Efren Reyes vs. Nick Varner 1999 D.C.C. #2

androd · Oct 24, 2011

What ? back to pool

What ? back to pool

tonygreen said:
For conversation sake ... i'm sorry to break up the lovemaking discussion but What would you like to do here Mr. Reyes? ... put the cueball back where it was before back to where it came from close to the 13 ?

I may get involved here.
I rarely take a foul, but see nothing else here.

Rod.
P.S. I forgot to freeze the CB on the rail.

wincardona · Oct 24, 2011

androd said:
I may get involved here.
I rarely take a foul, but see nothing else here.
Rod.
P.S. I forgot to freeze the CB on the rail.

I like your shot providing the 3 ball doesn't pass the 4 ball. If the 4 ball blocks the pocket for the 3 ball I like banking the 6 ball towards the 2 ball leaving the cue ball "FROZEN" to the end rail. This shot could possibly create some problems for Varner, if not than after Varner clears the moved 6 ball then Reyes can take the intentional scratch by kicking.

We must strongly consider the shot selection of these two champions and learn from it. And being at the table to see the angles presented, at times are different than the angle that we depict.

Dr. Bill

tonygreen · Oct 24, 2011

androd said:
I may get involved here.
I rarely take a foul, but see nothing else here.
Rod.
P.S. I forgot to freeze the CB on the rail.

Does this help ? .. I think as in my above quoted take the scratch and put him back.

jtompilot · Oct 24, 2011

Its hard too tell the angle, but a 1/2 ball hit on the right side of the 6 may put the 6 between the qb and 3 with the qb froze on the head rail close the the middle diamond.

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 24, 2011

androd said:
I may get involved here.
I rarely take a foul, but see nothing else here.
Rod.
P.S. I forgot to freeze the CB on the rail.

wincardona said:
I like your shot providing the 3 ball doesn't pass the 4 ball.

Dr. Bill

Nobody's spotted this alternative shot to the intentional scratch yet - and with this shot we eliminate the 3ball threat >>>

You shoot and pocket the 3ball into the upper left hand pocket, while drawing whitey behind the 4 and down behind the 13ball - and the angle on the 3ball looks perfect for the shot...it will take a bit of accuracy (no more so than lagging the intentional though), but it is very do-able, and very possibly the best choice, imonsho...

- Ghost

bstroud · Oct 24, 2011

I see another much more aggressive shot if the 14 goes past the 4? ball.

Shoot the 14 hard into the 2 ball or the combo and put the cue ball up on the rail near the center diamond behind the 3 ball. It's a chance to change the game around but comes with high risk if you don't hit it well.

I would need to know the score in games to decide if it was worth the risk.

Bill Stroud

tonygreen · Oct 24, 2011

the score here is 0-0 and 0-0 ... i.e. 1st game and 15 balls still on the table (correct me if im wrong, nobody owes any yet right?)

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

bstroud said:
I see another much more aggressive shot if the 14 goes past the 4? ball.

Shoot the 14 hard into the 2 ball or the combo and put the cue ball up on the rail near the center diamond behind the 3 ball. It's a chance to change the game around but comes with high risk if you don't hit it well.

I would need to know the score in games to decide if it was worth the risk.

Bill Stroud

Bill, he can't even see the 14 ball, are you sure it's the 14 ball? Please explain your shot. You're not talking about the stripe near the foot spot, are you? That's the 10 ball, and shooting the 10 ball with force will create positive action for your opponent, not you. You have me confused.

Why would the score of the match have a bearing on what shot to shoot?

At all times when you are playing you must play the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game your playing, which will offer you the best chance to win the match. I was always under the impression that one should always shoot the shot that gives them the best chance to win the game, so the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game will obviously give you the best chance to win the match.

Billy I.

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

One Pocket Ghost said:
Nobody's spotted this alternative shot to the intentional scratch yet - and with this shot we eliminate the 3ball threat >>>

You shoot and pocket the 3ball into the upper left hand pocket, while drawing whitey behind the 4 and down behind the 13ball - and the angle on the 3ball looks perfect for the shot...it will take a bit of accuracy (no more so than lagging the intentional though), but it is very do-able, and very possibly the best choice, imonsho...

- Ghost

That shot looks to be high risk to me, clumsy angle. It looks like you have to cut the 3 ball to the right of the top pocket to get the results your looking for. If that's true the 3 ball will possibly bank into the stack and create problems for the shooter. To me the angle looks most natural if you over cut the 3 ball to the right of the top pocket, even though you can play the 3 ball into the pocket and force draw it behind the 4 ball it's a tough hit and feel for me, that shot has always given me trouble in terms of feeling the cue ball.

Billy I.

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 25, 2011

wincardona said:
That shot looks to be high risk to me, clumsy angle. It looks like you have to cut the 3 ball to the right of the top pocket to get the results your looking for. If that's true the 3 ball will possibly bank into the stack and create problems for the shooter. To me the angle looks most natural if you over cut the 3 ball to the right of the top pocket, even though you can play the 3 ball into the pocket and force draw it behind the 4 ball it's a tough hit and feel for me, that shot has always given me trouble in terms of feeling the cue ball.

Billy I.

To my viewing of the wei-table, the angle looks fine for the shot that I suggested...yes, the shot/angle may call for a little bit of a 'stun-draw' type of stroke - but I don't see that as being so tough to execute, as you do - as far as I'm concerned, all good players are familiar with, and experienced with, using that type of stroke on a shot when called for.

- Ghost

SJDinPHX · Oct 25, 2011

one pocket ghost said:
to my viewing of the wei-table, the angle looks fine for the shot that i suggested...yes, the shot/angle may call for a little bit of a 'stun-draw' type of stroke - but i don't see that as being so tough to execute, as you do - as far as i'm concerned, all good players are familiar with, and experienced with, using that type of stroke on a shot when called for.

- ghost

Note to John H; Another juicy prop bet John..I don't think he's even the favorite to make the 3 ball..(much less "stun/draw" the cue ball safe)..The 3 will be flying all over the table..Thats even worse than the "Banger Blast" shot you called him on..

View attachment 4266

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 25, 2011

One Pocket Ghost said:
To my viewing of the wei-table

- Ghost

I only bring this up to tease the Ghost BUT this is not a WEI table!!! This is a picture alterred with lines & arrows by people. The Duck calls it a WEI also. Maybe you guys are related

.

RBL

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

One Pocket Ghost said:
To my viewing of the wei-table, the angle looks fine for the shot that I suggested...yes, the shot/angle may call for a little bit of a 'stun-draw' type of stroke - but I don't see that as being so tough to execute, as you do - as far as I'm concerned, all good players are familiar with, and experienced with, using that type of stroke on a shot when called for.

- Ghost

You could be right about all/most good players are familiar with this type of stroke, but their preference would be to use another stroke if given an option. One that would insure them of not being able to over stroke the shot...especially with the distance of the shot illustrated in this picture. Considering the distance referenced and the angle imo this shot doesn't play as easy as you make it out to ...at least not to me...I did recognize that the shot was available but dismissed it as one of my options because of the degree of difficulty with it for me. I would shoot this shot as an option, providing it was the only option.:sorry But I did learn not to leave it for you when we play.

Billy I.

bstroud · Oct 25, 2011

wincardona said:
Bill, he can't even see the 14 ball, are you sure it's the 14 ball? Please explain your shot. You're not talking about the stripe near the foot spot, are you? That's the 10 ball, and shooting the 10 ball with force will create positive action for your opponent, not you. You have me confused.

Why would the score of the match have a bearing on what shot to shoot? At all times when you are playing you must play the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game your playing, which will offer you the best chance to win the match. I was always under the impression that one should always shoot the shot that gives them the best chance to win the game, so the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game will obviously give you the best chance to win the match.

Billy I.

Billy,

It looks like it could be the 10 ball. If you shoot it into the 11? ball(the combo) it looks like the angle is right to remove most if not all the balls near the pocket. It also looks like the angle is right to send the cue ball to the side rail and down to the end rail behind the 3 ball. A risky shot but early in the match it might be a chance to change the table situation and gain the advantage.

I would not shoot it later in the match.

To me one pocket is all about creating leverage. I choose a lot of shots just for that reason. They are not necessarily the best shot available at the time.
I look at the match, the score, the players' strengths and weakness and decide on what shot to shoot. I take the long view.

Just shooting the correct shot every time is not always the best way to win. Sometimes you need to do something unexpected to win. Winning is different than just playing correctly. I know you know that.

Bill Stroud

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

wincardona said:
You could be right about all/most good players are familiar with this type of stroke, but their preference would be to use another stroke if given an option. One that would insure them of not being able to over stroke the shot...especially with the distance of the shot illustrated in this picture. Considering the distance referenced and the angle imo this shot doesn't play as easy as you make it out to ...at least not to me...I did recognize that the shot was available but dismissed it as one of my options because of the degree of difficulty with it for me. I would shoot this shot as an option, providing it was the only option.:sorry But I did learn not to leave it for you when we play.

Billy I.

Sometimes when a shot comes easy to us it just may not come as easy to the masses. If you noticed some of our members agreed with the intentional scratch kick, but no one opted for the stun draw shot, which to me means that no one liked it well enough to mention it. which brings up another note worthy point, and that is to practice shots of this sort to develop a feel for them. At all distances.

Billy I.

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

bstroud said:
Billy,

It looks like it could be the 10 ball. If you shoot it into the 11? ball(the combo) it looks like the angle is right to remove most if not all the balls near the pocket. It also looks like the angle is right to send the cue ball to the side rail and down to the end rail behind the 3 ball. A risky shot but early in the match it might be a chance to change the table situation and gain the advantage.

I would not shoot it later in the match.

To me one pocket is all about creating leverage. I choose a lot of shots just for that reason. They are not necessarily the best shot available at the time.
I look at the match, the score, the players' strengths and weakness and decide on what shot to shoot. I take the long view.

Just shooting the correct shot every time is not always the best way to win. Sometimes you need to do something unexpected to win. Winning is different than just playing correctly. I know you know that.

Bill Stroud

I believe the 10 ball is sandwiched between both the 7 and 8 balls which would preclude you to strike the combination to remove balls by your opponents pocket. If you refer to Dennis's reference chart, the one clarifying the colors post#3 maybe you could describe what it is you're trying to do.

And when I say that the match score has nothing to do with your shot selection that's exactly what I mean. What ever criterion you use to decide what shot to choose has every thing to do with the game your playing and zero to do with the score of the match. You should always shoot the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game you're playing...unless you're dumping...:lol

Billy I.

Skin · Oct 25, 2011

androd said:
I may get involved here.
I rarely take a foul, but see nothing else here.
Rod.
P.S. I forgot to freeze the CB on the rail.

Rod, do you think there isn't room to go between the 9-14 and kick up off the left side of the 12, and freeze

the cb onto the long rail for a legal shot? Pretty close to the same leave. Not real easy, not real productive, but saves a ball if it's there.

Skin

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

SJDinPHX said:
Note to John H; Another juicy prop bet John..I don't think he's even the favorite to make the 3 ball..(much less "stun/draw" the cue ball safe)..The 3 will be flying all over the table..Thats even worse than the "Banger Blast" shot you called him on..

View attachment 4266

Even though SJD is joking, he could be on to something:lol Unless you bought Freddies aiming book "Balls that don't go but do"

Billy I.

wincardona · Oct 25, 2011

Skin said:
Rod, do you think there isn't room to go between the 9-14 and kick up off the left side of the 12, and freeze the cb onto the long rail for a legal shot? Pretty close to the same leave. Not real easy, not real productive, but saves a ball if it's there.

Skin

Even though i'm not Rod i'll try to answer your question. To me there doesn't look like there's room to do what you feel may be available, but you could possibly strike the 9 thinly enough to carom off the 14 ball and send whitey behind the 1 ball, near the rail. That could possibly work and worth the thought.

Billy I.

Skin · Oct 25, 2011

wincardona said:
Even though i'm not Rod i'll try to answer your question. To me there doesn't look like there's room to do what you feel may be available, but you could possibly strike the 9 thinly enough to carom off the 14 ball and send whitey behind the 1 ball. That could possibly work and worth the thought.

Billy I.

Billy, that's a good thought by you on how to possibly make a shot in that direction work. Looks like the 2 may be blocking, also, but as we saw with Varner's safety, the angles aren't always clear on the live shots. Just thought I'd bring it up as another possibility if it's there. Thanks.

Skin

Efren Reyes vs. Nick Varner 1999 D.C.C. #2

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