Opinion on sportsmanship

bernie p · Oct 1, 2009

Recently, I'm playing in a monthly 1p match with approx 12 players, race to 2, kinda social tourney. ($35.00 entry, approx $200 to the winner).

There are no balls made and we both owe 1 foul, with a coin over both pockets.

So I am at the table having ran 3 balls with the remaining 6 that I need within relatively easy range.

Just before I get down to shoot my 4th ball my opponent approaches the table, proceeds to grab one of the three balls in the ball return and steps back from the table.

Having played this opponent many times before, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a "move" on his part, especially with him sensing that an apparent "9 n' out" is imminent.

At this point I consider just ignoring his antics and keep shooting, but I actually stop shooting and ask him what he was doing. He explains that I owe a ball and he was just "reminding" himself of the need to spot it.

I politely explain to him that when a player is at the table, that he should not even approach the table until his opponent has finished shooting. He disagrees, saying that he should be able to pick up that ball any time.

I tell him that if he were playing at the DCC for example, that he would not be allowed to do that and even though he is not specifically violating any written rule, he is showing extreme bad sportsmanship.

So......tell me....is there anyone who feels that this is not a "move"?.

Thanks.

Bernie P.

1on1pooltournys · Oct 1, 2009

bernie p said:
Recently, I'm playing in a monthly 1p match with approx 12 players, race to 2, kinda social tourney. ($35.00 entry, approx $200 to the winner).

My opponent has committed a foul and has left the table with a coin duly placed by his pocket.

So I am at the table having ran 3 balls with the remaining 5 that I need within relatively easy range.

Just before I get down to shoot my 4th ball my opponent approaches the table, proceeds to grab one of the three balls in the ball return and steps back from the table.

Having played this opponent many times before, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a "move" on his part, especially with him sensing that an apparent "8 n' out" is imminent.

At this point I consider just ignoring his antics and keep shooting, but I actually stop shooting and ask him what he was doing. He explains that he owes a ball and was just "reminding" himself of the need to spot it.

I politely explain to him that when a player is at the table, that he should not even approach the table until his opponent has finished shooting. He disagrees, saying that he should be able to pick up that ball any time.

I tell him that if he were playing at the DCC for example, that he would not be allowed to do that and even though he is not specifically violating any written rule, he is showing extreme bad sportsmanship.

So......tell me....is there anyone who feels that this is not a "move"?.

Thanks.

Bernie P.

Could be, but doesn't have to be. I have did it before when I didn't have a coin. I would get the ball and put it in my back pocket. I for sure didn't do it as a move. But of course I was playing somebody I was comfortable with. Probably wouldn't do it gambling with somebody I didn't know.

androd · Oct 1, 2009

bernie p said:
My opponent has committed a foul and has left the table with a coin duly placed by his pocket.

So I am at the table having ran 3 balls with the remaining 5 that I need within relatively easy range.

Just before I get down to shoot my 4th ball my opponent approaches the table, proceeds to grab one of the three balls in the ball return and steps back from the table.

He explains that he owes a ball and was just "reminding" himself of the need to spot it.

Thanks.

Bernie P.

Bernie, why would he spot one of your balls ?
Rod.

vapros · Oct 1, 2009

You're telling us he picked up one of your balls??? What the hell was he going to do with it? I know some people who would get mighty excited about such as that.

bernie p · Oct 1, 2009

androd said:
Bernie, why would he spot one of your balls ?
Rod.

Rod, my mistake.

Sorry, I incorrectly conveyed the details.

I forgot to mention that I was also on one foul and he was picking it up to "remind" himself that I owed a ball.

Thanks.

P.S. I've edited the original post so that it reads correctly.

CaliRed · Oct 1, 2009

1st of all, he shouldn't be anywhere near the table when your shooting.

2nd of all, he shouldn't be touching your balls (no sexual overtones intended)

3rd of all, it's your responsiblity to spot 1 of YOUR balls when your done shooting. If you don't, then he can certainly remind you too, WHEN your done with your inning.

I'd make sure he understood that behavior is not acceptable, from that point on, with you anyways.

bernie p · Oct 2, 2009

CaliRed said:
1st of all, he shouldn't be anywhere near the table when your shooting.

2nd of all, he shouldn't be touching your balls (no sexual overtones intended)

3rd of all, it's your responsiblity to spot 1 of YOUR balls when your done shooting. If you don't, then he can certainly remind you too, WHEN your done with your inning.

I'd make sure he understood that behavior is not acceptable, from that point on, with you anyways.

CaliRed,

Agreed.

Needless to say, I no longer gamble with this guy, and it's too bad because he plays jam-up 1P and I need to push myself against better players.....but that garbage I don't need.

Thanks for the input.

Bernie P.

SJDinPHX · Oct 2, 2009

None Better !

None Better !

For those who may not know Bernie real well, he is a very capable competitor, He is always a perfect gentleman, and a good sport.

Its too bad some player's feel the need to use those tactics against someone whose well known for those qualities. Or anyone else for that matter.

I'm pretty sure I know who the offender was, and scarceness of good match-ups aside...you don't need that crap.

Dick

PS. Bernie, are you planning on DCC again next year? Not that far away. Hope to see you there, and give your lady my best. Hope all is well with you guy's.

chicagomike · Oct 2, 2009

Sounds to me like a move...especially given the fact that the additional 6 balls were easy to run out. If that was the case there would be no need to grab a ball as a reminder to spot, since it would not need to be spotted after the run was complete and the game was won by you.

I have taken the opponent's ball out to be spotted if it is a situation where he follows the q-ball in after the shot to avoid losing, or after the run is completed by the opponent. Then I can spot it while he is removing balls from pockets or the trap...just a little time saver.

If he ever objected I would leave the balls alone and let him do the spotting....by the way is there any official rule as to who should spot the owed ball?

demonrho · Oct 2, 2009

bernie p said:
..Just before I get down to shoot my 4th ball my opponent approaches the table, proceeds to grab one of the three balls in the ball return and steps back from the table...

You could do what some of the guys used to do at South Bay Billiards in LA when playing 1P. Whenever they'd make a ball they'd immediately snatch it up and put it in an extra ball tray or even a hat they'd keep by their cue case and then proceed to shoot the next shot. If some stray hand even came near their precious horde of balls they'd snatch up a house stick and give that stray hand enough of a healthy smack across its knuckles as to give its owner second thoughts as to ever think of trying that move again.

One pocket Smitty · Oct 2, 2009

I think CaliRed said what needed to be said on this matter. Very well put. Red.===Smitty

androd · Oct 2, 2009

bernie p said:
Rod, my mistake.

Sorry, I incorrectly conveyed the details.

I forgot to mention that I was also on one foul and he was picking it up to "remind" himself that I owed a ball.

Thanks.

P.S. I've edited the original post so that it reads correctly.

Bernie, If that's the case it shouldn't be a problem, Tell him if he forgets to spot it, it's loss of game. Continue your run out and don't let minor stuff like this bother you. The world is full of guys like this, if you don't pay attention to their stuff you'll soon not notice it at all. The guys that do this kind of stuff are the ones most bothered by it. I always play, pay what you owe but never put a coin on the table. Sometimes after their inning the spot ball may be in my way, if they don't spot it, I shoot and after my inning I tell them, "by the way you still owe one." If the spoting ball gives me a shot I remind them at the proper time. You'll learn to remember the shot they scratched, because these kind of guys'll want to argue.
Rod. < This way is a small advantage over sleepers, especially if they don't remember so well.
PS; There's a lot of mental stuff involved in one-pocket. Good luck with your game.

bernie p · Oct 2, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
For those who may not know Bernie real well, he is a very capable competitor, He is always a perfect gentleman, and a good sport.

Its too bad some player's feel the need to use those tactics against someone whose well known for those qualities. Or anyone else for that matter.

I'm pretty sure I know who the offender was, and scarceness of good match-ups aside...you don't need that crap.

Dick

PS. Bernie, are you planning on DCC again next year? Not that far away. Hope to see you there, and give your lady my best. Hope all is well with you guy's.

Dick,

Thanks for the compliment.

Regarding DCC, yes I was planning on making the annual IP pilgrimage to Mecca, but unfortunately current circumstances may trump that.

....but hey....ya' just never know....life has a way of surprising you sometimes.

Thanks.

Bernie P.

SJDinPHX · Oct 2, 2009

androd said:
Bernie, If that's the case it shouldn't be a problem, Tell him if he forgets to spot it, it's loss of game. Continue your run out and don't let minor stuff like this bother you. The world is full of guys like this, if you don't pay attention to their stuff you'll soon not notice it at all. The guys that do this kind of stuff are the ones most bothered by it. I always play, pay what you owe but never put a coin on the table. Sometimes after their inning the spot ball may be in my way, if they don't spot it, I shoot and after my inning I tell them, "by the way you still owe one." If the spoting ball gives me a shot I remind them at the proper time. You'll learn to remember the shot they scratched, because these kind of guys'll want to argue.
Rod. < This way is a small advantage over sleepers, especially if they don't remember so well.
PS; There's a lot of mental stuff involved in one-pocket. Good luck with your game.

Bernie,

Let me add, Rod is old school, as I am. The things we had to deal with were really quite different than the "fair play" that seems to be prevailent today. You learned to become "shark-proof, or you didn't survive.

"Everyone" seemed to accept that "everyone else"...backer's or partner's included, were moving and sharking. Charging the table, while you were shooting was a common thing, as was making idle threats. (mostly by sore loser's)
Some of these character's would do "anything" to win..short of breaking a cue stick over your head. Some might even go "that" extra mile..really had to watch those guy's..

Modern day tournaments have done a lot to eliminate MOST of the moving and sharking, by setting up the handshake, sitting down between shots, and encouraging good sportsmanship. And thats a good thing.

Much better than being prepared to duck, as you were trying to shoot the game ball in, for all the cash..

bernie p · Oct 2, 2009

androd said:
Bernie, If that's the case it shouldn't be a problem, Tell him if he forgets to spot it, it's loss of game. Continue your run out and don't let minor stuff like this bother you. The world is full of guys like this, if you don't pay attention to their stuff you'll soon not notice it at all. The guys that do this kind of stuff are the ones most bothered by it. I always play, pay what you owe but never put a coin on the table. Sometimes after their inning the spot ball may be in my way, if they don't spot it, I shoot and after my inning I tell them, "by the way you still owe one." If the spoting ball gives me a shot I remind them at the proper time. You'll learn to remember the shot they scratched, because these kind of guys'll want to argue.
Rod. < This way is a small advantage over sleepers, especially if they don't remember so well.
PS; There's a lot of mental stuff involved in one-pocket. Good luck with your game.

Rod,

I appreciate the comment. I like your point on leveraging the timing of the ball to be spotted.

Regarding the issue of ignoring an opponent's "move" or calling them on it.....I agree with you in general, that you just have to grow thick skinned enough to fade it.

Interesting though, on many occasions when an opponent attempts a "move", I've taken the time to just to stop playing and simply tell them that does'nt work with me.

In every instance the opponent is actually somewhat embarrased by the call out, as generally someone watching the game has also witnessed it.

I believe, psychologically, that it completely negates the move and has the opposite effect of taking my opponent out of their game.

Thanks.

Bernie P.

fred bentivegna · Oct 2, 2009

Certainly was different

Certainly was different

SJDinPHX said:
Bernie,

Let me add, Rod is old school, as I am. The things we had to deal with were really quite different than the "fair play" that seems to be prevailent today. You learned to become "shark-proof, or you didn't survive.

"Everyone" seemed to accept that "everyone else"...backer's or partner's included, were moving and sharking. Charging the table, while you were shooting was a common thing, as was making idle threats. (mostly by sore loser's)
Some of these character's would do "anything" to win..short of breaking a cue stick over your head. Some might even go "that" extra mile..really had to watch those guy's..

Modern day tournaments have done a lot to eliminate MOST of the moving and sharking, by setting up the handshake, sitting down between shots, and encouraging good sportsmanship. And thats a good thing.

Much better than being prepared to duck, as you were trying to shoot the game ball in, for all the cash..

You're right on, San. These youngsters aint got a clue has to what we had to fade to win. I kinda miss it. I was in a tough bar once, the old Mouse Trap, in Waukegan in the northern IL. suburbs, shooting at the eight ball, and the tush-hog was whispering in my ear to miss it or else. He was even tactful enough to suggest that since it was kind of a tough shot I could miss it and wouldnt even look bad. I was in a very bad positon because where I was shooting from was directly in front of the Hog sitting on the bar stool. Matter of fact, my ass was in contact with his knee. I kept stroking and stroking, and sweating, deciding what to do when my backer yelled out, "Gun it in, Fred!" I fired it in, then hunched my shoulders and flinched, but the tush went after my backer instead and knocked him out cold. About 4 of them grabbed me and told me not to jump in. Yeah, sure. Later, I drove my horse to the hospital, he had been bopped so hard that he had tempory amnesia.

Beard
I never played fair

Skin · Oct 2, 2009

Bernie, I watched some of the last 1p tournament from Kolby's and saw a couple of your matches. You have a good game. I wish mine was that solid.

In my opinion, the guy was sharking you. I hope you still ran out afterwards! Success is the best revenge against guys like that.

Skin

philwelch · Oct 2, 2009

Bernie, that may indeed be a move, but if that's the worst bad sportsmanship
conduct you have to deal with, consider yourself lucky. I've played guys that try to steal balls from you, etc. The move you describe is pretty mild.
JMHO phil welch

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 2, 2009

androd said:
I always play, pay what you owe but never put a coin on the table. Sometimes after their inning the spot ball may be in my way, if they don't spot it, I shoot and after my inning I tell them, "by the way you still owe one." If the spoting ball gives me a shot I remind them at the proper time. You'll learn to remember the shot they scratched, because these kind of guys'll want to argue.
Rod. < This way is a small advantage over sleepers, especially if they don't remember so well.
PS; There's a lot of mental stuff involved in one-pocket. Good luck with your game.

Rod,

I can't believe that someone put into words exactly what I've been doing for years. Not putting up a coin forces you to remember the EXACT shot your opponent fouled on and it keeps you sharp mentally.

And there's nothing like the way their heart drops when they think you have slept the foul. They make a few balls and go sit down and then, if it's to your advantage, you point out their owed ball. It's almost enough to make them put it up on their own in the first place but they don't. Guys like that always figure that they are the sharpie.

Much respect Rod for this tactic.

P.S. To answer the threads topic question: No opponent ever has any business touching any ball that I have pocketed in my pocket or any other pocket. That ends all problems before they come up.

Dennis

androd · Oct 2, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
Rod,

I can't believe that someone put into words exactly what I've been doing for years. Not putting up a coin forces you to remember the EXACT shot your opponent fouled on and it keeps you sharp mentally.

Dennis, I refer to it as mental chewing gum, just like crossword puzzles and asking someone you meet their name twice. It's embarassing, but I rarely forget again. When I first meet'em I'm usually thinking other things about'em and don't retain their name.
Rod.

Opinion on sportsmanship

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