playing. There are no close fouls either. It's either a foul or it's not. Who I'm playing does not enter into it. I never had much easy action where I could comfortably let certain shots go, I was almost always playing tough games and so learned to call everything as it was. I would not tolerate a player calling fouls on me unless he was in position to see the shot and had the knowledge of the ball reactions to know where they would go on a bad hit.

To answer your original question: No I would not call a foul on my opponent for that shot since I was not close enough to see it with certainty. My responsibility is to be close enough to witness the hit, to hell with anybody thinking I'm sharking them.

Cowboy "needs the exercise" Dennis

 

[Skin]

So that's what the exercise here was . A foul is not a foul all depending on who I'm playing. There are no close fouls either. It's either a foul or it's not. Who I'm playing does not enter into it. I never had much easy action where I could comfortably let certain shots go, I was almost always playing tough games and so learned to call everything as it was. I would not tolerate a player calling fouls on me unless he was in position to see the shot and had the knowledge of the ball reactions to know where they would go on a bad hit.

To answer your original question: No I would not call a foul on my opponent for that shot since I was not close enough to see it with certainty. My responsibility is to be close enough to witness the hit, to hell with anybody thinking I'm sharking them.

Cowboy "needs the exercise" Dennis

That's a damn good answer to it, Dennis, and is why I asked how would you resolve it if the opponent called a foul on that particular shot by WB.

Even if the opponent set up to see it clearly, if you thought you didn't foul and he did, then...it is a good idea to get an impartial 3rd party to watch if you can, which is why the guy shooting ought to do the courtesy of telling what he is doing in that situation or else risk getting a no-pay on the game.

btw, you are the only person around here who responds to my posts anymore. That's why I delete a lot now, figuring I am being irrelevant.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

btw, you are the only person around here who responds to my posts anymore. That's why I delete a lot now, figuring I am being irrelevant.

Skin

I don't know what the hell ill elephants have to do with anything but, O.K., I guess .

This game is played mostly in the head, once you can rock a cuestick back and forth in your hand. Keep working on the head, it's what most players are weak at or don't know about.

P.S. How's Deadwood going?

 

[lll]

btw, you are the only person around here who responds to my posts anymore. That's why I delete a lot now, figuring I am being irrelevant.

Skin

skin id answer more of your posts but your questions are of such a level that i defer to the cognescenti

 

[Skin]

I don't know what the hell ill elephants have to do with anything but, O.K., I guess .

This game is played mostly in the head, once you can rock a cuestick back and forth in your hand. Keep working on the head, it's what most players are weak at or don't know about.

P.S. How's Deadwood going?

I haven't been able to get going again on Deadwood since school got out. It is too pornographic to risk the wife and kids seeing, which leaves only very late at night to watch it. Since I get up at 5:00 am, well you do the math.

Skin

 

[Skin]

skin id answer more of your posts but your questions are of such a level that i defer to the cognescenti

Hey, Larry! I just saw your post. Now that my post has been noticed by TWO people who responded I have a sudden feeling that my being is more dense and gravitational in an appartiional world.

Say, that is not an example of what you are saying about my posts, is it? LOL

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I haven't been able to get going again on Deadwood since school got out. It is too pornographic to risk the wife and kids seeing, which leaves only very late at night to watch it. Since I get up at 5:00 am, well you do the math.

Skin

Well maybe you'd like to watch this version of it .

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpjoEK_nlSk[/ame]

 

[androd]

..it is a good idea to get an impartial 3rd party to watch if you can, which is why the guy shooting ought to do the courtesy of telling what he is doing in that situation or else risk getting a no-pay on the game.


Skin

I've always had a problem finding sweaters that know a foul when they see'um
Rod.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Well maybe you'd like to watch this version of it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpjoEK_nlSk

No, I think you'll wait for the real thing .

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsPYJIat0lo&feature=related[/ame]

Or maybe the lighter side does it for you? I couldn't resist. I love Deadwood.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B72NgT3PgpA&feature=related[/ame]

 

[lll]

I have a sudden feeling that my being is more dense and gravitational in an appartiional world.

Skin

did you follow a rabbit down a hole??

 

[Skin]

did you follow a rabbit down a hole??

As far as I remember it, Larry, the rabbit chased ME down the hole. The last time I looked it was still behind me...and catching up. LOL

Skin