Ervolino vs. Sigel 1991 Legends Of One-Pocket-Philadelphia Style

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

The game score is 2-2, racing to 5. This is Ervolino's 2nd shot of this game, he broke to the lower-right pocket, as you view the screen. There's no score in this game. What would you do?

P.S. The 15th ball is uptable to the right of the 6 and inconsequential to this shot.

fred bentivegna · Oct 13, 2010

I'll try it

I'll try it

Cowboy Dennis said:
The game score is 2-2, racing to 5. This is Ervolino's 2nd shot of this game, he broke to the lower-right pocket, as you view the screen. There's no score in this game. What would you do?

P.S. The 15th ball is uptable to the right of the 6 and inconsequential to this shot.

View attachment 1329

What I think is a strong shot is, to just tickle the object ball that the q ball is closest to, with extreme soft rt hand spin, sending the cue ball uptable. Not moving the ob hardly at all, and putting the cue ball uptable and into the best, IMO, place for maintaining your positional advantage. Even if you leave a cut shot on the ball closest to his pocket, he will have much difficulty getting more than one ball.

Beard

lll · Oct 13, 2010

with the q being so close to the stripe and the line of the 2 balls i cant see a way to move both those balls away from the pocket safely which of course i would like to do.(im sure if there is a way i'll learn it soon

)
the 9 seems far enough away from the corner that if the q was close to the long rail it could not be back cut and the distance of the 2 stripes as i see it makes the split shot not a gimmee especially if the q is close to the rail.
so i think i would thin off the solid(4 ball) to the left of the stack as you look at the screen and leave him up table as close to the rail as possible beyond the side pocket.
i realize this is pretty weak because he will probably bank a ball towards his pocket or into the stack to move balls toward his pocket
but seigal has already turned the break around and johnny is in trouble

mosconiac · Oct 13, 2010

I'd have to see the lie of the balls in 3D before I'd pull the trigger, but here's my first thought. I'd cut the 7 as much as possible (maybe the CB hits ABOVE the side pocket with kill) so I can move the 13 as far as I can without moving the 1 very far. Nudging the 1 takes away the 8/1 dead ball so it doesn't haunt me later in the game.

Optimally the CB would be on the end rail after the shot, the 13 would be in front of my hole & my opponent wouldn't be able to go after the 9B (cut or billiard) in front of his hole.

Then again, I will admit that I am the weakest player on this site. So I submit for your entertainment....

androd · Oct 13, 2010

Here's another thought. Not a hard draw shot to control.
Rod.

cuesmith · Oct 13, 2010

I'd shoot the 7 into the 8-1, lightly with low left english to bring the cueball to the side rail about 1 1/2 diamonds below the side pocket.

wincardona · Oct 13, 2010

androd said:
Here's another thought. Not a hard draw shot to control.
Rod.

I like this shot, providing you can controll the cue ball well enough to shoot it. That's why, (once again) it's so important to develope the feel for differen't shots. Like Rodney says..Not a hard shot to controll...But first you need to develope the feel for shots like this one so when they are available you will NOTICE them and have the confidence to shoot them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ervolino shot this shot, knowing how creative he was, plus his understanding of shots like this one.

I like this shot, looks like a strong shot that will give you an obvious advantage, and really cut down the options for your opponent.

Rod moves like a ghost.

Billy I.

Deeman · Oct 13, 2010

Nice one Rod!

DeeMan

Fast Lenny · Oct 13, 2010

mosconiac said:
I'd have to see the lie of the balls in 3D before I'd pull the trigger, but here's my first thought. I'd cut the 7 as much as possible (maybe the CB hits ABOVE the side pocket with kill) so I can move the 13 as far as I can without moving the 1 very far. Nudging the 1 takes away the 8/1 dead ball so it doesn't haunt me later in the game.

Optimally the CB would be on the end rail after the shot, the 13 would be in front of my hole & my opponent wouldn't be able to go after the 9B (cut or billiard) in front of his hole.

Then again, I will admit that I am the weakest player on this site. So I submit for your entertainment....

I like this shot and thought the same thing.

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

mosconiac said:
I'd have to see the lie of the balls in 3D before I'd pull the trigger, but here's my first thought. I'd cut the 7 as much as possible (maybe the CB hits ABOVE the side pocket with kill) so I can move the 13 as far as I can without moving the 1 very far. Nudging the 1 takes away the 8/1 dead ball so it doesn't haunt me later in the game.

Optimally the CB would be on the end rail after the shot, the 13 would be in front of my hole & my opponent wouldn't be able to go after the 9B (cut or billiard) in front of his hole.

Then again, I will admit that I am the weakest player on this site. So I submit for your entertainment....

Mosconiac,

You win a cookie!!!

Anybody with a handle like yours must play a little 14.1, just like Ervolino

. He did hit it a little harder though and with a bunch of draw

.

I know that if the Ghost didn't like Red's two ball takeout, he's got no chance of liking this shot

.

Here's how he ended up:

Dudley · Oct 13, 2010

You can't duck all the time...

One pocket at a high level can be very aggressive. "Right" or "Wrong" you have to like the results of his shot.

I bet he was trying to miss the 6 with his rock and get safe if he missed the ball...

Dud

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

androd said:
Here's another thought. Not a hard draw shot to control.
Rod.

Rod,

If I didn't play Freddy's safety then I would shoot the shot you've shown, it's the first shot I saw. People who've shot this in the past know that you have to understand the amount of follow that the cueball imparts to the object ball on this shot, unless you're just playing the cueball.

Dennis

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 13, 2010

Cowboy Dennis said:
I know that if the Ghost didn't like Red's two ball takeout, he's got no chance of liking this shot:

View attachment 1331

Here's how he ended up:

View attachment 1332

No I don't like it! (unless someone is playing for $10 a game - then it's a fun choice

) - Scott Frost wouldn't even have shot that shot!...I'd strangulate my partner if he shot that shot!..

...if the striped ball didn't go in Johnny's hole, he sold out the whole table to Sigel...

...

- Ghosty

PS, And yes, I do know that Ervolino was a champion straight pool player and knows all of those carom shots in the cluster, and yes, I did take that into consideration..

..that said, the % of pocketing the carom shot wasn't high enough to shoot it, while betting the whole game on it.

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

One Pocket Ghost said:
No I don't like it! (unless someone is playing for $10 a game - then it's a fun choice ) - Scott Frost wouldn't even have shot that shot...I'd strangulate my partner if he shot that shot.....if the striped ball didn't go in Johnny's hole, he sold out the whole table to Sigel.

- Ghosty

PS, And yes, I do know that Ervolino was a champion straight pool player and knows all of those carom shots in the cluster, and yes, I did take that into consideration....that said, the % of pocketing the carom shot wasn't high enough to shoot it, while betting the whole game on it.

Ghosty, Ghosty, Ghosty,

I agree with you 100%, I would kill him if he did this on my cash, unless he made it of course

. I also would have a hard time watching Red shoot that two-ball takeout, until I saw him shoot it so many times that I knew that he knew what he was doing.

I can't figure out how Ervolino & Sigel were ever able to concentrate on their match with this clumsy guy on the table next to them. This guy spilled pop all over himself and made all kinds of a ruckus. One of the commentators said that this guy "self-destructs in the heat of battle". I'll leave him anonymous unless he chooses to "out" himself

.

D, D, D

senor · Oct 13, 2010

The carom combo was the first shot that I looked for and would shoot it almost instantly. Other than being able to recognize when they are "on" (which you just have to get yourself in the habit of looking for them), you have to evaluate the chance of an extraneous object ball queering the path of the object ball to the pocket. Looking at the stack here, it is fairly clear that all balls except for the object ball are heading upstream.

Not surprised Lenny saw the shot, also, as much as he has been around Scott. Despite some of our more esteemed members thinking Scott wouldn't shoot this shot, I say the opposite. He would shoot this every time.

And kudos to mosconiac for seeing the shot first but being too nitty to really pull the trigger

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 13, 2010

senor said:
Despite some of our more esteemed members thinking Scott wouldn't shoot this shot, I say the opposite.

Wow, I don't think I've ever been called esteemed before...thanks senor...

- Ghost

gulfportdoc · Oct 13, 2010

One Pocket Ghost said:
No I don't like it! (unless someone is playing for $10 a game - then it's a fun choice ) - Scott Frost wouldn't even have shot that shot!...I'd strangulate my partner if he shot that shot!.....if the striped ball didn't go in Johnny's hole, he sold out the whole table to Sigel......

I agree with you here. I'm shocked that Ervolino chose that shot. I'd thought he was more of a mover. He bet the entire game on that trick shot when he didn't have to.

I'd have skimmed the left side of the 7 and tried to put the opponent on the head rail.

BTW, the sneezer on the next table couldn't have been Cardone, could it?

Doc

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

gulfportdoc said:
BTW, the sneezer on the next table couldn't have been Cardone, could it?

Doc

Cowboy Dennis said:
I'll leave him anonymous unless he chooses to "out" himself .

D, D, D

__________________
Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

Anonymity makes the world go 'round

.

lll · Oct 13, 2010

Cowboy Dennis said:
Mosconiac,

You win a cookie!!! Anybody with a handle like yours must play a little 14.1, just like Ervolino . He did hit it a little harder though and with a bunch of draw .

I know that if the Ghost didn't like Red's two ball takeout, he's got no chance of liking this shot .

View attachment 1331

Here's how he ended up:

View attachment 1332

all i gotta say is if you cant appreciate the imagination and experience to see that shot and pull it off (you can debate the right or wrong of it another time) take up bowling.
ONE POCKET IS THE GREATEST

Cowboy Dennis · Oct 13, 2010

lll said:
all i gotta say is if you cant appreciate the imagination and experience to see that shot and pull it off (you can debate the right or wrong of it another time) take up bowling.
ONE POCKET IS THE GREATEST

lll,

Just to head the Ghost "off at the pass", I'll say this: Ervolino shot a great 14.1 shot, if he sells out, his opponent may have to run 100 balls to win; I love the shot but it's not a great one-pocket shot

. I obviously appreciate his 'imagination & experience'. You gotta love it though, he risked it all on this shot and it worked out. We've all done that in a game of one-pocket and sometimes we won and sometimes we lost. All sins are forgiven when you make the ball

.

P.S. 14.1 was THE game back in '74, '75, & '76, when I started playing in the poolroom and learning things. I thought 14.1 was IT until I played banks & one-pocket and one-pocket on a snooker table.

Dennis

Ervolino vs. Sigel 1991 Legends Of One-Pocket-Philadelphia Style

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Attachments

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member

Verified Member