Inadvertent validation from Eddie Kelly via Billy I.

Let me explain the title of this thread...

In the "Champagne Ed Kelly" thread, in discussing the Flamingo Hilton One Pocket Tournament, in post #12, Billy related/described the creative and beautiful shot (Billy's words) that Eddie shot in the hill-hill game - a ball-moving-2 rails out of the corner-power shot, that turned the game around, and won the match for Eddie against Cornbread...and after I asked him, in post #20 Billy further clarified exactly what the shot was...

...And what that "creative, beautiful shot" was...was a variation of the same shot that about a year ago I posted up as an example of a strong power shot to watch for, and have in your arsenal.....and of course after I posted it up, all of the naysayers posted up against the shot, saying it was the wrong shot, it was a crazy shot, etc - I guess Eddie and I both shoot crazy/wrong shots......the only person who spoke positive of the shot was Steve Booth.......and I'll tell you what, Scott Frost is another player who would definitely be shooting this shot if it came up for him and he saw it.

- Ghost

PS, I'd lay 100-1 that if it had been Eddie Kelly that had posted up and recommended my exact shot, rather then knocking it, you'all would have fallen all over yourselves saying "great shot Eddie! thanks for showing it".......



This is my post from a year ago, along with the wei diagram of the shot >>>

One Pocket Ghost said:

This shot is a killer - it does everything....it's safe, you send all of the balls flying to your hole-maybe making one, AND, you knock out his 6 and 11 balls....it's a pool-billiard shot....you clip off of the top of the 3 ball with maximum side-right english, spinning two rails into the 6 and 11 balls sending them towards your hole - with the cueball taking the path that I show in the diagram....

Most One Pocket players would have just settled for the simple snooker behind the 6 and 11 - but there was a monster shot to be had by thinking it through further.


- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AQne4BAOC3CKqf3DIsp3ECXR4FObR3GAUd4HDnV3IDer4JDOA4KOSi4LAkX3MDfk4NAMB3OEdS3PRSE3QcQs3UQne3UcIp4VAOC3VYeg3WKqf3WLQo3WJKN4aObR4aBdA3aLfj4fOSi3fHQs3fPYf3kRSE3kKiW4kbyn4kRMq4kPYh4kPpX4kPhT4kcVw4kNwb@[/CUETABLE]

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One Pocket Ghost said:

Let me explain the title of this thread...

In the "Champagne Ed Kelly" thread, in discussing the Flamingo Hilton One Pocket Tournament, in post #12, Billy related/described the creative and beautiful shot (Billy's words) that Eddie shot in the hill-hill game - a ball-moving-2 rails out of the corner-power shot, that turned the game around, and won the match for Eddie against Cornbread...and after I asked him, in post #20 Billy further clarified exactly what the shot was...

And what that "creative, beautiful shot" was...was a variation of the same shot that about a year ago I posted up as an example of a strong power shot to watch for, and have in your arsenal.....and of course after I posted it up, all of the naysayers posted up against the shot, saying it was the wrong shot, it was a crazy shot, etc - I guess Eddie and I both shoot crazy/wrong shots......the only person who spoke positive of the shot was Steve Booth....tell you what, Scott Frost is another player who would definitely be shooting this shot if it came up for him and he saw it.

- Ghost

PS, I'd lay 100-1 that if it had been Eddie Kelly that had posted up and recommended my exact shot, you'all would have fallen over yourselves saying "great shot Eddie! thanks for showing it"......
- Ghost

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You're beginning to sound as paranoid as Freddy.
Rod.
PS that doesn't mean somebody aint out to ignore you.

Great shot.

Great shot.

androd said:

You're beginning to sound as paranoid as Freddy.

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Even paranoid people have things to be afraid of.

Beard

I know that I certainly didnt knock that shot. No downside.
WEI tables working again? Id like to show a onepocket shot that I used against Eddie Kelly. He recognized what I was going to do and he smirked, "Yeah, look at this." Kelly had a fabulous smirk.

androd said:

You're beginning to sound as paranoid as Freddy.
Rod.
PS that doesn't mean somebody aint out to ignore you.

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Nah Rod, I don't got the paranoia....my problem, is I got this obsession with reality - I like to always have it included in my interactions with others - but so many people, just don't...

- Ghosty<-------Likes Rod for some strange reason (in a strictly hetero way of course)...

One Pocket Ghost said:

Nah Rod, I don't got the paranoia....my problem, is I got this obsession with reality - I like to always have it included in my interactions with others - but so many people, just don't...

- Ghosty<-------Likes Rod for some strange reason (in a strictly hetero way of course)...

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Damn, struck out again !
Rod.

Ghost, I'm beginning to wonder if you and Fred came from the same mother.

Doc

gulfportdoc said:

Ghost, I'm beginning to wonder if you and Fred came from the same mother.

Doc

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I only share Freddy's good traits....

- Ghost

Gotta correct myself....I went back and looked at the several pages of the original thread of this shot of mine...and saw that there was one other poster other than Steve Booth, who instead of knocking the shot, said "good shot Ghost"...and you know who that was, of all people, giving out a compliment believe it or not?...

...It was my main man, the old curmudgeon, Papie!.....gotta love the paper trail and the archives...

- Ghost

Ghost, heres my 2 cents
you were not a road player and you did not bet high
therefore how could you know anything or play with the big boys
thats like saying looking at bruce lee "gee he's scawny and a chink i'll go punch him out"
BAD IDEA
how high you will bet and doesnt relate to what you know. jmho
yes you can double or quadruple the bet to get someone out of their "comfort zone" but even if that gets them to dog it it doesnt erase what they kinow.jmho
of course the champions/legends are those that could do it at nosebleed stakes and when it all wqas on the line .
thats the difference between the haqll of famers and the rest of us.

but knowing the right shot many of us lesser known players could be right
just some food for thoght for discussion

lll said:

Ghost, heres my 2 cents
you were not a road player and you did not bet high
therefore how could you know anything or play with the big boys
thats like saying looking at bruce lee "gee he's scawny and a chink i'll go punch him out"
BAD IDEA
how high you will bet and doesnt relate to what you know. jmho
yes you can double or quadruple the bet to get someone out of their "comfort zone" but even if that gets them to dog it it doesnt erase what they kinow.jmho
of course the champions/legends are those that could do it at nosebleed stakes and when it all wqas on the line .
thats the difference between the haqll of famers and the rest of us.

but knowing the right shot many of us lesser known players could be right
just some food for thoght for discussion

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Larry,

What does this post mean? Too many extra words for me to understand it. Are you saying that a person who knows the game for cheap still knows the game for expensive? Are you saying that if the bet goes up and he dogs it, then he still knows what he knew for cheap?

In my simple-minded opinion if a player thinks he knows the shots for cheap then he shouldn't have any problem ever raising the bet and shooting the very same shots. Many players change their shot selection when the bet goes up. Some play tighter & scared and some loosen up & play better. The money does change what the players know: some know a hell of a lot for cheap, I've got a long list of players that I've never beaten for $10 and $20 per game but these same players don't know anything for $100 a game. Their silky smooth strokes and perfect "everything" turns to mush when the bet goes up.

Knowing the right shot "intellectually" and knowing the right shot "actually", when you are betting serious cash on it, are two entirely different things. Until a person is standing at the table, playing a tough game against a player that can win, and betting serious cash, he don't know nothing. The shot for $25 a game might not be the shot for $200 a game, hell, he may not even know what to do for $200 a game. That's just my honest opinion. That's the furnace that good players are forged in.

No offense intended here to any cheaper players, my bets are cheap to many on this site.

Dennis

One Pocket Ghost said:

Gotta correct myself....I went back and looked at the several pages of the original thread of this shot of mine...and saw that there was one other poster other than Steve Booth, who instead of knocking the shot, said "good shot Ghost"...and you know who that was, of all people, giving out a compliment believe it or not?...

...It was my main man, the old curmudgeon, Papie!.....gotta love the paper trail and the archives...

- Ghost

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Well then why don't you quote the post already and let us see what we all wrote? I can't stand the suspense .

Cowboy Dennis said:

Larry,

What does this post mean? Too many extra words for me to understand it. Are you saying that a person who knows the game for cheap still knows the game for expensive? Are you saying that if the bet goes up and he dogs it, then he still knows what he knew for cheap?

In my simple-minded opinion if a player thinks he knows the shots for cheap then he shouldn't have any problem ever raising the bet and shooting the very same shots. Many players change their shot selection when the bet goes up. Some play tighter & scared and some loosen up & play better. The money does change what the players know: some know a hell of a lot for cheap, I've got a long list of players that I've never beaten for $10 and $20 per game but these same players don't know anything for $100 a game. Their silky smooth strokes and perfect "everything" turns to mush when the bet goes up.

Knowing the right shot "intellectually" and knowing the right shot "actually", when you are betting serious cash on it, are two entirely different things. Until a person is standing at the table, playing a tough game against a player that can win, and betting serious cash, he don't know nothing. The shot for $25 a game might not be the shot for $200 a game, hell, he may not even know what to do for $200 a game. That's just my honest opinion. That's the furnace that good players are forged in.

No offense intended here to any cheaper players, my bets are cheap to many on this site.

Dennis

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Dennis, let me explain with an extreme example. this analogy is more from other sports
the greatest coaches were not necessarily the greatest players
they know what to do but couldnt do it. yet they could teach it.

the person who can play for $25 but not for $200 ( add as many zeros as you would like) is not a knowledge issue .jmho
its guts ,heart , nerve , balls ,use your own descriptor.
its what measures competitors and is the stuff that legends are made from.
its what makes a PLAYER.

the advice from someone who is battle tested you MUST respect because he needed his judgement to survive , win, overcome the obstacles.
and the test of fire proved his judgements were correct.

but someone who has spent his life in the pool room watching and learning
may still come to the same conclusion as to what to shoot even tho he would not bet a nickel on it or couldnt execute it under pressure.

to me there are 2 different issues.
we respect the PLAYERS. the ones who will gamble, the ones with heart, the ones with ice water in their veins

but i dont think all the rest who dont bet or cant or wont bet high are idiots who know nothing about pool or what could be a good shot in a certain situation. or cant teach us something jmho

there are even respected members who have occasionally agreed with my shot selection
Larry.

Yea, verily

Yea, verily

Cowboy Dennis said:

Larry,

What does this post mean? Too many extra words for me to understand it. Are you saying that a person who knows the game for cheap still knows the game for expensive? Are you saying that if the bet goes up and he dogs it, then he still knows what he knew for cheap?

In my simple-minded opinion if a player thinks he knows the shots for cheap then he shouldn't have any problem ever raising the bet and shooting the very same shots. Many players change their shot selection when the bet goes up. Some play tighter & scared and some loosen up & play better. The money does change what the players know: some know a hell of a lot for cheap, I've got a long list of players that I've never beaten for $10 and $20 per game but these same players don't know anything for $100 a game. Their silky smooth strokes and perfect "everything" turns to mush when the bet goes up.

Knowing the right shot "intellectually" and knowing the right shot "actually", when you are betting serious cash on it, are two entirely different things. Until a person is standing at the table, playing a tough game against a player that can win, and betting serious cash, he don't know nothing. The shot for $25 a game might not be the shot for $200 a game, hell, he may not even know what to do for $200 a game. That's just my honest opinion. That's the furnace that good players are forged in.

No offense intended here to any cheaper players, my bets are cheap to many on this site.

Dennis

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I agree Dennis. If you know what's right, then you know it for whatever you bet. Only when you think you know something, is what causes the trepidation when extreme pressure is applied. Doubt and uncertainty can set in. Experience in the situation is the only thing that can give you "courage of your convictions." A teenager can read all the sex books on earth but he will still proceed with uncertainty until he actually experiences sex.
I've had success betting big money (It took a while too) not because I accelerated my game to some new, highspeed level, aside from maybe playing a little more deliberately and being more careful with my percentages, but because I knew my speed wouldnt collapse. I was still going to make the shots I was supposed to make and miss the shots I was supposed to miss. I didnt really shoot any better, but fewer mistakes and better percentages stand up well for big cheese. I was still just as nervous, maybe even a little more so, but I would be comforted watching my oppo now struggling with his decisions as to what is the "right" thing to do for the big lines. Plus, "miracle shots" dont seem to go for the big stuff. Artie made a career out of shooting hanger after hanger.

Beard

That's a fabulous line Dennis, "...the furnace that good players are forged in."
Did you get that out of the "Onion?" hahaha Just joshing.

fred bentivegna said:

That's a fabulous line Dennis, "...the furnace that good players are forged in."
Did you get that out of the "Onion?" hahaha Just joshing.

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Yep, That's how they make steel, they put it in the fire.
Rod. <----burned up a few bucks in my career.

Tensile srength, and x-rayed welds...were all perfect then....

Tensile srength, and x-rayed welds...were all perfect then....

androd said:

Yep, That's how they make steel, they put it in the fire.
Rod. <----burned up a few bucks in my career.

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The only thing made of steel, in my younger days, was my "Johnson"...It stood the test many times...

It has, of late, kind of "failed" under pressure...Much like my pool game...

One Pocket Ghost said:

Gotta correct myself....I went back and looked at the several pages of the original thread of this shot of mine...and saw that there was one other poster other than Steve Booth, who instead of knocking the shot, said "good shot Ghost"...and you know who that was, of all people, giving out a compliment believe it or not?...

...It was my main man, the old curmudgeon, Papie!.....gotta love the paper trail and the archives...

- Ghost

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Anyone who knocks that particular shot, as being too "risky"...needs to go home and hide under the bed... I think that is agressive, heads up one pocket at its best.

I gotta wonder though,...did AB weigh in on it ?...He may not have shot it...It is not a "squeeze" shot. There is an outside chance of giving up a shot...

not again....

One Pocket Ghost said:

not again....

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You doorknob... If you weren't so paranoid about being hi-jacked, you would see that I addressed the topic while you were posting your whiney cat response..

SJDinPHX said:

You doorknob... If you weren't so paranoid about being hi-jacked, you would see that I addressed the topic while you were posting your whiney cat response..

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I'm not a doorknob...I'm a 'window of opportunity' (you know, as in, if somebody was to want to challenge me to play them One Pocket for example ).....

- Jasper

lll said:

but someone who has spent his life in the pool room watching and learning
may still come to the same conclusion as to what to shoot even tho he would not bet a nickel on it or couldnt execute it under pressure.



but i dont think all the rest who dont bet or cant or wont bet high are idiots who know nothing about pool or what could be a good shot in a certain situation. or cant teach us something jmho

there are even respected members who have occasionally agreed with my shot selection
Larry.

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Larry,

Now I understand what you were saying. I agree with most of your post except for these two points. A person who has spent his life in a poolroom but not gambling at pool, can't teach me anything. I need to know what he'd do in a tough game and he couldn't show me. I've known guys like that. A couple of them used to sit there and critique my game (unknown to me) and they told people that I was the luckiest player they'd ever seen. One day, a friend of mine told them that I was playing the shots intentionally that they thought were lucky. He told them to watch how the balls went towards my pocket, away from the other side, and the cueball was left safe. They had no clue as to what I was doing and they had been in poolrooms forever and knew a bit about the game. I didn't know this till years later and it was hard to believe that men I thought knowledgeable were not and they even thought I was not.

As to your second point that I quoted, the people who don't bet are not idiots, in most cases they are more intelligent than the gamblers, but they are almost totally irrelevant to the gamblers. People who hang out in poolrooms and don't gamble aren't usually looked upon too favorably by the poolplayers who bet. The players don't really care what non-players think.

I know that you gambled with N.Y. Blackie years ago so you've experienced the feeling of "if I make a mistake, I'll lose". That thought honed your game & made it better. You knew what to do under pressure, that counts for a lot in my book. That experience either made you play better or you quit playing pool, and you didn't quit playing pool .

Remember: A diamond is just a chunk of coal that could take the pressure.

P.S. Freddy, that's also an original line, I've been saying it for at least 25 years .

Dennis