Boston Shorty

JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
Who is Boston Shorty? Larry Johnson or Morton Goldberg?

Here is an article on AzBilliards about Larry Johnson ---> Larry Johnson

Here is an article on Wikipedia about Morton Goldberg ---> Morton Goldberg

Both claim to be "Boston Shorty."

Is this the case of a nickname given to two different players? I know that Larry Lisciotti was known as "The Prince" in some circles, as is Corey Duel today.

Just noticed in this article that Larry's gravestone is engraved "Just passing thru."

According to IPT bio, Corey's alias is also The Prince of Pool.

I guess the question I am asking is this: Are there two Boston Shortys?
 
C

chief

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
46
Jam, Boston SHorty is Larry Johnson. I new him pretty good, we both lived in Somerville Ma. The person who has a lot of info about Shorty is Mike Nicaloro, they were best friends for many years.
 
gulfportdoc

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
12,685
From
Gulfport, Mississippi
This is quite a mystery. I've never heard of Goldberg, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Danny Diliberto is from Rochester, so he would probably have heard of Goldberg. Beard might know, or might be willing to check with Danny. Perhaps 3C Bill would know as well.

There are a lot of possibilities here. It could be a hoax. Surely if Goldberg beat all those guys, someone would have heard of him. That also rules out his being a good club player who was just named "Boston Shorty" by the locals. Perhaps it was a different city or different nickname...

Keep us updated on this one!

Doc
 
NH Steve

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,392
From
New Hampshire
chief said:
Jam, Boston SHorty is Larry Johnson. I new him pretty good, we both lived in Somerville Ma. The person who has a lot of info about Shorty is Mike Nicaloro, they were best friends for many years.
Click to expand...

This is definitely true. I remember reading about that other name. I have no clue though.

Odd to read that Goldberg article though. My impression was that despite being short, the real Boston Shorty hated to use the bridge. He played position to avoid it and he got permission to climb on the table whenever he could. Larry Johnson (the real Boston Shorty in my world) lived to play in the Grady's World One Pocket tournament, November, 2000. I know that because I was there and saw him play. Lisciotti also played in it. I guess it was kind of a swan song for both of them. Geez, I'm just noticing that Ervolino and Ginky also played in that. :(
 
NH Steve

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,392
From
New Hampshire
By the way, that is Shorty's mother in blue in the background watching in this Stardust era photo. Larry was a bachelor and lived with his mother for many years. This was originally a black and white photo but the colorizing was done for the late New England pool historian Ray Desell -- main founder of the New England Pool and Billiard Hall of Fame. Ray could definitely have cleared this question of two different Boston Shorty's up.

 
C

chief

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
46
NH Steve said:
By the way, that is Shorty's mother in blue in the background watching in this Stardust era photo. Larry was a bachelor and lived with his mother for many years. This was originally a black and white photo but the colorizing was done for the late New England pool historian Ray Desell -- main founder of the New England Pool and Billiard Hall of Fame. Ray could definitely have cleared this question of two different Boston Shorty's up.

Click to expand...

Steve, all very true. He lived in the same house almost his entire adult life and never married. I was at that tourney also and when he was inducted into both hall of fame, the onepocket and the other one. Almost all of shorty's trophies are now in a bar in Davis square in somerville, I used to eat there all the time.
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
Oh, my, I love these posts on this thread. Keep 'em coming. That color-treated photo is extremely cool. Love it!

Who was this player Boston Shorty? What separated him from all the rest? What was he like, his personality, his tableside demeanor? Was his best game one-hole?

I have another burning question that's been bugging me for a long time. Pardon me for asking a punctuation question, but is it "one pocket" (no hyphen) or one-pocket (with hyphen)?

Is there a time when the hyphen is used when "one pocket" is an adjective?

Adjective Example: He is a one-pocket player. [used as descriptive adjective before noun]
Noun Example: One pocket is a cool pool game. [used as noun]
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
gulfportdoc said:
This is quite a mystery. I've never heard of Goldberg, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Danny Diliberto is from Rochester, so he would probably have heard of Goldberg. Beard might know, or might be willing to check with Danny. Perhaps 3C Bill would know as well.

There are a lot of possibilities here. It could be a hoax. Surely if Goldberg beat all those guys, someone would have heard of him. That also rules out his being a good club player who was just named "Boston Shorty" by the locals. Perhaps it was a different city or different nickname...

Keep us updated on this one!

Doc
Click to expand...

I will do so, Doc. I'm trying to update the American Pool Player Category with new articles as well as beefing up the older ones. I was surprised to read about Morton Goldberg being a "Boston Shorty." :p

I'm going to do a little more digging and see what I can come with, but this forum is informative. It does help to learn from those who actually knew the players themselves. It forms a more detailed portrait, so to speak, and that's what I'm looking for. :cool:
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
NH Steve said:
This is definitely true. I remember reading about that other name. I have no clue though.

Odd to read that Goldberg article though. My impression was that despite being short, the real Boston Shorty hated to use the bridge. He played position to avoid it and he got permission to climb on the table whenever he could. Larry Johnson (the real Boston Shorty in my world) lived to play in the Grady's World One Pocket tournament, November, 2000. I know that because I was there and saw him play. Lisciotti also played in it. I guess it was kind of a swan song for both of them. Geez, I'm just noticing that Ervolino and Ginky also played in that. :(
Click to expand...

That is a strange irony there. :(

Interesting that Boston Shorty did not like the mechanical bridge, which is a pool tool that Willie Mosconi advocated over and over again in his instructional books.

For some reason, I always remember this phrase: When in doubt, use the mechanical bridge. :)
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
chief said:
Jam, Boston SHorty is Larry Johnson. I new him pretty good, we both lived in Somerville Ma. The person who has a lot of info about Shorty is Mike Nicaloro, they were best friends for many years.
Click to expand...

Wish we could get some more data on him, Chief. If you see Mike Nicaloro, I would love to learn more about this pool legend. I realize it's word of mouth, but in the pool world, that's the only way we can get some things pre-Internet days. The Internet became a prominent data-gatherer in the '90s. Players before this time, there's just not much around unless they were people like Fats and Mosconi.
 
fred bentivegna

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
From
chicago illinois
My new book, The Encyclopedia of Pool Hustlers will clear up much of these controversies. I have a couple of pages on Larry Johnson. Not a word on Morton whatshisname.

Beard
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
fred bentivegna said:
My new book, The Encyclopedia of Pool Hustlers will clear up much of these controversies. I have a couple of pages on Larry Johnson. Not a word on Morton whatshisname.

Beard
Click to expand...

Can you give us a little Boston Shorty appetizer? :D
 
fred bentivegna

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
From
chicago illinois
JAM said:
Can you give us a little Boston Shorty appetizer? :D
Click to expand...

Excerpt from upcoming book, EOPH

The best Shorty story is the one “Brooklyn Pancho” (Vince Carelli), nee Harvey Strauss, told, about when Shorty was sent in to Allinger’s pool room in Philly to trap the pool-playing bookmaker, Harry Pietros. Pancho and other hustlers had already sent in a legion of players to beat Harry, and he had become very paranoid about any strangers. But Harry was a pretty good player himself, not in Shorty’s league of course, and he would still usually try out any player that he didn't know.
While Harry didn't know was what Shorty actually looked like, Shorty did have a big reputation. The hustlers knew if Shorty opened his mouth with that thick Boston accent, Harry would quickly figure out who he was.
So Pancho and the hustlers came up with the devious plan of passing Shorty off as a deaf mute. The scheme started off well. Shorty was making phony hand signals to his backers while he was pounding on Harry. Shorty’s guys had to keep running into the bathroom because they couldn't keep from laughing out loud.
Everything was going off perfectly until Harry “pushed- out” on a shot and absentmindedly asked Shorty if he wanted to take the shot himself or leave it to him. Shorty, not thinking either, said, "Nah, you geh’ ahead and shoot it." Harry started looking up to the heavens and began pleading to his dead mother, “They’re doing it to me again, Ma! They’re doing it to me again! ” Uproar ensued immediately thereafter because Harry was also a mobbed-up guy, but that's another story.


Beard
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
fred bentivegna said:
Excerpt from upcoming book, EOPH

The best Shorty story is the one “Brooklyn Pancho” (Vince Carelli), nee Harvey Strauss, told, about when Shorty was sent in to Allinger’s pool room in Philly to trap the pool-playing bookmaker, Harry Pietros. Pancho and other hustlers had already sent in a legion of players to beat Harry, and he had become very paranoid about any strangers. But Harry was a pretty good player himself, not in Shorty’s league of course, and he would still usually try out any player that he didn't know.
While Harry didn't know was what Shorty actually looked like, Shorty did have a big reputation. The hustlers knew if Shorty opened his mouth with that thick Boston accent, Harry would quickly figure out who he was.
So Pancho and the hustlers came up with the devious plan of passing Shorty off as a deaf mute. The scheme started off well. Shorty was making phony hand signals to his backers while he was pounding on Harry. Shorty’s guys had to keep running into the bathroom because they couldn't keep from laughing out loud.
Everything was going off perfectly until Harry “pushed- out” on a shot and absentmindedly asked Shorty if he wanted to take the shot himself or leave it to him. Shorty, not thinking either, said, "Nah, you geh’ ahead and shoot it." Harry started looking up to the heavens and began pleading to his dead mother, “They’re doing it to me again, Ma! They’re doing it to me again! ” Uproar ensued immediately thereafter because Harry was also a mobbed-up guy, but that's another story.


Beard
Click to expand...

Now, that's what I'm talking about. Thanks for the taste of what's to come in your new literary work of art! :)
 
JAM

JAM

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
1,041
Alfie Taylor

Alfie Taylor

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
189
Praise from ceasar...

Praise from ceasar...

"Shorty played all games good, Alfie. Even three cushion".
Eddie "The Knoxville bear" Taylor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top