Bernie vs Lenny circa 2010

Well I was just going over some old matches and this came up in our match. Wondering what shot you guys would shoot here being in Bernie's shoes?

Tough spot to be in. I would bank the 2 ball out of there briskly (it's in my way, anyhow) and follow with the cb to get behind the ball nearest the short rail. Not so hard if one is careful.

What first comes to my mind -- as long as the cue ball destination area I've drawn works for this -- is to double up the balls facing Lenny's pocket by sending whitey up to the head cushion something like this.

Try to double up down table.
Rod.

androd said:

Try to double up down table.
Rod.

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I'll be damned... I finally got a shot that someone else would shoot. I drew up mine before looking at anyone else's. I just want to put you straight at those 3 balls there.... no shot

CaliRed said:

I'll be damned... I finally got a shot that someone else would shoot. I drew up mine before looking at anyone else's. I just want to put you straight at those 3 balls there.... no shot

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That is an excellent choice, Red. Now none of these guys will give you weight...

Doc

I'm probably shooting Steve's shot..good call Steve...

Imo it's preferable to Rod and Greg's similar shot because after shooting the Rod/Greg shot, your opponent will have a strong response...he can bank the one ball at the balls by his hole...
...whereas with Steve's shot, the 1 ball will be opened up a little bit (a good improvement) and the resultant cueball angle leaves the opponent pretty safe.

- Gho$t

PS, And if I was shooting I might try to take Steve's shot a little further = instead of leaving the cueball where Steve depicted, I would have it bounce softly off of the head rail and end up snookered up-against the bottom of the orange ball.

Whats wrong with 2 railing that (unidentifiable) ball everbody is playing safe off of, towards your hole,...and leaving the cue ball right by the chalk, on the end rail ???..sheeesh, its automatic...

PS..Just one more reason the Goast doesn't have a prayer, against moi...he lacks imagination and fortitude. (AKA balls)

SJDinPHX said:

Whats wrong with 2 railing that (unidentifiable) ball everbody is playing safe off of, towards your hole,...and leaving the cue ball right by the chalk, on the end rail ???..sheeesh, its automatic...

PS..Just one more reason the Goast doesn't have a prayer, against moi...he lacks imagination and fortitude. (AKA balls)

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I like your shot also, you need to create a better position for yourself because your opponent will on his next shot put you in trouble if you don't free up the congestion on your side of the table. By leaving him up table on the left, your asking for trouble if the balls on your side remain tied up. I wouldn't be afraid of leaving him long and straight on the 14 ball, as long as I rearranged the balls a little.

Billy I.

SJDinPHX said:

Whats wrong with 2 railing that (unidentifiable) ball everbody is playing safe off of, towards your hole,...and leaving the cue ball right by the chalk, on the end rail ???..sheeesh, its automatic...

PS..Just one more reason the Goast doesn't have a prayer, against moi...he lacks imagination and fortitude. (AKA balls)

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Papie.....I needle you so brutally/successfully most of the time, that unlike you, I don't have to joke on you every time...like right here for example...that said...

I like your shot - it's an excellent aggressive shot-choice here.

- Gho$ty...

Well here is what Bernie did.

One Pocket Ghost said:

I'm probably shooting Steve's shot..good call Steve...

Imo it's preferable to Rod and Greg's similar shot because after shooting the Rod/Greg shot, your opponent will have a strong response...he can bank the one ball at the balls by his hole...
...whereas with Steve's shot, the 1 ball will be opened up a little bit (a good improvement) and the resultant cueball angle leaves the opponent pretty safe.

Click to expand...

Ghoats,
Looks like you'll have some coaching to do in your partner game.
Rod.

androd said:

Ghoats,
Looks like you'll have some coaching to do in your partner game
Rod.

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Hey android.....You're right, I will be coaching......and if you care to notice just by chance, that striped ball came back and blocked the one ball - otherwise Lenny would be banking that one at his hole area, just like I said.....


- Ghoasty

One Pocket Ghost said:

Hey android.....You're right, I will be coaching......and if you care to notice just by chance, that striped ball came back and blocked the one ball - otherwise Lenny would be banking that one at his hole area, just like I said.....

- Ghoasty

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It was a bad spot. There was a pretty good return from either position.
Roid.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Hey android.....You're right, I will be coaching......and if you care to notice just by chance, that striped ball came back and blocked the one ball - otherwise Lenny would be banking that one at his hole area, just like I said.....

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Bernie didn't hit the straight-back very well. If he got the ball anywhere near his hole, the opponent wouldn't be able to bank the 1-ball to his side, especially from the head rail. The 1-ball bank a real risky shot anyway. Too many things could go wrong, and leave a good return shot. Greg/Bernie's shot is the one I'd use.

Doc

gulfportdoc said:

Bernie didn't hit the straight-back very well. If he got the ball anywhere near his hole, the opponent wouldn't be able to bank the 1-ball to his side, especially from the head rail. The 1-ball bank a real risky shot anyway. Too many things could go wrong, and leave a good return shot. Greg/Bernie's shot is the one I'd use.

Doc

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Since you responded to my post...

Correction Doc....Neither Rod, or Greg, ever said they were trying to bank that ball straight back - they said they were playing a safety off of that ball...I don't know what Bernie's objective was....go back and look at Greg's greenshot post - he shows the ball not even reaching the side pocket, and says that's where he wanted it to end up...that's the shot/objective that I was opposing...

All that said...If in fact there was room for that ball to be banked straight back - then I would also definitely like that shot the best.

- Ghost

One Pocket Ghost said:

Since you responded to my post...

Correction Doc....Neither Rod, or Greg, ever said they were trying to bank that ball straight back - they said they were playing a safety off of that ball...I don't know what Bernie's objective was....go back and look at Greg's greenshot post - he shows the ball not even reaching the side pocket, and says that's where he wanted it to end up...that's the shot/objective that I was opposing...

All that said...If in fact there was room for that ball to be banked straight back - then I would also definitely like that shot the best.

- Ghost

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I didn't draw the arrow showing it going that far, because as I see it, you have to cut it quite a bit to miss the ball that's above it. Because of that much of a cut, there isn't much of the object ball to kill the cueball and I"m playing all cueball here to increase my chances of getting the cueball where I want it.

Rod might have a different story.....

CaliRed said:

I didn't draw the arrow showing it going that far, because as I see it, you have to cut it quite a bit to miss the ball that's above it. Because of that much of a cut, there isn't much of the object ball to kill the cueball and I"m playing all cueball here to increase my chances of getting the cueball where I want it.

Rod might have a different story.....

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That's the way I see it as well, if you're playing off the ball Bernie played off. But I still like SJD'S shot the best, particularly playing a B player. I might even shoot it playing an A player. If I was confident I could lay the cue ball down near or frozen to the top rail, i'm definetly playing it.

Billy I.

SJDinPHX said:

Whats wrong with 2 railing that (unidentifiable) ball everbody is playing safe off of, towards your hole,...and leaving the cue ball right by the chalk, on the end rail ???..sheeesh, its automatic...

PS..Just one more reason the Goast doesn't have a prayer, against moi...he lacks imagination and fortitude. (AKA balls)

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Very nice indeed Dick.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Since you responded to my post...

Correction Doc....Neither Rod, or Greg, ever said they were trying to bank that ball straight back - they said they were playing a safety off of that ball...I don't know what Bernie's objective was....go back and look at Greg's greenshot post - he shows the ball not even reaching the side pocket, and says that's where he wanted it to end up...that's the shot/objective that I was opposing...

All that said...If in fact there was room for that ball to be banked straight back - then I would also definitely like that shot the best.

Click to expand...

This is one of those layouts where it would be helpful to see it from an aerial view. My guess is that Bernie's main objective with his shot was to freeze the CB on the head rail, which he did very nicely, although he also ended up putting the 1 and 12 balls out of play for himself. [As a side note, look how long Bernie stayed down on the shot. Perfect form.] From my estimate of the perspective, it looks as though the 12 could have been banked fuller, thereby missing the 1, and still allowing a safe head-rail leave. If the 12 ball gets near Bernie's pocket, it puts his opponent in a bind.

SJD and Cardone's shot certainly is a possible good choice, but it has to be executed perfectly. The 2 rail angle would not permit banking the 12 to Bernie's long rail, inside the 5 and 2 balls. So when the 12 is banked into the other balls, there definitely could be an unintended bad result for the "Bernie" player-- especially if it kicks a ball or two towards the opponent's hole.

If the CB is not left right in the #1 corner, or frozen to one of the rails, the opponent then has a makeable shot on the 14, or anything else that's kicked into play. Depending on the CB leave the opponent could shoot the 14, and not leave a shot on the 8 ball.

The key for me in this layout is whether the 12 ball banks straight back, or can pass the 1 ball. If it does, that's a much stronger shot than is the 2-railer.

Doc