Best spot after 9-8?

Mkbtank · Oct 4, 2015

So I play a local guy for 300 a game. (He will only bet a lot).

We played even several months ago and I won the last 4 sessions. Haven't seen him in a few months due to his work. We played again and he would not play even, so I offered 9-8.

Last week we played I won a couple games. Today we were even after 4 games and he quit, saying that he needs more weight. Of course I pointed out that we just broke even at 9-8, so it's a fair game, but he won't hear it.

I told him that we could play 9/8-8/7 and still got a no.

I'm sure he will accept this after he feels better and has been back playing for a bit. But for now I wanted to ask you all what would you offer if you knew 9-8 was not going to get it done??

Thanks!

RS

gulfportdoc · Oct 4, 2015

Mkbtank said:
So I play a local guy for 300 a game. (He will only bet a lot).

We played even several months ago and I won the last 4 sessions. Haven't seen him in a few months due to his work. We played again and he would not play even, so I offered 9-8.

Last week we played I won a couple games. Today we were even after 4 games and he quit, saying that he needs more weight. Of course I pointed out that we just broke even at 9-8, so it's a fair game, but he won't hear it.

I told him that we could play 9/8-8/7 and still got a no.

I'm sure he will accept this after he feels better and has been back playing for a bit. But for now I wanted to ask you all what would you offer if you knew 9-8 was not going to get it done?? Thanks! RS

If y'all have just broken even at 9-8, but now he won't even take 9-8/8-7, then he evidently wants a game where he's a lock.

If you feel that you can play even with him at 8-7, then you could offer it. But if you come off the 9-8, and lose, you'll be upset with yourself, and he'll not likely play you any other way from then on. Who knows?

~Doc

Jeff sparks · Oct 4, 2015

The next up is 9/8 on his break. 8/7 on your break.

Or play him even on his break. Give him 9/7 on yours.

Or 9/8 on his break. 10/8 on your break.

Once you let him go to 7 though, it's a river of no return, he ain't going back to 8!

All those games should be close to each other, I would prefer he stayed at 8 though, so 9/8 on his 10/8 on mine.

JMO

Jeff

Mkbtank · Oct 4, 2015

Best spot after 9-8?

Jeff sparks said:
The next up is 9/8 on his break. 8/7 on your break.

Or play him even on his break. Give him 9/7 on yours.

Or 9/8 on his break. 10/8 on your break.

Once you let him go to 7 though, it's a river of no return, he ain't going back to 8!

All those games should be close to each other, I would prefer he stayed at 8 though, so 9/8 on his 10/8 on mine.

JMO

Jeff

I agree, Jeff. I hate when someone goes to less than 8. I would rather play 10-8 than 8-7. But which is the better game? Thus, this thread.

Thanks Doc! You are right but I think I'm going to have to. Meh

Cory in dc · Oct 4, 2015

Mkbtank said:
I agree, Jeff. I hate when someone goes to less than 8. I would rather play 10-8 than 8-7. But which is the better game? Thus, this thread.

Thanks Doc! You are right but I think I'm going to have to. Meh

There's this chart: http://www.onepocket.org/handicaps.htm.

It puts 8-7 right in between 9-8 and 10-8. So technically, you're supposed to prefer giving 8-7.

However, those are just based on percentages. 8-7 is 53.3% vs. 46.7%. 10-8 is 62.5% vs. 37.5%.

I generally prefer 10-8 as well, if I'm giving out weight (this mostly involves opponents with partial blindness, shaking arm syndrome, or chronic selloutitis).

There are two reasons. First, if he makes 2 or 3 balls early, then 7 vs. 8 is a big difference. Second, with a short rack spot, he will never get down to a situation with just one ball remaining. I think that's a place where the better player has a larger edge, so I don't want to give that up. Also, needing a lower number can make an opponent more prone to just pushing the balls up table, which can make for a boring day.

Good luck!

Mkbtank · Oct 4, 2015

Best spot after 9-8?

Thanks Cory.

LSJohn · Oct 4, 2015

Mkbtank said:
So I play a local guy for 300 a game. (He will only bet a lot).

We played even several months ago and I won the last 4 sessions. Haven't seen him in a few months due to his work. We played again and he would not play even, so I offered 9-8.

Last week we played I won a couple games. Today we were even after 4 games and he quit, saying that he needs more weight. Of course I pointed out that we just broke even at 9-8, so it's a fair game, but he won't hear it.

I told him that we could play 9/8-8/7 and still got a no.

I'm sure he will accept this after he feels better and has been back playing for a bit. But for now I wanted to ask you all what would you offer if you knew 9-8 was not going to get it done??

Thanks!

RS

I'd try even/10-8. If he doesn't take that, you can try 9-8/10-8, but if he doesn't take that I'd wait him out. If he's let you get him this stuck he wants to play, so he'll be back. :heh

petie · Oct 5, 2015

I would never give a guy a short spot (less than 8) if his offense was equal to mine. I think Jeff is right. Once you give him 7 to whatever, he'll never go back. Try 8/8 but he gets all the breaks but start the negotiation at he gives you 9/8 and he gets all the breaks. Fall back to 8/8 and he gets the breaks. You have to change the perception or you'll just give balls until he wins. He has to think he's stealing or that if he asks for more weight, he will be laughed out of the pool hall. You could try 5 and stop or 4 and safe or 3 no count. Get creative.

petie · Oct 5, 2015

I'd love to see what Rodney, Hacker, Steve Lomako or Dr. Bill say about this.

stevelomako · Oct 5, 2015

Mkbtank said:
So I play a local guy for 300 a game. (He will only bet a lot).

We played even several months ago and I won the last 4 sessions. Haven't seen him in a few months due to his work. We played again and he would not play even, so I offered 9-8.

Last week we played I won a couple games. Today we were even after 4 games and he quit, saying that he needs more weight. Of course I pointed out that we just broke even at 9-8, so it's a fair game, but he won't hear it.

I told him that we could play 9/8-8/7 and still got a no.

I'm sure he will accept this after he feels better and has been back playing for a bit. But for now I wanted to ask you all what would you offer if you knew 9-8 was not going to get it done??

Thanks!

RS

I'd say to him "After you quit pouting and your eyes dry up you still get 9-8 and if I win I'll give you half your money back".

Seriously

Mkbtank · Oct 5, 2015

Best spot after 9-8?

Thanks John. And Petie. I agree with you both. Pete he asked for 9-7 or 8/7 and the breaks. That's not happening. I like 10-8 better or 9/8 and all the breaks. Preciate it!

stevelomako · Oct 5, 2015

stevelomako said:
I'd say to him "After you quit pouting and your eyes dry up you still get 9-8 and if I win I'll give you half your money back".

Seriously

Then I'd add "You have to quit lifting up your skirt and showing everybody your vagina in here".

Seriously :lol

stevelomako · Oct 5, 2015

Mkbtank said:
Thanks John. And Petie. I agree with you both. Pete he asked for 9-7 or 8/7 and the breaks. That's not happening. I like 10-8 better or 9/8 and all the breaks. Preciate it!

Looks like y'all ain't playing for a while then. Hims lookin for the nuts.

Mkbtank · Oct 5, 2015

Best spot after 9-8?

stevelomako said:
Looks like y'all ain't playing for a while then. Hims lookin for the nuts.

Yes I do believe you are right. In the last game I hit him with a Straightback full table draw shot to get position and bank a ball on the first diamond of his long rail to get out. I certainly was not a favorite to make it, but it fired in and that was it lol. I could almost see his heart leave his body

wincardona · Oct 5, 2015

Mkbtank said:
So I play a local guy for 300 a game. (He will only bet a lot).

We played even several months ago and I won the last 4 sessions. Haven't seen him in a few months due to his work. We played again and he would not play even, so I offered 9-8.

Last week we played I won a couple games. Today we were even after 4 games and he quit, saying that he needs more weight. Of course I pointed out that we just broke even at 9-8, so it's a fair game, but he won't hear it.

I told him that we could play 9/8-8/7 and still got a no.

I'm sure he will accept this after he feels better and has been back playing for a bit. But for now I wanted to ask you all what would you offer if you knew 9-8 was not going to get it done??

Thanks!

RS

Based off of how your post reads 9/8 is a tough game, agreed? If 9/8 is a tough game but you feel that you have a "hair" the best of it I wouldn't offer him any more than what you offered 9/8. ..8/7. Imo when two players are as close to one another in skill (9/8) it's harder going to 10/8 than it would be going to 8/7. I believe this based off of experience, not just an assumption. You offered him 9/8 one game 8/7 the next, stick with that offer and wait him out, I don't see why there should be a rush in giving him more. 10/8 is more than 8/7 when players are as close as you two seem to be.

Dr. Bill

LSJohn · Oct 5, 2015

stevelomako said:
Then I'd add "You have to quit lifting up your skirt and showing everybody your vagina in here".

Seriously :lol

As I understand it, Mitch has the guy stuck 3 Grand+. The guy is not a nit or a nut-hunter. He'd be crazy not to try to get an adjustment.

I don't think trying to insult/embarrass/anger him into playing is called for, and it's not Mitch's style anyway.

Mkbtank · Oct 5, 2015

Best spot after 9-8?

It is true that he is a good guy and a gentleman to gamble with. I don't blame him for wanting to adjust, and I am ok with that. I just don't want to get crazy lol.

Thanks DR Bill. Funny, Tom W said the exact same thing regarding 10-8/8-7. I guess I had better listen to you two veterans.

lll · Oct 5, 2015

mitch i remember freddie saying he hated giving a guy all the breaks
because of the pressure you are in EVERY game to turn the break around and finally gain the upper hand.
freddie preferred a ball spot than all the breaks if i remember correctly

wincardona · Oct 5, 2015

Mkbtank said:
It is true that he is a good guy and a gentleman to gamble with. I don't blame him for wanting to adjust, and I am ok with that. I just don't want to get crazy lol.

Thanks DR Bill. Funny, Tom W said the exact same thing regarding 10-8/8-7. I guess I had better listen to you two veterans.

I wouldn't feel that offering him 10/8 when you break and even when he breaks would be an uNair request. I would phrase it like this.. when I break I will give you two balls 10/8 and then the next game you have the break and we play even. The break is stronger than giving up 8/7 or possibly 10/8, emphasize that when you propose the 10/8 one game and he gets the break the next game. Sorta a play on words but a true statement
Put that offer on his plate, he may just bite, but you still need to play well to win.

Dr. Bill
.

LSJohn · Oct 5, 2015

lll said:
mitch i remember freddie saying he hated giving a guy all the breaks
because of the pressure you are in EVERY game to turn the break around and finally gain the upper hand.
freddie preferred a ball spot than all the breaks if i remember correctly

How good does he break?
How good are you in responding?
How many balls will he average running if your escape fails?
How much will the pressure of always having to respond to the break bother you?

I'm OK with giving up the break because all but number 2 favor me against anyone I'd be giving weight.

When you give ball(s) he always gets the advantage of them. Half of his breaks probably won't help him at all, and 10-20% of them will favor you.

(Yeah, I'm probably crazy to disagree with Freddie, but that's what I think, and remember I'm talking about playing guys weaker than me

)

Best spot after 9-8?

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