I've changed my direction on banking

and I"m excited! I"m throwing the spin banking out the window and starting fresh. After reading the banking guru's tell me what they do to be champions, I'm not stupid... they get to be champions because they're doing it right.

I dedicated a hour today to warming up and the next hour solid, playing short rack banks. I felt like a damn champion too at times Rocketing in the long rail banks.. ooooo eeeeee!

I handcuffed me to playing only a 1/2 tip of anything around center ball. I used to hate shooting straight back long rail banks, those were my tough shots. Tonight I welcomed them! I had a good practice too. Felt real good. I was off by a foot on many for awhile because of no english, but I started to get the feel after awhile.

The wei below, illustrates a tough shot for me. I just have a lot of issues with this one. Feel free to help me out on what you do. I have made up my mind that I will focus on banks and onepocket from now on. I really don't have hardly anyone to match up with at those games, but I'll work at it till I feel I can take a shot at the guys that are better then me. That damn 9 ball, I can't handle the stupid luck in that anymore

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1KWmM1PYlt1fWmM4fVtj1fbSW1kYlt1kWmc1kNfb1qATgDoesn't_matter_where_the_hell_it_is_either,_it_can_be_close_or_far_away,_the_only_time_I_have_a_shot,_is_when_it's_less_then_2_feet_from_the_rail&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

Greg.
Don't cut it. Aim straight ahead and a small amount of English will turn it.
Don't draw it. CB must go forward,
Try elevating the butt of your cue a little. striking down will help the English take.
Rod.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1KWmQ1PYlu1fWmQ4fSCn1fcAf1kYlu1kWub1kLrF1qATgDoesn%2527t_matter_where_the_hell_it_is_either,_it_can_be_close_or_far_away,_the_only_time_I_have_a_shot,_is_when_it%2527s_less_then_2_feet_from_the_rail&ZZ2uBOK@[/CUETABLE]

androd said:

Greg.
Don't cut it. Aim straight ahead and a small amount of English will turn it.
Don't draw it. CB must go forward,
Try elevating the butt of your cue a little. striking down will help the English take.
Rod.

Click to expand...

Thanks Rod.. I"ll give that a try. It's weird why I have so much problem with that. I'll pocket the ball, I'll jaw it all up down there, I'll miss by a foot.... and what's weird is, I don't have the same problem, if I moved the cueball the same distance straight over on the other side of the shot. It probably doesn't help that I'm only doing 1 of the 5 suggestions you made

PS.. that's weird, it finally did it to me. I noticed after posting that it butchered my post by oddly removing the [ /quote] at the end of your post. I just fixed it, but that's definitely a bug

greg this is a similar shot but goes against your new principles
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc4tnNmwD34[/ame]

CaliRed said:

PS.. that's weird, it finally did it to me. I noticed after posting that it butchered my post by oddly removing the [ /quote] at the end of your post. I just fixed it, but that's definitely a bug

Click to expand...

That happens to Arties computer on almost every post he quotes.
Rod.

i love this bank, it looks better when the CB is farther away from the long rail than the OB, its great to spin it in, its lots easier to make than it looks. there is a big area on the head rail the OB can hit and the spin on the OB will throw the it towards the pocket. the OB can be 2-3 " off the rail and the CB 5-6" off the rail and a tip of inside english will cause the OB to spin so when it hits the rail the OB will turn over and spin it right towards the pocket. For a good banks player this is a 80-90% shot if the balls are laying right and he has a feel for the table to know how much to spin the CB. I'm far from a great banks player and when I get the feel for it on a table its not even hard for me. I promis you can get the hang of it too real fast. Its a impressive looking shot that isnt as hard as it looks.


best
eric

androd said:

That happens to Arties computer on almost every post he quotes.
Rod.

Click to expand...

hehe.. well, it that particular case, I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions and blame it on the forum software

Amazing

Amazing

I am amazed at how little everyone seems to think of this bank shot. I always thought this shot was hard: at least the way it is shown in CaliRed's diagram. The guys that I play, outside of Piggy and Jet, make this shot an average of one out of five, and this is Chicago.

Beard

fred bentivegna said:

I am amazed at how little everyone seems to think of this bank shot. I always thought this shot was hard: at least the way it is shown in CaliRed's diagram. The guys that I play, outside of Piggy and Jet, make this shot an average of one out of five, and this is Chicago.

Beard

Click to expand...

Fred, you must be matching up well.
I was trying to be helpful.
You could chime in and correct us amateurs.
Rod.

CaliRed said:

The wei below, illustrates a tough shot for me.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1KWmM1PYlt1fWmM4fVtj1fbSW1kYlt1kWmc1kNfb1qATgDoesn't_matter_where_the_hell_it_is_either,_it_can_be_close_or_far_away,_the_only_time_I_have_a_shot,_is_when_it's_less_then_2_feet_from_the_rail&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

Click to expand...

Greg,

That is a tough f@@kin' shot for anybody, not just you. Here's how I used to practice it. After shooting this about 500 times your bank is a piece of cake . Freeze the cueball to the rail and put the object ball 1 ball width off the rail at that diamond.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1KXsj1PbRI@[/CUETABLE]

Solution. (keep away from AZ forum)

Solution. (keep away from AZ forum)

androd said:

Fred, you must be matching up well.
I was trying to be helpful.
You could chime in and correct us amateurs.
Rod.

Click to expand...

Eddie Taylor/Nicky Vach shot -- easier variations


A big key is for the object ball to not be turning as it approaches the cushion. You want the english to act on the object ball only off of the cushion. The english is said to be "waiting" until it hits the cushion. Then because it takes such a severe approach to the cushion (it goes in at a straight angle), it takes a straight path back to the pocket. If the o.b hits the cushion at an angle that favors the lengthening of the bank (if you cut the o.b too much), what usually happens is the english overworks the shot and runs long into the long rail.
One way to keep the o.b from turning too much, and then running long to the pocket, would be to use no wrist or hand squeeze at the end. Keep the grip hand relatively stiff because you want the cueball skidding into the o.b, not turning.
Use a tip or so of outside english of course, amount depending on the speed you hit it.

Beard

well, I 'm glad to hear some of you guys chime in and say, it is a f&$king tough shot I know it's difficult, even for champions, it's just they come a lot closer or make it a lot more then us hacks. That's all I want to do, is get a lot closer and make a few

I have problems even when it's not as much cut, so that whole area of that kind of banks, presents me with problems. So that illustration was more for the type of shot, rather then that exact shot.

I need to understand and digest what you guys are saying about the science behind it.

I am tired of just "shooting" to make the ball. That's only taken me so far in my pool life and I don't get to play hours and hours anymore. That might have been great for the 4 or 5 years where I played all the time. Then I take 12 or so years off and now I get in 6 hours a week, so that approach isn't going to work anymore.

Since my time of playing is so limited... I want to get some enjoyment and some satisfaction out of it. Shooting the balls into the rail ain't gonna cut it I need to start shooting smarter and with a purpose and understanding why things happen the way they do, in order to improve.

My first big step, is to give up the old way and start trying to learn how to bank right. It can't be boring, where I sit and line up shots and shoot the same thing over and over, if you only get 6 hours... you want to run some balls, get a hot streak going.

Yesterday, I had a high run of 5 and it felt great. I then turned around and missed 4 or 5 in a row too, but I was stringing 1, 2 and 3's together every now and then too.

So I appreciate you guys lending me your knowledge, so that I may improve on some of the shots I suck with Who knows, someone else may learn something too.

Tomorrow, I am going to attack it again. I've got a grip and stroke that I like right now and I"m staying with it. So now I can concentrate on everything else.

CaliRed said:

and I"m excited! I"m throwing the spin banking out the window and starting fresh. After reading the banking guru's tell me what they do to be champions, I'm not stupid... they get to be champions because they're doing it right.

I dedicated a hour today to warming up and the next hour solid, playing short rack banks. I felt like a damn champion too at times Rocketing in the long rail banks.. ooooo eeeeee!

I handcuffed me to playing only a 1/2 tip of anything around center ball. I used to hate shooting straight back long rail banks, those were my tough shots. Tonight I welcomed them! I had a good practice too. Felt real good. I was off by a foot on many for awhile because of no english, but I started to get the feel after awhile.

The wei below, illustrates a tough shot for me. I just have a lot of issues with this one. Feel free to help me out on what you do. I have made up my mind that I will focus on banks and onepocket from now on. I really don't have hardly anyone to match up with at those games, but I'll work at it till I feel I can take a shot at the guys that are better then me. That damn 9 ball, I can't handle the stupid luck in that anymore

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1KWmM1PYlt1fWmM4fVtj1fbSW1kYlt1kWmc1kNfb1qATgDoesn't_matter_where_the_hell_it_is_either,_it_can_be_close_or_far_away,_the_only_time_I_have_a_shot,_is_when_it's_less_then_2_feet_from_the_rail&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

Click to expand...

Howdy good Red. I have been studying this shot you have put up, for a while now.
I guess there's more than one way to make It,but If I had to set this shot up and see how many times I could make It..say out of ten times. I would shoot It with low right and draw the cue ball. Normally I don't draw the cueball If I don't have to but with this shot I think that's the best way to make It alot.
To me..I think the draw will keep It from turning to much,and make the shot more reliable. Try that with It Red and see If that doesn't help. Bet you start
zingin em right In. Low right with draw and fire It.Don't baby It. Good luck bud.
John B.

John Brumback said:

Howdy good Red. I have been studying this shot you have put up, for a while now.
I guess there's more than one way to make It,but If I had to set this shot up and see how many times I could make It..say out of ten times. I would shoot It with low right and draw the cue ball. Normally I don't draw the cueball If I don't have to but with this shot I think that's the best way to make It alot.
To me..I think the draw will keep It from turning to much,and make the shot more reliable. Try that with It Red and see If that doesn't help. Bet you start
zingin em right In. Low right with draw and fire It.Don't baby It. Good luck bud.
John B.

Click to expand...

John i'm not regarded as a bank pool expert, but I can see the reason you shoot this shot the way you described. With this type of hit, speed and a slight turn will give you the consistency needed to shoot this shot with confidence. Changing speeds with this bank will be difficult to control the amount of english needed to make it. This bank hit with a soft speed is a very difficult shot, imo. The speed of the bank will enable you to slightly miss hit the cue ball giving you a better chance of pocketing it. So the speed with this bank is the key to making it.

By drawing the cue ball you will, in a sense put a govenor, if you will, on not over turning the bank. Low english minimizes one's ability to turn banks, and that's a key to making this bank.

Billy I.

wincardona said:

John i'm not regarded as a bank pool expert, but I can see the reason you shoot this shot the way you described. With this type of hit, speed and a slight turn will give you the consistency needed to shoot this shot with confidence. Changing speeds with this bank will be difficult to control the amount of english needed to make it. This bank hit with a soft speed is a very difficult shot, imo. The speed of the bank will enable you to slightly miss hit the cue ball giving you a better chance of pocketing it. So the speed with this bank is the key to making it.

By drawing the cue ball you will, in a sense put a govenor, if you will, on not over turning the bank. Low english minimizes one's ability to turn banks, and that's a key to making this bank.

Billy I.

Click to expand...

Hey! That's what I was trying to say!! You laid It down perfect.
Yep speed Is key with this shot.Man you nailed It. It would be a whole nother story If It was your last ball. Yes that shot Is very difficult to hit easy or slow.That's why I said If I had to make It the most out of 10, I would fire It like I said.John B.

John Brumback said:

Hey! That's what I was trying to say!! You laid It down perfect.
Yep speed Is key with this shot.Man you nailed It. It would be a whole nother story If It was your last ball. Yes that shot Is very difficult to hit easy or slow.That's why I said If I had to make It the most out of 10, I would fire It like I said.John B.

Click to expand...

This would be tough to play if it was your last ball playing for one each. But if you developed the feel for this hit, go for it, that's all I can say.

If this bank came up playing one pocket and I had ball running potential i'm going again. But I wouldn't advise a player that wasn't comfortable with the hit to go. Another thing to consider when shooting this shot is how many balls can I get if I make it? I wouldn't shoot this shot if the reward wasn't justifiable. If I couldn't do some damage, than i'm rolling it and playing cue ball.

Billy I.

Red,

A good way to practice this type of bank is to take a page from the 3 cushion book.

Several 3C systems are based on how you strike the cue ball. By that it means 1 tip of side English, 1 and 1/2 tips of side English (no top or Bottom). Set up the shot, move over 1 tip of English and observe the result. Keep the speed constant and try more or less side. Watch the result. You will soon see what you can and can not do with the object ball.

Then add either top or bottom and watch the result. For Bank pool finding a single way to make the bank is probably OK. For one pocket you really need to be able to draw or follow the cue ball at the same time so you need to learn how to do that as well as make the bank.

Bill Stroud

bstroud said:

Red,

A good way to practice this type of bank is to take a page from the 3 cushion book.

Several 3C systems are based on how you strike the cue ball. By that it means 1 tip of side English, 1 and 1/2 tips of side English (no top or Bottom). Set up the shot, move over 1 tip of English and observe the result. Keep the speed constant and try more or less side. Watch the result. You will soon see what you can and can not do with the object ball.

Then add either top or bottom and watch the result. For Bank pool finding a single way to make the bank is probably OK. For one pocket you really need to be able to draw or follow the cue ball at the same time so you need to learn how to do that as well as make the bank.
Bill Stroud

Click to expand...

Bill,

I think one of the biggest problems I have with this bank, is where to hit the bottom rail. When you aim around the 1st arrow, it can get right in the funny area, where your bank goes to hell and it isn't coming straight back like you wanted it to

Where are you guys aiming at the bottom rail? How many inches away from the tip of the point, that the red arrow is pointing .... how many inches away from that point, would you consider a safe point to hit.. basically speaking? We all know that when you get right in that funny area, all kinds of funny things can happen, so I was curious how many inches away from that point that the red arrow is pointing to..... is safe from then on?

That would probably help me as a good starting point. I guess with my aim being as bad as it is.... whenever I aim right around those pockets, I have bad things happen a lot of time. I guess because a inch or 1/2 inch in that area can make a big difference, that's why I have problems.

I try to stay away from that grey area, by imparting more english, which means that I can hit farther (safer) away from the pocket and make up for it with english.

I want to get away from my english banks and get more on solid ground with the no english banks unless needed.

(Note: the arrows are just reference ones.. obviously it all depends on the way the shot is setup)

bstroud said:

Red,

A good way to practice this type of bank is to take a page from the 3 cushion book.

Several 3C systems are based on how you strike the cue ball. By that it means 1 tip of side English, 1 and 1/2 tips of side English (no top or Bottom). Set up the shot, move over 1 tip of English and observe the result. Keep the speed constant and try more or less side. Watch the result. You will soon see what you can and can not do with the object ball.

Then add either top or bottom and watch the result. For Bank pool finding a single way to make the bank is probably OK. For one pocket you really need to be able to draw or follow the cue ball at the same time so you need to learn how to do that as well as make the bank.

Bill Stroud

Click to expand...

Those are excellent points that you suggested. Not only are you educating yourself on making the bank but how to control the cue ball and make the bank when necessary.

Billy I.

Red,

The method I am suggesting allows you to hit the same place almost everytime. The amount of side English you choose to use will determine how much you throw the object ball.

You should just hit the object ball straight on with the amount of side appropriate for the distance the object ball is from the side rail. The further the object ball is from the side rail the more side required to bring it back.

This shot is easier to do than explain how to do it.

The main Idea is to eliminate as many variables as possible. Speed IS critical but once you have the right speed the amount of throw with this method is very predictable.

A few practice shots will show you the limits of the throw.

Bill Stroud