Full Rack Banks

Does anyone play full rack banks anymore, or is that game lost to the ages?

I place full rack banks 2nd only to One Pocket in players strategy! There generally is a lot of safety and strategy play, and you have to know this to be able to play the game correctly.

I never played half rack banks so really can not comment on it except I believe it would change the game quite a bit.

I have to wonder when Johnston City added banks to their tournament if they played full rack or half rack!

I'd pay to see a pay per view of a full rack bank match between a couple of top notch bankers for some serious cash, for it truly is a fascinating game! But, which two players? Whitey

We still play full rack here on occasion. All i have to do is ask... We also have ring games often.

Dennis "Whitey" Young said:

Does anyone play full rack banks anymore, or is that game lost to the ages?

I place full rack banks 2nd only to One Pocket in players strategy! There generally is a lot of safety and strategy play, and you have to know this to be able to play the game correctly.

I never played half rack banks so really can not comment on it except I believe it would change the game quite a bit.

I have to wonder when Johnston City added banks to their tournament if they played full rack or half rack!

I'd pay to see a pay per view of a full rack bank match between a couple of top notch bankers for some serious cash, for it truly is a fascinating game! But, which two players? Whitey

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The Jansco Brothers never included Banks in their all-arounds. There were a couple/few all-around format tournaments between Johnston City and DCC but pretty much one offs. I believe one used something like a race to 23 balls, that was full rack... not totally sure though. I think that "race to a number of balls) was an RA innovation.

Growing up in the Chicago area, that's the only way I ever learned. Was a game that improved one's roll out game in 9 ball allot.

NH Steve said:

The Jansco Brothers never included Banks in their all-arounds. There were a couple/few all-around format tournaments between Johnston City and DCC but pretty much one offs. I believe one used something like a race to 23 balls, that was full rack... not totally sure though. I think that "race to a number of balls) was an RA innovation.

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I had a brain freeze! Jansco, was OP, Straight Pool, and 9-ball. Thanks for the correction!

Crabtree; it good to hear that full racks are still played.

Island dr.; in so. cal. late 60's early 70's full racks were only played. And yes I totally agree it definitely helps with your 9-ball push out game, a pre-requisite if you were to become a top notch 9-ball player, for many times a guy pushes out for a bank!

I pushed out once to the head rail and I had the 8 on center diamond and 9 on 1st diamond on the foot rail. I had to make sure the push was where the 8 ball could not be banked straight back for it was a kiss, so the opponent, Al the owner of Lakewoood Family Billiards, would give me the shot back. I slammed it with high reverse and back bank the 8 and the cue ball hug the foot rail and reversed off the side rail and held up for a straight in on the 9-ball. That's 9- ball back then! Al said; " I would not of given you the shot back if I knew you could hold up the ball like that"! That's shoot out! Whitey

NH Steve said:

The Jansco Brothers never included Banks in their all-around. There were a couple/few all-around format tournaments between Johnston City and DCC but pretty much one-offs. I believe one used something like a race to 23 balls, that was full rack... not totally sure though. I think that "race to a number of balls) was an RA innovation.

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There is a double elimination bank tournament that is hosted at least twice a year by room owner and onepocket.org member John Lavin at the "Red Shoes Billiards" in Alsip (a southwestern suburb of Chicago), Illinois.

The format is the winner of the flip of a coin breaks a full rack. The entire full rack is played out. The player who made the last ball of the first rack then breaks the second full rack until that rack is played out. In turn, the player who made the last ball of the second rack then breaks the third and final full rack.

There are a total of 45 balls in the three full racks. The first to legally bank 23 balls wins the match. The scoring is continuous. For example, a player who banked 10 balls to his opponent's 5 balls would need 13 more balls to win the match. The player who needed 13 balls could conceivably win the match in the second rack. In contrast, the player who banked 5 balls in the first rack would need 18 balls to win the match and would need balls from both the second and third racks to win the match.

Additionally, any fouls occurring in the second and third racks are not taken from the totals of the first rack. Those fouls that do occur in the second and third racks must be paid during the play of those individual racks.

gulfportdoc said:

J.R.-- Sounds like a great format. Do the breakers use a full, smash 'em break, or a safe break?

~Doc

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Here the young guns hit them hard. The old schoolers play the safe break.

gulfportdoc said:

J.R.-- Sounds like a great format. Do the breakers use a full, smash 'em break, or a safe break?

~Doc

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The players in the matches to "23" seem to use both a safe break and a smash 'em break.

I prefer to use a safe break against the players who think they bank like God (they believe that whatever they shoot at will miraculously go in the pocket). These players will shoot at anything. I will also use a safe break if I am leading in a match against a stronger player or if I am losing to a weaker player.

Usually, if two strong players are matched up against each other, it seems that the safe break is utilized exclusively. It's usually the opposite if two weak players are matched up against each other, they seem to always use a smash 'em break.

Full rack bank pool

Full rack bank pool

We will be hosting a BANK POOL TOURNAMENT on May 19th, 2018. It is FULL RACK BANK POOL....race to 23 balls (both sides). To answer the OPENING BREAK question.....about 1/2 of the players use the "safety break" (vs an "open break"). A player MUST DECLARE "safe" when breaking though. Otherwise "IF" a ball is pocketed without the declaration the opponent can insist the "breaker" keep shooting.....for additional information CONTACT: John Lavin @ Red Shoes Billiards 12009 S. Pulaski Rd. Alsip, Illinois 60803 (tel. 708-388-3700 or website: redshoesbilliards.com or FACEBOOK).

Can you safe break by kick banking the cue ball into the side of the rack similar to a one pocket break?

Thanks guys for the posts, I'd still like to know what guys think of who should match up for a big challenged match with a full rack? My vote is Dennis Orcollo vs. anyone, not because he might be the best banker, but I believe it is recognized he is the best money game man!

I find it very interesting about the break, for I am not up to speed in how the game is played today. But Crabbcatjohn, since threading this I did reviewed DCC bank rules and BCAPL, and I believe this is the break ruling, any racked ball can be first contacted, and then thereafter either a ball must be pocketed or a ball must go past the side pocket.

It used to be 4 balls had to hit a rail and that is called an "Open Break". Funny in my '68 BCA rule book; Bank Pool is still not recognized as a game, so one has to wonder when BCA started recognizing it.

Crabtbcatjohn, do not rely on my answer on the break, for I am hear to learn, so I also have to refer to more knowledgeable members! Whitey

John b. Would tear Dennis o. Out of the frame at full rack. Shannon D. Plays full rack pretty sporty also.

B

wgcp said:

John b. Would tear Dennis o. Out of the frame at full rack. Shannon D. Plays full rack pretty sporty also.

B

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it is a different game than 5 and out for sure imo....

yep JB plays all banks incredibly but I bet his full rack is damn strong!

crabbcatjohn said:

Can you safe break by kick banking the cue ball into the side of the rack similar to a one pocket break?

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Yes, you can "safe break" by kick banking the cue ball into the side of the rack similar to a one pocket break. And just like in one pocket, at least one of the object balls from the rack must make contact with a rail, otherwise, it is a foul.

However, if a player decides to use a "kick-bank safe break," the strategy is suspect because the incoming player can easily shoot a strong safety by glancing off the rack and rolling the cue ball to the back rail.

J.R. said:

Yes, you can "safe break" by kick banking the cue ball into the side of the rack similar to a one pocket break. And just like in one pocket, at least one of the object balls from the rack must make contact with a rail, otherwise, it is a foul.

However, if a player decides to use a "kick-bank safe break," the strategy is suspect because the incoming player can easily shoot a strong safety by glancing off the rack and rolling the cue ball to the back rail.

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That's interesting, never seen anybody do it but i was curious is why i asked. Thanks for the insight.

NH Steve said:

The Jansco Brothers never included Banks in their all-arounds. There were a couple/few all-around format tournaments between Johnston City and DCC but pretty much one offs. I believe one used something like a race to 23 balls, that was full rack... not totally sure though. I think that "race to a number of balls) was an RA innovation.

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You are correct Steve. That was the Dayton tournaments during the 70's and early 80's when Joe Burns owned the place. The reason it was a Race to 23 was so it would only take three racks max to finish. Joe was an excellent Bank Pool player, the best in Dayton. He used to spar with Eddie Taylor getting 9-7. I beat Larry Lisciotti and Willie Munson the one year I played back there. Lost to Cannonball and Steve Cook.

P.S. Full Rack was the only way I ever saw Banks played until the early 80's in the Clyde Childress tourney. They shortened it to make the matches go faster and they did! We used to play a Race to Five, Bank Pool in those days. The first one I ever played in like that in Lexington (1984) I lost in the first round to Earl 5-zip! I was so mad I practiced all night and then I beat Mike Lebron, Louie Lemke and Freddy the Beard in order. Dave Bollman finally eliminated me in a hill-hill, 4 balls each match!

I wonder why traditional bank pool (full rack or even 5 and out) is such a different game than by-the-rail.

There are some around here that can win one way and not the other way. I figured, banking is banking and the better banker will win...but not always the case!

I would be more than happy to play some full rack while at the members tournament. I hit balls into the rail already it shouldn’t be that hard for me.

B

Best banker today is Tony Cohan, then John Brumback. Safe break, full break, Tony is the best if his head is into it that day. John is probably the best technical banker, but T-Rex is number 1. Sorry Col. But you’re third! (Outta three). I don’t like full rack because it is too slow. Could it be I’m not a good banker? Yes that’s the answer but I will play almost anyone banks who is not a professional. I open break because it is already a slow enough game, there isn’t enough money in the world to play safe break. A ball on the break would be a foul unless you are just talking about shooting again after the break. Like I said, let’s get together Whitey and exchange some cash. It’s five hours to Portland for me. Middle ground? I can take the wife on a mini vacation, she can hike and see the sights, we can see the green, now blue, felt.
After July 30th, give a week or two for healing.