John Brumback
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He probably went for the do or die shot on the 9ball cross side.John B.
Truman Hogue vs. "Piggy Bank" Rogers 2001 D.C.C.
- Thread starter Cowboy Dennis
- Start date
He probably went for the do or die shot on the 9ball cross side.John B.
hitnandpikn
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- 37
Fred, you're making this out for people to believe that the shooter is confronted with an impasse.:sorry When a player is confronted with a situation where there is nothing within reason to do, then taking a scratch would be a consideration. But to even consider taking a scratch from this position is imo, a form of dogging it. There are four options that I can see that are much better than taking a scratch. Two of the options have already been brought up, but there's two other options that are good options as well..
The best option would be the most popular one, and that is to pocket the 7 ball, either of two ways, straight in, or rail first. The second option would be the one you suggested by going rail first, thinly striking the 7 ball and then going three rails back up table. The third option would be (imo not as good as the other two) to cut the spotted ball into the pocket (to the shooters left) and go two cushions up table with the cue ball. If this option is chosen you must be conscious of the possible scratch, two cushions to the top pocket.Understanding this, you must hit this shot with a softer speed to fall short of the corner pocket. The fourth option is imo a good option, i'll explain.
Taking a scratch is a bad decision, but not as bad as a decision as banking the 9 ball. Your make percentage of banking the 9 ball and pocketing it is very slim, especially with the speed you need to hit it with shooting off the end rail.
You my old friend are a very stubborn one, when the whole room sides against an opinion, no matter who's opinion, I think it's time to turn it loose.:sorry
Dr. Bill
If the 7ball off the end rail is no daisy,agreed, the 6ball slow rolled ain't much better. If it hangs the 9ball sems available and if they don't line up several shots open. I thought thining the spot ball and going two rails up table by the chalk. Trying to tie up the two balls by corner pocket and the pocket as well for the cross side six.
wincardona
Verified Member
As a rule of thumb.
As a rule of thumb.
When there are few balls left on the table, as there are in this situation, and all the balls are positioned either around the foot end or the head end of the table, imo depending on what side of the foot or head end the balls are positioned would determine to me where the cue ball should be positioned to create the toughest position for your opponent to deal with.
Example: in this situation Truman will come off the two spotted balls and go up table with the cue ball. After his shot is executed I suspect that all the balls will be positioned on the right side of the table, and the cue ball will be positioned up table near the top rail. (favoring the left side near the rail) That's the opposite side that the object balls are positioned. From this position the entire left side of the table is ball free. There are no balls for Piggy to be concerned with if he chooses to play off a ball and return up table with his safety. Plus he may have the option to cross one of the object balls for a free cross corner shot, from that position. Understanding this possibility, Truman, (if I were he) should try to end up near the center diamond on the rail with the cue ball. There is a way he can do this. Instead of hitting the side of the spotted balls, he should hit the bottom ball full and follow through the bottom ball and try to end up near the top center diamond. From this position Piggy will have a much tougher situation to deal with.
Shooting this shot in the fashion I described the top ball will go up table and hit the top rail and have enough speed to go back down table near the foot end. Most importantly the cue ball should end up near the top center diamond.
If I was smart enough to use green shot it would be better for everyone, and easier to understand.:sorry
Dr. Bill
As a rule of thumb.
When there are few balls left on the table, as there are in this situation, and all the balls are positioned either around the foot end or the head end of the table, imo depending on what side of the foot or head end the balls are positioned would determine to me where the cue ball should be positioned to create the toughest position for your opponent to deal with.
Example: in this situation Truman will come off the two spotted balls and go up table with the cue ball. After his shot is executed I suspect that all the balls will be positioned on the right side of the table, and the cue ball will be positioned up table near the top rail. (favoring the left side near the rail) That's the opposite side that the object balls are positioned. From this position the entire left side of the table is ball free. There are no balls for Piggy to be concerned with if he chooses to play off a ball and return up table with his safety. Plus he may have the option to cross one of the object balls for a free cross corner shot, from that position.
Understanding this possibility, Truman, (if I were he) should try to end up near the center diamond on the rail with the cue ball. There is a way he can do this. Instead of hitting the side of the spotted balls, he should hit the bottom ball full and follow through the bottom ball and try to end up near the top center diamond. From this position Piggy will have a much tougher situation to deal with. Shooting this shot in the fashion I described the top ball will go up table and hit the top rail and have enough speed to go back down table near the foot end. Most importantly the cue ball should end up near the top center diamond.
If I was smart enough to use green shot it would be better for everyone, and easier to understand.:sorry
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
I tried to explain the advantages of shooting the 6 ball as best as I could. I also tried to explain the good and bad things that could happen for all the options that are available. I'll go back and highlight in red the important points that should be considered.
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
Fred, you're making this out for people to believe that the shooter is confronted with an impasse. When a player is confronted with a situation where there is nothing within reason to do, then taking a scratch would be a consideration. But to even consider taking a scratch from this position is imo, a form of dogging it. There are four options that I can see that are much better than taking a scratch. Two of the options have already been brought up, but there's two other options that are good options as well..
The best option would be the most popular one, and that is to pocket the 7 ball, either of two ways, straight in, or rail first. The second option would be the one you suggested by going rail first, thinly striking the 7 ball and then going three rails back up table. This option takes a very accurate hit off the 7 ball. If hit thinly you're going to like the results. The third option would be (imo not as good as the other two) to cut the spotted ball into the pocket (to the shooters left) and go two cushions up table with the cue ball. If this option is chosen you must be conscious of the possible scratch, two cushions to the top pocket. Understanding this, you must hit this shot with a softer speed to fall short of the corner pocket. The fourth option is imo a good option, i'll explain. The 6 ball is laying on the angle to shoot it straight in the corner pocket...softly...by slightly favoring the outside of the pocket, hitting the shot in this fashion will reduce the sell out factor. The cue ball will float to the side rail and end up in a safe position. And if you happen to pocket the 6 ball it will be spotted behind the 9 ball with absolutely zero banks available for the shooter.
Taking a scratch is a bad decision, but not as bad as a decision as banking the 9 ball. Your make percentage of banking the 9 ball and pocketing it is very slim, especially with the speed you need to hit it with shooting off the end rail.
You my old friend are a very stubborn one, when the whole room sides against an opinion, no matter who's opinion, I think it's time to turn it loose.
Dr. Bill
The best option would be the most popular one, and that is to pocket the 7 ball, either of two ways, straight in, or rail first. The second option would be the one you suggested by going rail first, thinly striking the 7 ball and then going three rails back up table. This option takes a very accurate hit off the 7 ball. If hit thinly you're going to like the results. The third option would be (imo not as good as the other two) to cut the spotted ball into the pocket (to the shooters left) and go two cushions up table with the cue ball. If this option is chosen you must be conscious of the possible scratch, two cushions to the top pocket. Understanding this, you must hit this shot with a softer speed to fall short of the corner pocket. The fourth option is imo a good option, i'll explain. The 6 ball is laying on the angle to shoot it straight in the corner pocket...softly...by slightly favoring the outside of the pocket, hitting the shot in this fashion will reduce the sell out factor. The cue ball will float to the side rail and end up in a safe position. And if you happen to pocket the 6 ball it will be spotted behind the 9 ball with absolutely zero banks available for the shooter.
Taking a scratch is a bad decision, but not as bad as a decision as banking the 9 ball. Your make percentage of banking the 9 ball and pocketing it is very slim, especially with the speed you need to hit it with shooting off the end rail.
You my old friend are a very stubborn one, when the whole room sides against an opinion, no matter who's opinion, I think it's time to turn it loose.
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
is that an option?
is that an option?
John, I didn't even consider that as an option. Am I that much of a coward, or is that not an option?
What would you do?
Billy I.
is that an option?
John, I didn't even consider that as an option. Am I that much of a coward, or is that not an option?
What would you do?
Billy I.
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
The difference
The difference
The big difference between the 6 and the 7, is that the 6 is 4 1/2 feet closer to the cue ball. That is why I would choose it. It is also a full hit on the 6. Your shot is a paper thin exact hit on a ball that is even further away.
Beard
The difference
The big difference between the 6 and the 7, is that the 6 is 4 1/2 feet closer to the cue ball. That is why I would choose it. It is also a full hit on the 6. Your shot is a paper thin exact hit on a ball that is even further away.
Beard
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Yeah, you too
Yeah, you too
I believe Truman, needing them all, and they are all bankable if he makes the 9 went for the shot --- just like I would have done -- and just like you would have done, John. Please tell the truth on this one, John.
Beard
Yeah, you too
I believe Truman, needing them all, and they are all bankable if he makes the 9 went for the shot --- just like I would have done -- and just like you would have done, John.
Please tell the truth on this one, John.Beard
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
Oh no, not that
. Do you think it would be more understandable in red? They either get it or they don't get it.Damn, I'm too late:frus:sorry
RBL
wincardona
Verified Member
I believe Truman, needing them all, and they are all bankable if he makes the 9 went for the shot --- just like I would have done -- and just like you would have done, John.
Beard
Truman is one of the most aggressive players out there, but from the position he's in going for the bank is really gambling.
There's the chance even if hit well that a collision will occur near the side pocket. Plus he has to duck the scratch straight back with whitey.:sorry That's not my choice. All balls will still be in play if he comes off the spotted balls and puts pressure on Piggy from the top cushion. I think it's a high risk, low percentage shot.Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
Yes I do, it's like a personal lesson. Plus it's half as much to consume. Less is more, or something like that.Oh no, not that
Damn, I'm too late:frus:sorry
RBL
Dr. Bill
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
You are right on two counts
You are right on two counts
There is definitely a chance of a kiss with the cue ball returning from the head rail and the scratch is humanly possible, but has a much less chance of occurring unless you inadvertently put some english on the cue ball.
Needing 'em all, I'm rolling anyway, and if I was playing you and you were in my spot, I would be rooting for you to play safe and give me a chance to take a ball out of play.
BEard
You are right on two counts
Truman is one of the most aggressive players out there, but from the position he's in going for the bank is really gambling.
Dr. Bill
There is definitely a chance of a kiss with the cue ball returning from the head rail and the scratch is humanly possible, but has a much less chance of occurring unless you inadvertently put some english on the cue ball.
Needing 'em all, I'm rolling anyway, and if I was playing you and you were in my spot, I would be rooting for you to play safe and give me a chance to take a ball out of play.
BEard
wincardona
Verified Member
No one likes losing, but if i'm goin down it's not going to be that way. I'll take my chances that my opponent will play conservatively and give me a better situation to deal with. There's still enough time left on the clock, the way I see it, no need to throw a Hail Mary.:sorry
Shots like the one you like imo is giving your opponent something he should earn. I like a player that doesn't give anything away, their much tougher to beat. Plus when your opponent senses that you're going to play recklessly, he will feed off of that.
Dr. Bill
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
I believe Truman, needing them all, and they are all bankable if he makes the 9 went for the shot --- just like I would have done -- and just like you would have done, John.
Beard
After Brownback responds I will show what Truman did and then kill this f@@king thread
.RBL
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
Now there's the kind of advice I like to see. Much like a MLB batter making the pitcher earn every strike & every out.
Dennis
wincardona
Verified Member
You blew it this time, Truman went for the flyer and sold out. Probably scratching.:lolAfter Brownback responds I will show what Truman did and then kill this f@@king thread
RBL
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
I think John went fishing.After Brownback responds I will show what Truman did and then kill this f@@king thread
RBL
Dr. Bill
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
I think John went fishing.
Dr. Bill
Either way, after Broombach gets back and responds I will show what Truman shot.
RBL
John Brumback
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Well thanks guys.I didn't know I would ever be missed.:lol.Ok,no I'm not shooting the 9ball cross side.I would jack up and try to ease the cball back to the bottom rail with low left.Off the 8ball that is.Carry on good people.John B.
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
Are you kidding? After Freddy, me & Billy I. yours is the most sought-after opinion on Bank Pool layouts
.I'm too tired now, I'll show it tomorrow.
RBL