luckybreaky
Verified Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 92
AFter EFren whos next in line CLiff Joyner or ...???
Whos the Second Best One HOLER??
- Thread starter luckybreaky
- Start date
BackPocket9Ball
Verified Member
Cliff or Scott. Gabe is a contender as well. When Shannon is playing consistently, him too. Larry Nevel and Corey Deuel (when he chooses to play the game) aren't far behind.
This assessment is for this very moment -- five years ago, I think you could include Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, and Jose Parica as contenders for second best and remove Scott, Gabe, Corey, and Larry.
Ten years ago opens up a whole separate discussion.
My point is that I don't think there is a clear-cut "second best"
This assessment is for this very moment -- five years ago, I think you could include Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, and Jose Parica as contenders for second best and remove Scott, Gabe, Corey, and Larry.
Ten years ago opens up a whole separate discussion.
My point is that I don't think there is a clear-cut "second best"
One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member
After Efren
After Efren
BackPocket, I have seen all of the above mentioned play many times, and I just slightly disagree with you....I think when he's on his game, Cliff is the solid 2nd best one pocket player in the world....After Cliff, I think it's a toss-up between Scott Frost, Larry Nevel, Gabe Owen, Shannon, and Corey - I don't think there's a clear favorite between these 5 players - and very close behind this group, and they don't have to lose to any of them either, is Jeremy Jones, Jose Parica, and Alex P. - and behind these three, for my last group I'd put guys like James Walden, Tony Chohan, Billy Palmer, Hillbilly, Jerry Slivka-(many don't know how jam-up he plays) and Marco Marquez. Ghost
After Efren
BackPocket9Ball said:
BackPocket, I have seen all of the above mentioned play many times, and I just slightly disagree with you....I think when he's on his game, Cliff is the solid 2nd best one pocket player in the world....After Cliff, I think it's a toss-up between Scott Frost, Larry Nevel, Gabe Owen, Shannon, and Corey - I don't think there's a clear favorite between these 5 players - and very close behind this group, and they don't have to lose to any of them either, is Jeremy Jones, Jose Parica, and Alex P. - and behind these three, for my last group I'd put guys like James Walden, Tony Chohan, Billy Palmer, Hillbilly, Jerry Slivka-(many don't know how jam-up he plays) and Marco Marquez. Ghost
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Cal
Verified Member
Top 5 (Tournment)
Top 5 (Tournment)
#1. Efren #2, Cliff #3.Parica #4 Shannon #5,Alex Creeping steady up (Ike) (For the money) #1 Efren #2 Cliff #3. Ike #4. Parica #5 James Walden
Top 5 (Tournment)
#1. Efren #2, Cliff #3.Parica #4 Shannon #5,Alex Creeping steady up (Ike) (For the money) #1 Efren #2 Cliff #3. Ike #4. Parica #5 James Walden
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BackPocket9Ball
Verified Member
Cal:
Ike is a GREAT player, and I highly respect his game. But he's on the downswing, not the upswing. He's at least in his mid 50s. Even though he's placing in a lot more tournaments, his best years are behind him.
One Pocket Ghost:
I agree with you. Also, I know how strong Slivka plays. I grew up in PA, and a friend of mine lived with Slivka for two years in the mid 90s. He had potential to be a top pro, but seemingly not discipline.
Ike is a GREAT player, and I highly respect his game. But he's on the downswing, not the upswing. He's at least in his mid 50s. Even though he's placing in a lot more tournaments, his best years are behind him.
One Pocket Ghost:
I agree with you. Also, I know how strong Slivka plays. I grew up in PA, and a friend of mine lived with Slivka for two years in the mid 90s. He had potential to be a top pro, but seemingly not discipline.
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Ike
Ike
It's not close. Ike is playing better than he ever played in his life. Five years ago he was just a top shortstop.
I kind of like Cliff as number two. His attitude, imagination, and gunfighting mentality is excellent. I just wish he wouldnt faint so badly every time he plays Efren. If I was him, I would follow Efren around the country and play him every chance I had, until I got rid of the "dog" that was following me around. However, I would try to play as low as possible. A technique I tried with Artie, but he was too smart for me. As soon as I stopped dogging it against him, he would either stop playing me, or make me bet too high. When I got to playing really good, he wouldnt play but instead would steer me into action and take a piece. When I came back down to earth and my game tapered down, it was then when he would let me play cheap and rob me.
Scott Frost will probably be number 2 or number 1 soon. I love his attitude. He's as cocky as a fighter pilot. He and I got into a heated "wolfing" session at the BCA tourney in Vegas. He held up against my "old-school" pool tirades very well. I was very impressed. (I still believe he would have spent at least one year being broke if he hung in Bensingers around me and Artie, before he could hold his own.)
the Beard
Ike
It's not close. Ike is playing better than he ever played in his life. Five years ago he was just a top shortstop.
I kind of like Cliff as number two. His attitude, imagination, and gunfighting mentality is excellent. I just wish he wouldnt faint so badly every time he plays Efren. If I was him, I would follow Efren around the country and play him every chance I had, until I got rid of the "dog" that was following me around. However, I would try to play as low as possible. A technique I tried with Artie, but he was too smart for me. As soon as I stopped dogging it against him, he would either stop playing me, or make me bet too high. When I got to playing really good, he wouldnt play but instead would steer me into action and take a piece. When I came back down to earth and my game tapered down, it was then when he would let me play cheap and rob me.
Scott Frost will probably be number 2 or number 1 soon. I love his attitude. He's as cocky as a fighter pilot. He and I got into a heated "wolfing" session at the BCA tourney in Vegas. He held up against my "old-school" pool tirades very well. I was very impressed. (I still believe he would have spent at least one year being broke if he hung in Bensingers around me and Artie, before he could hold his own.)
the Beard
Whenever James Walden is in town, everyone seems to think that he plays stronger than Cliff Joyner... or maybe I'm thinking of C.J. Wiley...
There seems to be some strong players in this area (Dallas/Fort Worth). Although I wouldn't rank them at top pro level, Robert Newkirk, Joey Barnes, and Joe Salazar are considered good players in this area...
There seems to be some strong players in this area (Dallas/Fort Worth). Although I wouldn't rank them at top pro level, Robert Newkirk, Joey Barnes, and Joe Salazar are considered good players in this area...
Voodoo Daddy
Verified Member
Freddy...
Freddy...
Whats your opinion on Jack Cooney's game? If you choose to PM that I understand cause I dont wanna cause no grief!!!
Freddy...
Whats your opinion on Jack Cooney's game? If you choose to PM that I understand cause I dont wanna cause no grief!!!
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Cooney
Cooney
Jack played about a ball under the monsters. However, for really big money most players played a ball under him in the tremble and shake department. In the hustle and smarts, his only equal was Artie Bodendorfer.
the Beard
Cooney
Voodoo Daddy said:Whats your opinion on Jack Cooney's game? If you choose to PM that I understand cause I dont wanna cause no grief!!!
Jack played about a ball under the monsters. However, for really big money most players played a ball under him in the tremble and shake department. In the hustle and smarts, his only equal was Artie Bodendorfer.
the Beard
Grady
Verified Member
Dallas and Ike
Dallas and Ike
There's nobody in Dallas that can come close to beating Cliff playing even One Pocket. Ike is 44 years old.
Dallas and Ike
There's nobody in Dallas that can come close to beating Cliff playing even One Pocket. Ike is 44 years old.
Grady
Verified Member
Sorry I made a booboo
Sorry I made a booboo
Cliff is 44 and Ike, I think is 52.
Sorry I made a booboo
Cliff is 44 and Ike, I think is 52.
My Viewpoint Top One Pocket Players
My Viewpoint Top One Pocket Players
As pool players like all top athletes have peaks and valleys in their game. We all have seen players that shouldn't win in our minds but we see them do it. They peaked when the other wasn't.
Comparing them at their top level, you have to go with Efren as number one. I have watched Cliff way too much and have determined that his top level of play is nearly equal. He seems to play a bit too long sometimes which can take away from his play. James Walden isn't in the same realm (IMHO) but could be close.
I have watched "San Francisco Jack" Cooney win more $$$ and you never seem to know what his top level really is. He has an asset that others do not. His wife who can clock action as good as any. She was always in the background.
Last year in Louisville, David Matlock played fabulous. He has beaten most of the Phillipine players in tournaments at one time or another. He has as much raw talent on big tables as anybody (ask Buddy Hall). He seems to have a wider range of peaks and valleys. He does have a long although mostly regional history.
When Allen Hopkins was at his peak as a 14.1 champion, he could have played with most anybody. I put Nick Varner in a similar spot.
When Larry Nevel has his top game, I have watched him beat Gabe and Cliff
quite handily in tournaments. He or any of the other top young players don't nave the long track record to put them in a permenant category. btw Jesse Bowman is a comer. Too many he has already arrived.
You can't leave out the Professor Grady who really studied the game and is one of the most knowledgeable one pocket players ever. Good skills and great knowledge can beat great skills and average knowledge.
Shorty Johnson played a great game in his prime. Weenie Beenie may not make the short list but deserves an honorable mention.
I have only left off a million or so players. For that I apologize.
My Viewpoint Top One Pocket Players
As pool players like all top athletes have peaks and valleys in their game. We all have seen players that shouldn't win in our minds but we see them do it. They peaked when the other wasn't.
Comparing them at their top level, you have to go with Efren as number one. I have watched Cliff way too much and have determined that his top level of play is nearly equal. He seems to play a bit too long sometimes which can take away from his play. James Walden isn't in the same realm (IMHO) but could be close.
I have watched "San Francisco Jack" Cooney win more $$$ and you never seem to know what his top level really is. He has an asset that others do not. His wife who can clock action as good as any. She was always in the background.
Last year in Louisville, David Matlock played fabulous. He has beaten most of the Phillipine players in tournaments at one time or another. He has as much raw talent on big tables as anybody (ask Buddy Hall). He seems to have a wider range of peaks and valleys. He does have a long although mostly regional history.
When Allen Hopkins was at his peak as a 14.1 champion, he could have played with most anybody. I put Nick Varner in a similar spot.
When Larry Nevel has his top game, I have watched him beat Gabe and Cliff
quite handily in tournaments. He or any of the other top young players don't nave the long track record to put them in a permenant category. btw Jesse Bowman is a comer. Too many he has already arrived.
You can't leave out the Professor Grady who really studied the game and is one of the most knowledgeable one pocket players ever. Good skills and great knowledge can beat great skills and average knowledge.
Shorty Johnson played a great game in his prime. Weenie Beenie may not make the short list but deserves an honorable mention.
I have only left off a million or so players. For that I apologize.
A few years ago, before he moved to the South, I watched John Schmidt and Cliff match up at Hard Times on a Sunday night. "Victorville" John, as he was known then, was still in the Sunday tournament and Cliff was warming up on table 6. Cliff was unbelievable in his warm up making incredible shot after shot and doing things I don''t believe I had seen before. John finally won the tournament and he and Cliff began their race. Now John had been learning 1 Pocket from Jack Cooney the past few months and paying dearly for the lessons. John was getting 10/8 and proceeded to blow Cliff away. The way the games went John could have been giving 10/8. I don't know if John having been playing 9 ball all day had just gotten into a special groove or what but having watched Cliff warming up I was dumbfounded by the final results.
A old timer by the name of "Cowboy" Bobby Brown was holding the $ and I am sorry to report that "Cowboy" passed away a month ago in case anyone here knew of him.
A old timer by the name of "Cowboy" Bobby Brown was holding the $ and I am sorry to report that "Cowboy" passed away a month ago in case anyone here knew of him.
roo7227
Verified Member
I think you have to give it to Cliff..luckybreaky said:
IMO, the next level includes Scott Frost, Gabe Owen, and Jeremy Jones.. With Jones being the closest to the first 2..
Jones is, IMO, the best barbox player, in the world, right now.. And I would say he is tops in all forms of bank pool (especially full rack), right now..
I1PL
Verified Member
Tcho
Tcho
Will Tony Chohan be the best 1P player to have ever lived?
http://www.mgtmotorsports.com/Feedback/showthread.php?t=400
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Tcho
Will Tony Chohan be the best 1P player to have ever lived?
http://www.mgtmotorsports.com/Feedback/showthread.php?t=400
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