Choose to have 6 balls or 5 balls

After a game the other day, with this situation, and the balls laying about like this, with a 6-5 score..I initiated this make-your-choice conversation...

This is the layout - you're a good player but not a pro, and your opponent is a good player but not a pro, and the two of you are an even match in all facets of the game - the score is 6-5 with both of you going to 8 - the top left pocket has the 6 balls, and the bottom left pocket, with the superior table-layout position, has 5 balls..and we'll say that this is the hill-hill game in a race to 5 for $200..at this point it's the player who has the top left pocket and the 6 balls whose turn it is to shoot...ok, you get to make this choice...

You can choose to be the incoming shooter, with the 6 balls and having the top left pocket - or you can choose to have the bottom left pocket, with 5 balls, and have your opponent be the incoming shooter...kind of a tough choice I would say...

The incoming shooter is not quite in a trap, but he is in a somewhat uncomfortable position...I would say that he's probably going to either thin the 10, kick the 11 from underneath, or try and fram the 10-11 out of there...he can't see the 8 or the 11, just so you all know...

My choice is - I would take the the bottom pocket and the 5 balls...

Which choice do you guys pick?

- Ghost

Yeah, I see what you mean. The next couple shots could definitely determine a winner either way, but the lower pocket sure has the edge in the lie of the balls. It's a good example of an unequal score being equalized by a big advantage in the layout.

But I think I might take the 6 balls and kick under the 11 and do battle from there. My thinking is with that shot I get the cue ball in between their pocket and those balls, which would be a good first step toward neutralizing their advantage.

I like Ghostie's choice. It will be hard for the other guy not to leave him something after the first shot. Even if he executes flawlessly, its hard to imagine not leaving a bank or something from which to stay in control. If the other guy hits a kick too hard or a little off, its curtains.

I will take the five balls and let you shoot. As Steve noted, I would expect you to kick under the 11 ball, and that's a bit spooky. You will have to hit it hard enough to not take a scratch, which would leave us 5-5, with a ball on the spot. And if you leave me a long-rail bank on the 10 or the 1, towards my pocket, I might win right there. I don't want the other side of this prop.

All the perfectly stated reasons that Petie and vapros posted, are exactly why I would choose to take the 5 balls.

- Ghost

This is a good way to do a WWYD. It brings in larger strategies over and above what shot to shoot next.

I would also choose to be the player with five balls.

Old School

For me this is a variation on the maxim , You can't win with the shot , but you can lose with it .
I'm taking the 5 balls and letting my opponent shoot.
Of course if you have a nice table that doesn't roll off , you should be able to kick safe over 90% of the time .
The problem is, I don't find most equipment in the poolrooms I have been to , to be that accurate.
You have to learn the rolls on most tables and when you start bumping balls like these , it is very easy to sell out, especially if you try to hit it good enough to not take a scratch!
Most of the tables I have played on all over the US, have had some pretty funny rolls.
Just a product of most of them being 50 or 60 years old, and having been taken apart and put together by different people over the years .

Billy Jackets said:

For me this is a variation on the maxim , You can't win with the shot , but you can lose with it .

Click to expand...

Yep. If the best the shooter can do is get safe, better to be the other guy.

The 6-5 score seems to me like one of Ghost's little head fakes to see if we're paying attention.

pj
chgo

xxxxxx

As I have stated before. The position of the balls determines the actual "score."
ie., after a good break the score is 0 0 but who is actually ahead?

Beard

What did BillyJackets say? You cant win from here but you can lose. Dat sez it all.

fred bentivegna said:

As I have stated before. The position of the balls determines the actual "score."
ie., after a good break the score is 0 0 but who is actually ahead? How many breaks have you ever seen that the player didn't "get out of ", even if it took 10 shots?

Beard

What did BillyJackets say? You cant win from here but you can lose. Dat sez it all.It says nothing, you can always lose.

Click to expand...

Wonderful avoidance of the question. You should have been a politician.

You Chicago guys.

RBL

Hello Ghosty, im definately letting my opponent shoot with the 1 ball lead. Im actually hoping he kicks into the bottom rail softly to the balls because unless he gets real lucky I believe Ill be able to come off one of those balls and leave the cue ball up by the top pocket on my side of the table. From there hes gonna have a big problem!!! Keith

Cowboy Dennis said:

Wonderful avoidance of the question. You should have been a politician.

You Chicago guys.

RBL

Click to expand...

Now, since you brought that up. Here is a quote from the political editor of the Chicago Reader from his comments following my story in the Reader.

"Mayor Rahm could learn a thing or two from the great pool hustler Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna—if he hasn't already."

by Ben Joravsky

Well, so far, choosing to have 5 balls and letting the opponent shoot from here, we have:

Ghost
Petie
vapros
Old School
Billy Jackets
Pat
Freddy
Keith
Billy I.

Choosing to have the 6 balls and shoot, we have:

Steve Booth
Gulfport Doc
beatle
Cowboy Dennis


Waitin' to see more guys choices...


- Ghost

i like going to two instead of three.

although in this spot i dont think there is a big difference in the chances of either winning.

fred bentivegna said:

Now, since you brought that up. Here is a quote from the political editor of the Chicago Reader from his comments following my story in the Reader.

"Mayor Rahm could learn a thing or two from the great pool hustler Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna—if he hasn't already."

by Ben Joravsky

Click to expand...

does this mean the mayor cant bank?

Tell the guy that it's pretty much even, re-rack and double up.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Well, so far, choosing to have 5 balls and letting the opponent shoot from here, we have:

Ghost
Petie
vapros
Old School
Billy Jackets
Pat
Freddy
Keith

Choosing to have the 6 balls and shoot, we have:

Steve Booth
Gulfport Doc
beatle


Waitin' to see more guys choices...


- Ghost

Click to expand...

Considering on how the balls are positioned for the player needing three balls I would make him the favorite in this game. All four balls are advanced and close to his side rail which makes it difficult for his opponent to move them. The player needing two balls will always be shooting from the head end of the table which in many cases will be problematic. The player needing three balls figures to have many "free pops" at his pocket because of the balls being hard to move. Plus when he doesn't have a free pop he should have the ability to position the cue ball back up table close to a rail, from there his opponent will always be in distress.

Bill Incardona