You vs. Him #6969

He just broke and it's your shot. What would you do?

I changed my shot: (looking too late last night) I would just shoot straight into that 3 and stick. Drawing back (my previous shot) would be too tough considering where the white is.

this position sets up nicely for a 3/4 rail kick putting cue ball on the bottom rail under the 10 ball and protecting the 14 ball's position. my second choise is the bank the 8 ball over to my side rail and playing the cue ball on top of the stack. this gives me a ball on my side and prevents him from just rolling the cue ball up table by the top corner pocket. the problem i see with this shoot is it may allow him the come off the stack and put whitey against the side of the stack.
of these two options i like the kick around the table. keith

sappo said:

this position sets up nicely for a 3/4 rail kick putting cue ball on the bottom rail under the 10 ball and protecting the 14 ball's position. my second choise is the bank the 8 ball over to my side rail and playing the cue ball on top of the stack. this gives me a ball on my side and prevents him from just rolling the cue ball up table by the top corner pocket. the problem i see with this shoot is it may allow him the come off the stack and put whitey against the side of the stack.
of these two options i like the kick around the table. keith

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I like protecting the 14 also and the eight ball bank which reminds me of The Androd shot in the Ochoa Frost diagram. You could come off the eight if you can feel the natural carom with a natural ball I think. I like all these principles. The eight can go into the rail first or hit the one first, getting the one on your side as well and it's so easy to perform.

I'm gonna move the 3 and the 10. I will hit the 3 in the face, driving it to the short rail and then into the 10. I think there is a real chance that I can move them both away from his pocket. If either goes in his pocket (most likely the 3) I can stand that. Protecting the 14 ball is not real high on my priorities.

I probably won't like my next shot, but with nothing near his pocket I can expect to survive another inning.

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Jimmy B said:

I like protecting the 14 also and the eight ball bank which reminds me of The Androd shot in the Ochoa Frost diagram. You could come off the eight if you can feel the natural carom with a natural ball I think. I like all these principles. The eight can go into the rail first or hit the one first, getting the one on your side as well and it's so easy to perform.

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I like both of these looking on my monitor -- at the table one or the other of these would probably step forward as a clear choice for me.

sidepocketkid said:

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I think you who like shooting the eight into the back of the one need to consider a couple things. First drawing into the stack is not as easy as you make it seem. Draw too hard and you may open up a free bank on the two or fifteen. Draw into the twelve and you leave your opponent in a position where he can lightly shoot into any one of two or three balls and stick you in the same place you left him but now he has a few more balls loose around his pocket. The second consideration is to understand that if you hit too deep under the one ball with the eight, the eight is subject to return toward the stack and open up balls on your opponent's side of the stack.

There are a lot of "what if's" to take into consideration. Shots of this sensitive nature we can't always be certain about the quality of execution. Hit perfectly the shot can be somewhat productive but in my opinion is not worth the risk and it does nothing about a ball which poses a severe and immediate threat.

There does appear to be two easy choices however which helps to solve the ten ball problem and one of them has already been described. Play off the eight with a little running english and kick behind the ten. This shot should be easy to gauge as long as it passes by the eleven which from this view it does. I would not try to pocket the eight in the side though because you can just as easily play the eight over to your side of the table. Still better I think is to play the same cue ball position shot using the six as opposed to the eight. The angle off the six as opposed to the eight should be just as easy to guage coming off the back of the ten and the six is a slightly bigger threat.

I wish to thank Dennis once again for his wwyd contributions. These alway get a great deal of response and are enthusiastically enjoyed by us all. Moreover, I suspect there are many who frequent this site who are novice players who are trying very hard to learn and appreciate this great game. They are getting a free education from some of the very best.

Tom

Cowboy Dennis said:

He just broke and it's your shot. What would you do?

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Hola Dennis. This may not be what I would shoot here, just because it looks like the cue ball is a little too high, but I just wanted to share a shot I have had success with after the break in similar situations.

The shot would be to cut the 3 ball into the bottom of of the 10 ball so that the 3 two rails out of the vicinity and the 10 one rails towards the stack. You need to draw the cue ball so that the cue ball one rails into the bottom of the stack and sticks. With this shot, the 10 ball is hit kind of thin, so it's not moving with a lot of speed, reducing risk of of a kiss with the cue ball.

Another variation of this shot is when the 10 ball is on the bottom rail, so you would shoot the 3 into the top of the 10, two railing the 10 out of the area and one railing the 3 out of the area, drawing the cue into the stack.

another good RBL layout....

obviously, there are several viable shots here, but i think if you can lock him up good under the 10 it would be a very strong move. i think it works better off the 6 than 8.

I dont think the 3 is Available.

Going into the stack from there is a rough one.

The 6 doesn't look like a natural angle to the 10. The 8 looks more natural into the 10. The 3/4 rail looks good if hit well. OMG lots of ways to sell out.

senor said:

Hola Dennis. This may not be what I would shoot here, just because it looks like the cue ball is a little too high, but I just wanted to share a shot I have had success with after the break in similar situations.

The shot would be to cut the 3 ball into the bottom of of the 10 ball so that the 3 two rails out of the vicinity and the 10 one rails towards the stack. You need to draw the cue ball so that the cue ball one rails into the bottom of the stack and sticks. With this shot, the 10 ball is hit kind of thin, so it's not moving with a lot of speed, reducing risk of of a kiss with the cue ball.

Another variation of this shot is when the 10 ball is on the bottom rail, so you would shoot the 3 into the top of the 10, two railing the 10 out of the area and one railing the 3 out of the area, drawing the cue into the stack.

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I like your shot Senor. Especially the first one, if laying right.

Another variation of that shot would be to draw the cue ball two rails up by the top left corner pocket, leaving your man straight in on the one and getting more action out of the ten and three. This shot tends to be more powerful on a real tough table though.

I like Senor's and Vapros shot, to clear both the 3 and the 10 out. I don't like the shot of hitting the 8 and rolling behind the 10, still leaves 2 balls by his hole.---Smitty

senor said:

Hola Dennis. This may not be what I would shoot here, just because it looks like the cue ball is a little too high, but I just wanted to share a shot I have had success with after the break in similar situations.

The shot would be to cut the 3 ball into the bottom of of the 10 ball so that the 3 two rails out of the vicinity and the 10 one rails towards the stack. You need to draw the cue ball so that the cue ball one rails into the bottom of the stack and sticks. With this shot, the 10 ball is hit kind of thin, so it's not moving with a lot of speed, reducing risk of of a kiss with the cue ball.

Another variation of this shot is when the 10 ball is on the bottom rail, so you would shoot the 3 into the top of the 10, two railing the 10 out of the area and one railing the 3 out of the area, drawing the cue into the stack.

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Something like this? Yep, the rock is a little high and close to the rail for great accuracy but the idea is valid. I didn't see the shot.

Play the 8 6 combo into the 14 ball send cueball 3 rails behind the 10 ball

Cowboy Dennis said:

Something like this? Yep, the rock is a little high and close to the rail for great accuracy but the idea is valid. I didn't see the shot.


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I didn't think the 3 was available. That shot is the only reasonable shot considering the 3 was available

onepockethacker said:

Play the 8 6 combo into the 14 ball send cueball 3 rails behind the 10 ball

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if you are going to play that why not bank the 6 into the stack(9) rather than at the 14??

Cowboy Dennis said:

Something like this? Yep, the rock is a little high and close to the rail for great accuracy but the idea is valid. I didn't see the shot.

View attachment 7974

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Senor has shot this on me a few times. The first time was the first I'd seen the shot, it is indeed a very valid shot.
Rod

onepockethacker said:

Play the 8 6 combo into the 14 ball send cueball 3 rails behind the 10 ball

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Looks like just the 8 ball into the 14 gives the correct angle to go around a little short. IM(feeble)O.
Rod.

Hey Rob,
How 'bout jumping over the stack and kicking the ten-three-fourteen combo.
The cue ball will stick right there for the follow-up shots.

V. O. R. (Well, maybe not in this case.)

Tom