Efren/Scott shot

I want to sum this up. For me its real simple. It looks like to reach the 8 ball and try to get shape on the balls efren tried for he had to stretch or use the bridge.. so for me thats out. So there are 2 options for me. Cross the 15 ball pocket speed and make the 6 ball with the cueball and then play safe. I would have a 6 to 1 lead (if I make the 15 ball). There is NO WAY im crossing the 15 ball, trying to make the 6 ball and get shape because if I get shape on a ball for my hole I also give Scott shape on a pretty easy bank if I miss the 15 ball. If im going to risk giving Scott a shot it is going to be because I get underneath the 15 ball and then miss the EASIEST bank in one pocket!! Which leads me to my selection.. getting under the 15 ball and bank for the win. If I dont get real good on the bank(meaning the angle to get shape on the other balls) then im just going to roll in the 6 ball and freeze him to the 15 ball. Im up 5 to 1 and Scott will probably have to take a kick scratch uptable. I dont love this part especially for less skilled players because one screw up and scott runs the hell out. However im pretty confident I can get(and especially efren) good shape on the bank. Scott wins ALOT/majority of his matches just on intimidation alone..(people shit on themselves and play scared) Me personally Im not going to pass that bank up.. i think if you do you pump Scott up and it shows fear. Im going to fire that bank in run the other 2 balls, shake his hand and tell him good luck. To play timid against guys like Scott and Efren you are playing into their hands and begging to get beat. Scott now and efren in his prime intimidate people. People play not to lose instead of shooting to win. If you can shoot the EASIEST bank in one pocket to beat one of these guys DO IT EVERYTIME. This goes especially for less skilled players.

Well I set the whole table up here at Hall of Fame and not one person wants to play the shot to cross the 15 and make the 6.

Everyone wants to bank the 15 and get up on the other balls to run out or...the next choice is what Efren tried, make the 8 and 2 rail the cue ball for shapes.


Just saying what the verdict was.

The first thing I'll say, and admittedly i'm just rewording my previous points, but I want everyone to go to their table and put a penny where they want to stop the cb off that follow shot, mind shoot it if no table. I mean how many times out of 10 are you getting like right smack dab, or thereabouts, on the penny with a straight in follow shot? It really should be a big portion of the time. Combine that with coming over and looking where you want to get on the bank before the shot and you are talking about ball in hand position pretty much.

I personally see 2 ways to get on that bank, I like both of them myself. The one i'd probably play for you can literally roll that bank in with pocket speed and have a GREAT chance at getting on any number of balls (don't have the pic in front of me now). The other way would be to roll forward a tad less, get "straight in" on the bank, and then stiff it and pull over. The problem with that second way is if you miss it a tad, the speed will make you actually miss it. But, this is how bank player play position I notice, where they like to stiff balls a little. Either way, I am shooting, but as has been mentioned, that is for ME. Problem is, even if I played a lot stronger I'd still be shooting here. I actually disagree with others in that I think is sends a very weak message to your opponent not to shoot there, and the reason I feel i'm right is all the guys winning the most are shooting from spots like this.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned Go look how awkward those balls lay for scott IF I did miss that bank, which i feel I hardly ever would. Now, I would still feel I lost if I missed that bank, but look at those balls. That is a weak part of the argument, but they just aren't hanging, that's all.

OOPS:frus I set the balls up a little off. I didnt have the 15 that far off the rail which makes a huge difference. I dont think the crossover bank and make the 6 will work with the 15 that far out. I'll try it again tomorrow.

Anybody who misses the 15 ball bank and leaves the 6 ball hanging, with a 5-0 lead, deserves all the terrible things that are liable to happen to him. Scott will be like a duck on a junebug. Efren did the same think in a different way. He missed the 1 ball bank and left the 6 ball hanging with a 5-0 lead. I imagine he would agree that he deserved what he got.

He would have deserved what he got if he shot the 15 ball bank -- a win

I set up the cross-over bank with the 6 hanging and shot it once. the bank went, the 6 went and the cue ball drifted up about a diamond up the side rail. I just don't like leaving hangers in my opponent's pocket if I can avoid it, in case I get out of line and happen to leave myself trapped, or I have to shoot something I could miss -- it seems to make the shot a little tougher knowing there is a hanger in their pocket, lol.

PS if the score was reversed (and I was behind in the count instead of ahead) I would definitely play position for the bank, and aggressively play position from the bank to try to run more balls. Whether that was position above or below the 15 I would have had to be at the table. I will say that I am very comfortable with the cross-over bank -- maybe close to the same comfort as the bank from below as long as there is no kiss angle for the cross-over. Which in this situation there would be no kiss angle because the position from the 8-ball was such a no-brainer.

It also does look in the diagram that knocking the 6-ball in with the cross over bank was as natural as it could possibly get, and the range was so close it would have been hard to miss knocking in the 6. If those balls were spread further or a little forward or back, or the 6 was farther from his hole or even in a different part of the pocket, then that would have changed things too. But as it appeared to lie, I still like what I drew.

NH Steve said:

PS if the score was reversed (and I was behind in the count instead of ahead) I would definitely play position for the bank, and aggressively play position from the bank to try to run more balls. Whether that was position above or below the 15 I would have had to be at the table. I will say that I am very comfortable with the cross-over bank -- maybe close to the same comfort as the bank from below as long as there is no kiss angle for the cross-over. Which in this situation there would be no kiss angle because the position from the 8-ball was such a no-brainer.

It also does look in the diagram that knocking the 6-ball in with the cross over bank was as natural as it could possibly get, and the range was so close it would have been hard to miss knocking in the 6. If those balls were spread further or a little forward or back, or the 6 was farther from his hole or even in a different part of the pocket, then that would have changed things too. But as it appeared to lie, I still like what I drew.

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If a player can execute the cue ball at all, it's a hanger to get on the 8 or 9 ball. I don't see Efren having a problem here with his knowledge of 3C!

For a player that has NO use for the "niche" games, they can play one and safe! :frus

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

I think, in general, running pretty easy balls with a hanger in your opponent's pocket is an absolute must. It may be a skill in and of itself, but one very worth trying to master, however you do it up to you of course. Just like kicking, banks, or anything, being able to run balls with "blinders" on is a must - not saying i'm good at it, just making a point. It seems too often we are looking for ways to get their hanger out of there, when our concentration should be spent elsewhere, namely winning the game in this instance.

tylerdurden said:

I think, in general, running pretty easy balls with a hanger in your opponent's pocket is an absolute must. It may be a skill in and of itself, but one very worth trying to master, however you do it up to you of course. Just like kicking, banks, or anything, being able to run balls with "blinders" on is a must - not saying i'm good at it, just making a point. It seems too often we are looking for ways to get their hanger out of there, when our concentration should be spent elsewhere, namely winning the game in this instance.

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I agree with everything, even the part about winning the game. Playing under pressure and succeeding is the best confidence booster one can have, which all champions share. I remember it well.

Dr. Bill