Complex Strategy

G

Guda

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Anybody know of any books, dvds, videos, ect. that deal with strategy in a more complex kind of way? I'm looking for more than just simple one liners regarding strategy.
I mean after you learn the way to move a ball near your pocket or make that ball from basically anywhere on the table how do you really start to pull all that knowledge together into a complex strategy? Anybody got any ideas?
 
NH Steve

NH Steve

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Guda said:
Anybody know of any books, dvds, videos, ect. that deal with strategy in a more complex kind of way? I'm looking for more than just simple one liners regarding strategy.
I mean after you learn the way to move a ball near your pocket or make that ball from basically anywhere on the table how do you really start to pull all that knowledge together into a complex strategy? Anybody got any ideas?
Click to expand...
Eddie Robin's two books, hands down:
Shots, Moves and Strategies
Winning One Pocket

Grady's tapes have pretty in depth stuff also.
 
G

Guda

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It doesn't really help if you can't get a copy of the books without selling a kidney.
 
B

BackPocket9Ball

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The Eddie Robin books are great, and I have learned from them, but I believe the absolute best way to learn strategy -- besides lessons or just plain old "putting the time in" -- are Accu-Stats videos. Especially the ones with good commentary (IMHO the best include Grady Mathews, Billy Incardona, Bill Staton, Johnny Ervolino, and of course Freddy Bentivegna). I think commentary is more important than who the players are because the commentators explain all the options available for each shot and what the repercussions are.

Some matches which are really good strategic matches include:

Efren Reyes def. Cliff Joyner at 1998 Legends
Shannon Daulton def. Efren Reyes at 1998 Legends
Shannon Daulton def. Nick Varner at 1998 Legends
Pete Fusco def. Nick Varner at 1994 Roanoke
Strawberry Brooks def. Cliff Joyner at 1994 Roanoke
Buddy Hall def. Jeremy Jones at 1998 World
Cliff Joyner def. Jack Cooney at 1998 World
 
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jnav447

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Orlando, Fl
Agree with NH Steve and BackPocket, but I lean toward the AccuStats videos since most of us seem to learn easier by watching rather than reading (and the Robin books are REAL pricey and hard to find). I found I picked up stuff from the tapes that was in my subconscious, popped out during a game and I would think "where did that come from?", and then realize it was something I'd seen on a tape a month before. Pocket's list is excellent; I would add Daulton vs Hall 1998 Legends of 1P Finals 1V. These two came into the finals pretty much dead even (Buddy was KOH actually), and Shannon just destroyed Buddy with sheer game management. He didn't really outshoot Buddy, or outbank him, outbreak him, but consistently made that one key move that turned the game around (he usually got a ball or 2 ahead and forced Buddy to help him move balls uptable). Best example of how important game management is I've seen; I think this is a real underrated aspect of 1P that gets shorted because it's not as glamorous as running balls, great break, great return, etc. Learn game management from Grady's stuff - he's the mastah.
 
J

jazznpool

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Aside from what has already been mentioned, play as much as you can and play with better players when you can afford to (tournaments are a low cost way to do this). Also sweat matches between good players and try to anticipate shots and moves. One pocket is a game rich with strategy and all aspects of shooting. It takes time and patience to develop even basic proficiency.

Martin


Guda said:
Anybody know of any books, dvds, videos, ect. that deal with strategy in a more complex kind of way? I'm looking for more than just simple one liners regarding strategy.
I mean after you learn the way to move a ball near your pocket or make that ball from basically anywhere on the table how do you really start to pull all that knowledge together into a complex strategy? Anybody got any ideas?
Click to expand...
 
fred bentivegna

fred bentivegna

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Accu-Stat video

Accu-Stat video

The match between Jim Rempe and Jimmy Fusco at the Philadelphia legends tournament is a must see for someone trying to learn 1p. It explores the inner game in great depth. You will be able to follow Fusco's, 2 and 3 shots ahead stategy, and see just what it really takes to play our game. Needless to say, I am the announcer for the match. It is probably the biggest seller Accu-stats ever had.

the Beard
Bank on, brother! Old school pool.
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

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Well, Freddy, I'd buy the tape, upon your recommendation, but it doesn't seem to be available on the Accu-Stats web site any more.

Lou Figueroa



fred bentivegna said:
The match between Jim Rempe and Jimmy Fusco at the Philadelphia legends tournament is a must see for someone trying to learn 1p. It explores the inner game in great depth. You will be able to follow Fusco's, 2 and 3 shots ahead stategy, and see just what it really takes to play our game. Needless to say, I am the announcer for the match. It is probably the biggest seller Accu-stats ever had.

the Beard
Bank on, brother! Old school pool.
Click to expand...
 
CaptainHook

CaptainHook

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Do you plas Chess ? 1P is like Chess to me. When I was a kid I played Chess
all the time, and was teased by my freinds at school for being a member of the Chess Club and the USCF. Find a local Chess Club and start playing, it will get you thinking way ahead the way you need to process 1P.

Please fill out your profile, we do not know what city you are in. :D
 
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BUD GREEN

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That tape is definately a must for those who like one player torture another. Two tapes worth of pinching,squeezing, grinding out the wins old school style. Rempe apparently has no idea how to move in one pocket, and Fusco takes no chances.

Freddie torches Rempe for doing nothing aggressive the whole match. Fusco squeezes so hard it even makes a Chicago one-holer laugh the whole time. Rempe actually won a major one pocket event in 1971 but even he said he won by taking the wrong shots,but making them. He'd beaten Fusco playing one pocket somehow before, so Fusco absolutely gave him nothing to shoot at.

Not the most dynamic match, but an excellent one for learning. Fusco does commentary on a 5-4 match between him and Nick Varner that is also an excellent tape from about the same time (1991?).
 
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BackPocket9Ball

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I definitely like the old accu-stats matches from the early 90s, but they're hard to get hold of.

A couple others that are good are

Jersey Red def. Bob Osbourne
Allen Hopkins def Steve Cook (1991 Legends finals)
Johnny Ervolino def. Mike Sigel

A couple of tapes that are very entertaining but not terribly strategic are

Lotsapoppa def. Jimmy Mataya
Shannon Daulton def. Steve Mizerak (1992 Legends finals)
 
fred bentivegna

fred bentivegna

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Call Pat Fleming

Call Pat Fleming

lfigueroa said:
Well, Freddy, I'd buy the tape, upon your recommendation, but it doesn't seem to be available on the Accu-Stats web site any more.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I think if you call Pat Fleming and bug him, you can get him to re-release the tape. There are a few other people interested also.
the Beard
 
B

blackeee

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freddy match

freddy match

MisterBanker said:
Accu-Stats has released the matches from this tournament on DVD!

http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1058978144&CAT=1206383411&SUBCAT=1214508343&BACK=A0008A1B01058978144B1C01206383411C1

Hey Freddy, did they ever film you playing One-Pocket?
Click to expand...

I've got a match between Freddy and Harry "the hat" Burton. Sorry Freddy,but you weren't in good stroke in that match. Entertaining match and some real funny lines in the commentary.
 
fred bentivegna

fred bentivegna

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Burn it

Burn it

blackeee said:
I've got a match between Freddy and Harry "the hat" Burton. Sorry Freddy,but you weren't in good stroke in that match. Entertaining match and some real funny lines in the commentary.
Click to expand...


That was Eddie the hat Burton. Those were some of the worst tables I ever played on. I have tried to gather up and burn all the copies of that match that was out there, but apparently a few got away.

the Beard
 
SJDinPHX

SJDinPHX

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You've got your stuff together !

You've got your stuff together !

jnav447 said:
Agree with NH Steve and BackPocket, but I lean toward the AccuStats videos since most of us seem to learn easier by watching rather than reading (and the Robin books are REAL pricey and hard to find). I found I picked up stuff from the tapes that was in my subconscious, popped out during a game and I would think "where did that come from?", and then realize it was something I'd seen on a tape a month before. Pocket's list is excellent; I would add Daulton vs Hall 1998 Legends of 1P Finals 1V. These two came into the finals pretty much dead even (Buddy was KOH actually), and Shannon just destroyed Buddy with sheer game management. He didn't really outshoot Buddy, or outbank him, outbreak him, but consistently made that one key move that turned the game around (he usually got a ball or 2 ahead and forced Buddy to help him move balls uptable). Best example of how important game management is I've seen; I think this is a real underrated aspect of 1P that gets shorted because it's not as glamorous as running balls, great break, great return, etc. Learn game management from Grady's stuff - he's the mastah.
Click to expand...

Good post JNAV, you are right on target. Buddy Is several years younger than me, but I never once felt that I could not give him a ball, and still win.
In fact I think he concurs in his book (Rags to Rifleman)
Squeeze players like Fusco, would not have had a chance against me or RA in our prime. That is not bragging, its just a fact. Shannon plays a similar style as we did, however the little s**t is too much younger. Pisses me off !

Dick
 
One Pocket Ghost

One Pocket Ghost

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Dick Mc Morran said:
Squeeze players like Fusco, would not have had a chance against me or RA in our prime. That is not bragging, its just a fact.

Dick
Click to expand...


Hey Dick, howsabout Chicago squeeeze player Artie B.....did he have any chance against you guys ?......:eek:

Careful with your answer now, or you'll have Freddy swooping down on you......:D
 
gulfportdoc

gulfportdoc

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Dick Mc Morran said:
Good post JNAV, you are right on target. Buddy Is several years younger than me, but I never once felt that I could not give him a ball, and still win.
In fact I think he concurs in his book (Rags to Rifleman).
Click to expand...
From Buddy Hall: From Rags To Rifleman, Then What? by W.W.Woody, p. 96:

"...Mike [Dick's backer] said that Dick could spot Buddy a ball and play him 8 to 7. Buddy agreed to play a 4 ahead set that way for $200. Dick knew all the moves, and it didn't take long for him to out-maneuver Buddy and win the set. Buddy could plainly see that he couldn't win at that game..."
 
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