pool an offensive game

Fast Lenny said:

First tell us all the great straight shooters he beat and here is an interesting quote from Artie if you can comprehend it.

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I guess, Nick Varner, Bugs, (playing one pocket), Jimmy Reid, Cole Dixon, Danny Jones, Biily I., Gene Nagey, Cecil Tugwell, just to mention a few, weren't "straight" shooters at that time!

Let me just say this about, "aggressive" shooters, the FIRST thing they all have to have is an, "aggressive" shot to shoot! That's what Artie did, VERY well, not giving up, "aggressive" shots! Keeping this style of players "continuously" playing defensive shots! No one ever matched Artie in that department!

It's truly a shame, that 95% of the members on this or any other site didn't see Artie play in His prime and focused! I feel confident that many opinions of His game would change.

mr3cushion said:

I guess, Nick Varner, Bugs, (playing one pocket), Jimmy Reid, Cole Dixon, Danny Jones, Biily I., Gene Nagey, Cecil Tugwell, just to mention a few, weren't "straight" shooters at that time!

Let me just say this about, "aggressive" shooters, the FIRST thing they all have to have is an, "aggressive" shot to shoot! That's what Artie did, VERY well, not giving up, "aggressive" shots! Keeping this style of players "continuously" playing defensive shots! No one ever matched Artie in that department!

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Not saying they are not just wanted to know who he beat in his time. I wish Artie would post and tell us a bit about those matches. I like Arties post even if you have to be a code breaker to read them but when you do there are lots of gems in there. Artie wrote himself he would have had a hard time playing someone like Frost more then Efren and Ronnie in an ahead set. If you have someone who moves somewhat close to you but is far superior in aggressive shots, banking and running balls you can kiss your dough goodbye.

Fast Lenny said:

Not saying they are not just wanted to know who he beat in his time. I wish Artie would post and tell us a bit about those matches. I like Arties post even if you have to be a code breaker to read them but when you do there are lots of gems in there. Artie wrote himself he would have had a hard time playing someone like Frost more then Efren and Ronnie in an ahead set. If you have someone who moves somewhat close to you but is far superior in aggressive shots, banking and running balls you can kiss your dough goodbye.

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In red, Lenny, is where the issue lies! Scott has NEVER had the type of "defense" Artie could lay down! And, from the matches I've watched Scott play as far as his "defensive" play, Artie would be a, 9-5 favorite in the that department!

Artie also did say, "Scott would just be harder to beat, 6 ahead. thane Efren and RA," not that He wouldn't beat him!

mr3cushion said:

I guess, Nick Varner, Bugs, (playing one pocket), Jimmy Reid, Cole Dixon, Danny Jones, Biily I., Gene Nagey, Cecil Tugwell, just to mention a few, weren't "straight" shooters at that time!

Let me just this about, "aggressive" shooters, the FIRST thing they all have to have is an, "aggressive" shot to shoot! That's what Artie did, VERY well, not giving up, "aggressive" shots! Keeping this style of players "continuously" playing defensive shots! No one ever matched Artie in that department!

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Bill, everyone has a comfort zone. Some people have a defensive nature to their game. They see things in a way that works for them and they find great success in repeating that formula. Others have an offensive mind set, and for them to play a defensive style of play only hinders their ability to compete on a high level. It is easier to change gears from offense to defense but to turn defense into offense requires an offense to begin with.

Look at the style of players who are winning on a regular basis. They all have a great deal of fire power. Even some of the players new to One Pocket, like SVB for example; haven't been playing OP very many years and yet his offense overcomes most everyone's defense. They just can't keep him from finding a shot, and when he does make one, he is off to the races. That is the nature of today's game in a nut shell.

The difference between the game of thirty years ago and today's game lies in the knowledge today's players have acquired. I would wager that the players you have mentioned have considerably more knowledge and more offensive shots at their disposal then they did back when Artie was playing at his peak.

There should be no question that if you can keep your opponent on defense long enough, eventually that player is going to give up a viable shot to a strong shot maker. No game of pool, especially One Pocket has ever been won without offense. The player who averages runs of three balls will lose to the equivalent defensive player who's average run is five or six.

Pressure comes from the knowing that your opponent can win from any inning, not from knowing it will be difficult to find a shot to shoot.

Tom

NH Steve said:

I agree 100%. I "move well" but am "weak to the pocket". What that translates to when I play a player that shoots straighter than me is that I have to "beat them to the shot" two or three times, meanwhile not letting them run out on me. That's very, very tough and I cannot do it every game. Yes, I have an edge in moving, but what it is, a 20-30-40 percent edge? It is certainly not a 200-300% edge in this age with so much information about One Pocket being available, and the game being as popular as it is.

But it's still fun trying

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I feel your pain.

There is nothing more deflating than maneuvering your opponent into a trap that makes him give up a shot, then missing a "90%er" or screwing up a simple position play. It seems like every game I lose to players in my skill range is the result of missing a shot I was confident of making.

Tom Wirth said:

Bill, everyone has a comfort zone. Some people have a defensive nature to their game. They see things in a way that works for them and they find great success in repeating that formula. Others have an offensive mind set, and for them to play a defensive style of play only hinders their ability to compete on a high level. It is easier to change gears from offense to defense but to turn defense into offense requires an offense to begin with.

Look at the style of players who are winning on a regular basis. They all have a great deal of fire power. Even some of the players new to One Pocket, like SVB for example; haven't been playing OP very many years and yet his offense overcomes most everyone's defense. They just can't keep him from finding a shot, and when he does make one, he is off to the races. That is the nature of today's game in a nut shell.
The difference between the game of thirty years ago and today's game lies in the knowledge today's players have acquired. I would wager that the players you have mentioned have considerably more knowledge and more offensive shots at their disposal then they did back when Artie was playing at his peak.

There should be no question that if you can keep your opponent on defense long enough, eventually that player is going to give up a viable shot to a strong shot maker. No game of pool, especially One Pocket has ever been won without offense. The player who averages runs of three balls will lose to the equivalent defensive player who's average run is five or six.
Pressure comes from the knowing that your opponent can win from any inning, not from knowing it will be difficult to find a shot to shoot.

Tom

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Replying to in: RED:

Artie ran the balls as could as ANY player, playing one pocket! When shooters have to bunt the CB 9 or 10 shots in a row, they become NOT so confident in "their" shooting ability to come with that tough shout, if they even get one from Artie!

Most of these players, "straight" shooters, still at his age, can't find a way to run away from Efren! He's the ONE player now days that knows how to lay the CB on a dime for excellent defense!

Once again, Artie ran the balls as could as ANY player, playing one pocket, because He forced His opponent to leave Him ball running shots, NOT the other way around!!

mr3cushion said:

Replying to in: RED:

Artie ran the balls as could as ANY player, playing one pocket! When shooters have to bunt the CB 9 or 10 shots in a row, they become NOT so confident in "their" shooting ability to come with that tough shout, if they even get one from Artie!

Most of these players, "straight" shooters, still at his age, can't find a way to run away from Efren! He's the ONE player now days that knows how to lay the CB on a dime for excellent defense!

Once again, Artie ran the balls as could as ANY player, playing one pocket, because He forced His opponent to leave Him ball running shots, NOT the other way around!!

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Bill, you are making my point exactly. His ability to run balls was the factor at work which made him a winner. The defense got him the shots, the offense got him the win. You are right that a very strong defense can take some offensive minded players out of their game if they don't know how to combat that tactic, but it still will always be the case that balls must be pocketed to win games, and the player who runs more balls in fewer innings has the advantage. Defense to earn offense, offense to earn games. Players can win games of One Pocket with strong offense and little to no defense but nobody wins One Pocket games with strong defense and little to no offense.

Tom

Re: pool an offensive game

Fast Lenny said:

Here is another Artie gem.

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Wow! That's quite an endorsement!

Artie
i would like you to go alittle further into why it would be harder to beat scott than efren or ronnie
thanks for your reply

There is a lot of validity to playing good defense against great players.

I remember the first time I played Scott Frost and SVB. Most of the games that I won were because of defense. I put them in some bad positions and because they think they can make everything in sight, they would miss a though shot and sell out. I can see where Artie could have an edge over those guys.

Of course I wish I had more fire power but I enjoy the moving aspect. It reminds me of chess.

I think we have to identify the caliber of player we are talking about. If we're talking world class one pocket players then offense is critical to winning one pocket. I have seen 9 ball players humbled by old men who shaked while stroking and had trouble running 3 balls right in front of the hole. They just played superior defense. So most people think Cliff Joyner plays superior defense and I agree but his offense is not to the caliber of top players then by my reasoning, he isn't going to win even up against the top one pocket players of today. Why, Lack of offense.