S. Daulton vs. R. Martin 1998 W.O.P. #2

fred bentivegna said:

The carom is either on, or not on. If its on and you know how to make it, the positive odds are much, much more than even money.

Beard

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fred bentivegna said:

I am going to repeat too. Either the shot wasnt on to begin with, or he didnt know how to put it on.

Beard

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wincardona said:

Lets not be naive, Ray's certainly not. When you say that a carom is either on or not on, you still need to execute it. There have been many caroms that I have shot that were even money or better that I missed. And sometimes "Mr Hacker" the pockets not threatened.:frus But that doesn't always mean that the shot wasn't even money, does it?

When shooting a carom there are many variables, depending on how the carom is executed. Any one of these variables can throw the carom off, so it all comes down to how you feel about your chances of succeeding. There are no guarantees in life and also in shooting caroms.:sorry But if Ray Martin shoots a carom in situations like this one, i'm betting he makes it. Like I said there are no guarantees,

Another thing, Ray thought it was even money or better, or he wouldn't of shot it. I like his decision, but he didn't make it. But even though he didn't make it I still like his decision. Look at the results. Maybe he is smarter than you think.
Dr. Bill[/B]

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onepockethacker said:

Really BILLY? REALLY? Do you think he was planning on the cueball going OFF 3 BALLS? Actually what is more likely being realistic is the fact that he was playing SHANNON DAULTON ONE POCKET AND RAY WAS AN UNDERDOG and he decided to try a HOMERUN shot. Have you EXPERTS noticed a pattern here so far? Ray is in some bad spots when he comes to the table..hence he is getting OUTMOVED. So instead of playing a moving game he decided for the HOMERUN, whiffed but got away with it.
P.S. Hacker now knows why you guys have been friends for all these years...my god

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10 to 7 is our new game.

ChrisBanks said:

Beard mentioned earlier to use right english and follow to get maximum draw off the carom ball.

If you are caroming a ball to the left, will right english cause the object ball to draw off the caromed ball?

I know about the use of follow and draw on carom shots, but I have never heard about the effects of left and right english.

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wincardona said:

Rob, let me start by saying that I was being a little facetious when I said "Look at the results" he may be smarter than you think. But the hidden point is...even if you shoot a shot that appears to be marginal, there's still that chance if missed that you don't have to give up a shot. That point is hardly ever factored into the decision making process, even though it should be.

About your opinion on Ray being out moved, and that's probably why he shot the carom is something to think about. But I really don't believe that's why he shot the carom.:sorry

By the way now that the word is that the game between you and Wiseman was a spread...10 to 7 is our new game.

Billy I.

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fred bentivegna said:

...now you have learned something. The english doesnt exactly cause the ball to "draw" or "follow" off of the other ball, but it will still increase or decrease the carom angle, depending on the english used.

Beard

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ChrisBanks said:

True I didn't use the right terminology.

In the case of Ray's shot in the diagram, will right english on the cueball give the same effect as using follow on the cueball?

I hope that question makes sense.

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fred bentivegna said:

It will not have as much effect as follow. However, it will increase the follow effect (using rt hand english in this instance). As i previously stated, english will help to increase or decrease the carom angle depending on which english is used.

Beard

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wincardona said:

Since the 2 ball went low i'm assuming he used right hand english, had he used left hand english, with the same hit he would of come closer to making it. That's the way I figure the english to effect the shot. Are you in agreement?

Billy I.

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fred bentivegna said:

Left hand english would have caused him to miss it short even further. You have it backward.

Beard

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fred bentivegna said:

It will not have as much effect as follow. However, it will increase the follow effect (using rt hand english in this instance). As i previously stated, english will help to increase or decrease the carom angle depending on which english is used.

Beard

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wincardona said:

Since the 2 ball went low i'm assuming he used right hand english, had he used left hand english, with the same hit he would of come closer to making it. That's the way I figure the english to effect the shot. Are you in agreement?

Billy I.

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fred bentivegna said:

Left hand english would have caused him to miss it short even further. You have it backward.

Beard

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wincardona said:

I don't really know for sure so I must and will 'willingly' defer to you. The Master Beard.

Dr. Bill

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stevelomako said:

Oh my God!


I'm saving this for you Freddie.

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wincardona said:

I don't really know for sure so I must and will 'willingly' defer to you. The Master Beard.

Dr. Bill

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onepockethacker said:

since the ball you are hitting first is a solid you need to load the cueball up with high draw. If you were hitting a stripe first obviously you would need low follow.. And if you were playing 8 ball and your on the 8 ball, pass the shot up it doesnt go. Hope this cleared everything up for everybody... Holy shit im starting to sound and think like billy and freddy..... Im screwed...

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