What player player the best one pocket?

[vapros]

Freddy, you have explained why you don't like kick-banking the 15, but not why you don't like knocking it in the pocket and rolling on the 14. Have you painted yourself into a corner? And if you pass up the 15 now, why does the question become how and when to deal with it later? Why would the opportunity return at all? As your opponent, I might well knock it in myself, after you roll on the 14, and slide the cb along the long rail to the other short rail. Spot up the 15.

I keep looking for your guru, AB, to speak up and support your shot, but it doesn't look like he's going to. What's all this about watching for your next post? Why not now?

 

[SJDinPHX]

fred you did not answer why you wouldnt make the 15 in the pocket its close to so it gets spotted and the q ends up on the shot rail near the 14.so i ask why wouldnt you make the 15 as described and originally suggested?

WHAT lll SAID ????

I'm off to commentate a little on the DCT finale...ITs 10 ball, which I obviously know more about than one pocket.

Scott and Mitch are still alive..final's around 5 PST..give a peek...great stream and audio !

http://desertclassictour.com/videos.html

 

[lll]

this from dennis in post #81 in the correct strategy thread
I'm fairly certain that this will be my last post on this layout, it's actually one of the easiest decisions you'll ever need to make in a game.

How else can you move a ball almost 7 feet by moving it 3 inches?

Although the original poster does not state it, I'm assuming the 15 is in the jaws or close to in the jaws negating any attempt to kick-bank it. No matter how you roll the 15 in, off the side rail or shooting straight at it, you'll leave a ball on the spot that he has to deal with.

He can't leave you a three-railer on the three ball so he has to cross the 15 with the cueball and put the cueball on or near your side of the table.

There's really no further need to look at this layout anymore. Look at page 4 and tell us what you would do from there? Most good players would move the ball on the spot. Good, that's what you want him to do.

Dennis.



ok guys gotta watch the end of the new england vs. ravens game. see y'all later. (doc and vapros did i say that right ) lll

 

[jay helfert]

Okay, the score is 2-6, the shooter 'A' being the one behind in the game, and this is the layout. The obvious shot to most is to pocket the 15. Freddy has said that he would not do that -- he would go against the grain and would instead bump the right side of the 14 ball lightly. Several of us are curious about Freddy's plan.

Here is the original layout:
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUHK3BReK2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JIXM4KQgK4LLBM2MXUe1NOSi1OYWO4PCjM3Qcxs@[/CUETABLE]


Most players would just pocket the 15, leaving this:
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUHK3BReK2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JIXM4KQgK4LLBM2MXUe1NOSi4OATV1PRUb3Qcxs4RdGr1qQigNow_it_would_be_player_B_turn&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]


Let's say Freddy bumps the 14 ball and leaves this instead. I'm curious as to how the game could develop differently from here. (And Dick, let's hold the criticism until at least after Freddy has explained what he likes about the 14 vs the 15 -- the rest of us inquiring minds want to know. You can prepare your post ahead of time , but please save it for after Freddy has wei-ed in)
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUHK3BReK2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JIXM4KQgK4LLBM2MXUe1NNES1OYWO1PSCe3Qcxs4RdWu4qLkBThis_would_be_the_approximate_layout_if_you_bumped_the_14_instead._Player_B_to_shoot.&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

I like making the fifteen ball and leaving the cue ball on the end rail. I know my opponent can now play a safe off the spotted fifteen, but sometimes people make mistakes in spots like this, especially when shooting off the end rail. I want to give him a chance to make a mistake and maybe leave me a bank where I can now get behind the other balls and get back into the game.

I know I'm not (and never have been) a top player but I had a pretty good won-loss record gambling at One Pocket so I'm not a total duck.

 

[vapros]

'Total duck', the man said!! Did you pick up on that, Dick?

 

[vapros]

I moved over to the 10 ball Desert Classic Tournament and guess what? There's SJD on the mike, doing the commentary! Somebody noted that, later in the evening, there will be models in Victoria's Secret garments doing a show for the locals. Don't know if there is any connection. Probably just a coincidence . . .

What do the models wear in the wintertime? Anybody know?

 

[fred bentivegna]

The well has too much poison

The well has too much poison

Too much poison has gone into this well. Do I have to answer what amounts to a two page dissertation in one sentence? Thinking thru all the possibilities aint always K.I.S.S. Im beginning to question ever doing anything like this again. I dont mind being challenged, that's why I did this, but taking fire and ridicule somehow dont seem like much of a reward for my efforts.

Im trying to get each part of the equation absorbed in order, but if nobody sees any value in kickbanking the 15 -- EVER -- my solution doesnt have much of a chance of being understood.

I'll try again in the morning.

Beard

Kipling...."If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs..."

Ok, I'll keep trying, think of the 15 ball as a sleeper cell.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Maybe i'm missing something here, but the balls are in a makeable position for you. Now you have to try to play with the strategy that is best suited for you to possibly end up with a shot.

A's balls are makeable if B has a death wish and leaves the CB for him in the upper right hand quarter of the table. Otherwise, none of the balls go from the foot of the table to A's pocket (banking lanes blocked), whereas 3 balls bank from a CB position at the foot of the table to B's pocket. A can cluster the balls all he wants up into the corner, but until some are moved out of there, he needs 6, while B only needs 2.

Doc

 

[lll]

Too much poison has gone into this well. Do I have to answer what amounts to a two page dissertation in one sentence? Thinking thru all the possibilities aint always K.I.S.S. Im beginning to question ever doing anything like this again. I dont mind being challenged, that's why I did this, but taking fire and ridicule somehow dont seem like much of a reward for my efforts.

Im trying to get each part of the equation absorbed in order, but if nobody sees any value in kickbanking the 15 -- EVER -- my solution doesnt have much of a chance of being understood.

I'll try again in the morning.

Beard

Kipling...."If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs..."

Ok, I'll keep trying, think of the 15 ball as a sleeper cell.

freddy start a new thread to show your point rather than wading thru this quagmire imho

 

[wincardona]

A's balls are makeable if B has a death wish and leaves the CB for him in the upper right hand quarter of the table. Otherwise, none of the balls go from the foot of the table to A's pocket (banking lanes blocked), whereas 3 balls bank from a CB position at the foot of the table to B's pocket. A can cluster the balls all he wants up into the corner, but until some are moved out of there, he needs 6, while B only needs 2.

Doc

I understand the situation, A has to hope to make a two railer or some other low % shot to get behind the balls, but that's what A should be playing for. A got behind 6 to 2 and it's not going to be easy for him to win facing this kind of deficit, but the balls are in position if he is able to make a circus shot of some kind. If he never gets that opportunity, or if the balls are rearranged, then he will try to win with another strategy.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

They're dying on the vine

Doc

Doc......That was a VERY nice, and lyrical turn of phrase you came up with in your post today - poetic props to you!...I will appropriate and use it at some future time......

And lets not forget the famous Bobby Frost poem, as it does apply here......


Whose balls these are I think I know.
His hole is in the corner though;
He will not see me moving here
To make his woods fill up with snow.

Robert Frost, Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
US poet (1874 - 1963)


- Sir Ghost

PS, I'm not sure, but I think it was Bobby Frost who first coined the name "snow" to refer to the cueball.....

 

[wincardona]

The plan

The plan

"I have a critique of the situation, hashed over so far incorrectly, on the Correct Strategy thread. I have been saving it. When I go into the theory of it, some will begin to understand some of the deeper underlying concepts of 1 pockee that go unobserved. "Thats a promise I made earlier and I am going to fulfill it now:
I want to discuss a valuable concept often overlooked. This particular layout isnt a perfect example of what I wanted to go over, but its close enough. The key ball is the 15. The problem is what to do with it, and when. Rather than just immediately give up what I know should be done, and why, I would rather get a little feedback first. I would like to avoid either blatant knocks, which I dont think would happen in this case, but I also dont want to hear after the solution, "so and so has always done that," and "Of course, who dont know that."
What I'm talking about is what Artie has been saying all along, about knowing why you are doing something, and what is your plan? Can anyone describe a plan here? Lets assume the score is about even.

Beard

[CUETABLE]Http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSh1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSh1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs4kDAI1kboI1kRMe@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NNEX1OYnR1PQvd3Qcxs@[/CUETABLE]

Of course it would be better to have a plan, instead of shooting the first shot that comes to mind.

If I were behind 6 to 2 or if the game was tied at 4 to 4 my plan would be the same in this situation. The balls favor A who is at the table, so A should be thinking how to get behind the balls that are open on his side of the table. I would be thinking of using the 14 ball to do this or if I pocketed the 15 ball I would then have not only another ball to achieve my goal, but a ball that may lead me to the 14 ball to get behind the balls on my side. So by pocketing the 15 ball I increase my chances of successfully completing my goal.

Does that sound like a good plan? If not can someone offer a better one?

 

[SJDinPHX]

Of course it would be better to have a plan, instead of shooting the first shot that comes to mind.

If I were behind 6 to 2 or if the game was tied at 4 to 4 my plan would be the same in this situation. The balls favor A who is at the table, so A should be thinking how to get behind the balls that are open on his side of the table. I would be thinking of using the 14 ball to do this or if I pocketed the 15 ball I would then have not only another ball to achieve my goal, but a ball that may lead me to the 14 ball to get behind the balls on my side. So by pocketing the 15 ball I increase my chances of successfully completing my goal.

Does that sound like a good plan? If not can someone offer a better one?

Point well made Billy...and readily excepted by all but the most hard-headednesslyish types among us..

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

hard-headednesslyish eek:

THE WHAT???????????