Action: Frost vs. Richeson!

jrhendy · Oct 9, 2014

LSJohn said:
Not meaning to be argumentative, but doing this once in a while is part of his speed, isn't it?

He misses balls because of his aggressive style, but some of his shot choices when the game is in hand have surprised me and cost him at least two key games and take a five game lead.

I may be off base, but having played him a few times I feel we are not seeing his best game here.

I would be interested in hearing from Lenny and Billy I.

LSJohn · Oct 9, 2014

jrhendy said:
I feel we are not seeing his best game here.

I'm not doubting that. You probably know his game as well as anyone.

I was just suggesting that a player's speed includes how often he's NOT playing at or very near his best.

IOW, "speed" and "top speed" aren't the same for any of us.

jtompilot · Oct 9, 2014

jrhendy said:
He misses balls because of his aggressive style, but some of his shot choices when the game is in hand have surprised me and cost him at least two key games and take a five game lead.

I may be off base, but having played him a few times I feel we are not seeing his best game here.

I would be interested in hearing from Lenny and Billy I.

I'm not watching the match but have to agree with you on most of your post. I also have played Scott several times and watch him as much as I can. I've seen too many stupid shots but it's not unlike several other super straight shooters that think they can make everything. It doesn't take many screw ups and a player like Ritchie can beat your a$$

wincardona · Oct 9, 2014

jrhendy said:
He misses balls because of his aggressive style, but some of his shot choices when the game is in hand have surprised me and cost him at least two key games and take a five game lead.

I may be off base, but having played him a few times I feel we are not seeing his best game here.

I would be interested in hearing from Lenny and Billy I.

You're correct John, you hit the nail on the head when you say that he loses games that he has in hand but refuses to show discipline. If there is a chink in his armor it's his inability to play smart when he has the lead. I have seen him do this too many times, and to me it's a major flaw in his thinking that will continue to hold him back from reaching the status that he seeks. To be recognized as the best of the best you cannot play recklessly and expect to reach that pinnacle of respect. I watched him do the same thing in his match against Reyes in Poplar Bluff, he actually gave him the match because of his shot selection, particularly when he had large leads.

I believe in time he'll recognize this but it won't come easy for him because of his aggressive style. If I could give him advice that he would respect it would be to gamble early and tighten up later in games, especially when leading.

Bill Incardona

mr3cushion · Oct 9, 2014

wincardona said:
You're correct John, you hit the nail on the head when you say that he loses games that he has in hand but refuses to show discipline. If there is a chink in his armor it's his inability to play smart when he has the lead. I have seen him do this too many times, and to me it's a major flaw in his thinking that will continue to hold him back from reaching the status that he seeks. To be recognized as the best of the best you cannot play recklessly and expect to reach that pinnacle of respect. I watched him do the same thing in his match against Reyes in Poplar Bluff, he actually gave him the match because of his shot selection, particularly when he had large leads.

I believe in time he'll recognize this but it won't come easy for him because of his aggressive style. If I could give him advice that he would respect it would be to gamble early and tighten up later in games, especially when leading.

Bill Incardona

Billy; 100% as usual. I think what has happened is, Scott has backed himself into a corner with this, "Power One Pocket" persona and literally with his DVD's! It's to hard profess a theory and sell it along with trying to WIN with it, every time you go to the post. It's a great title and theory, but, there comes a time when you have to apply the breaks when your speeding down hill.

wincardona · Oct 9, 2014

Tom Wirth said:
Doc. If no game ever reaches the stage where each player only needs one ball it is hard to say whether the spot has any influence on the fairness of the match. Richie may very well be winning all of his games without the need of the handicap. The bottom line is, if a top player can win with a one ball spot, he can also win playing even.

I've always felt that outside of a psychological boost, a one ball spot between two top players means very little. This may prove to be one more example of this theory. Of course having to make one fewer ball is definitely a plus, it really doesn't factor that often.

Tom

Tom, I don't agree with your thinking on this. A one ball spot is huge, especially 8/7 if you have the intelligence to take advantage of it, and also the intelligence to play solidly when giving it. I have played many times where the one ball spot was clearly the difference in winning or losing, i'm speaking about playing the same person one time with it and then the next time even. Every time the one ball advantage showed for the player receiving it (in some way) and he would win. When the game was adjusted to play even it reverted back to the other player winning . It has much more to do than just the psychological edge one has, and if you don't believe that it could prove to be quite costly. Jmo.

Dr. Bill

baby huey · Oct 9, 2014

There are two elements of this match that haven't been covered or at least covered enough. First off, 8/7 is a huge spot. Think of it this way, your opponent has to beat you 8/6 and in an even match he has to win 8/7. RR is a wily veteran and this money means very little to him in regards to his being in serious action all the time. Lastly, what are the rules regarding how long they play? If there is no time limit, RR might have to give Scott 8/7 (just kidding) but RR is very long winded. If it goes more than two days…….RR wins.

lll · Oct 9, 2014

jerry matchin said:
There are two elements of this match that haven't been covered or at least covered enough. First off, 8/7 is a huge spot. Think of it this way, your opponent has to beat you 8/6 and in an even match he has to win 8/7. RR is a wily veteran and this money means very little to him in regards to his being in serious action all the time. Lastly, what are the rules regarding how long they play? If there is no time limit, RR might have to give Scott 8/7 (just kidding) but RR is very long winded. If it goes more than two days…….RR wins.

according to the poster on the event it has to end by friday oct 10
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=140044&postcount=3

Island Drive · Oct 9, 2014

Are they workin' the rail at all??????????????

senor · Oct 9, 2014

Tom Wirth said:
Doc. If no game ever reaches the stage where each player only needs one ball it is hard to say whether the spot has any influence on the fairness of the match. Richie may very well be winning all of his games without the need of the handicap. The bottom line is, if a top player can win with a one ball spot, he can also win playing even.

I've always felt that outside of a psychological boost, a one ball spot between two top players means very little. This may prove to be one more example of this theory. Of course having to make one fewer ball is definitely a plus, it really doesn't factor that often.

Tom

Captain Obvious says that running 7 balls is 1 ball easier than running 8 balls

jrhendy · Oct 9, 2014

Memories

Memories

This match brings back memories of the first time I saw Scott play one pocket. It was against Keith McCready at the Cue Club in Las Vegas sometime in the 90's.

Keith won the first few games in a row in an ahead match and it looked like a runaway. Keith was making everything and refused to play safe in a game that would have put him up four or five games going 7 or 8 ahead. Scott won a game from way behind in balls and you could see the confidence that gave him, and he went on to win the set.

I know Scott remembers this one because he told me this was his first match for 10k.

I hope this is not deja vu with Scott on the wrong end this time.

Terry Hanna · Oct 9, 2014

I think what makes 8/7 such a big spot is it really shows up in the close games
it is a huge difference say both players have 6 balls now richie
is playing for 1 scott playing for 2 that changes the whole way a game is played
scott has to play shots that he would not play if they both needed 2
every time richie makes a ball that spot gets bigger in each game
8/7 with good players that play close games is a huge spot

wincardona · Oct 9, 2014

never losing when on the hill

never losing when on the hill

Whats a one ball spot worth?

#1 Never losing when you're on the hill with 7 balls

#2 Never having to play position on your 8th ball

#3 Altering your opponents shot selection whenever you're on the hill.

#4 The ability to put a ball out of play whenever there are two balls left on the table where you can win and your opponent can't.

#5 Running out is always easier needing seven balls as opposed to eight.

#6 The player giving the weight usually is under more pressure, and is always playing from behind at the start of the game.

There are probably other reasons why the spot can show but the above reasons are reasons enough to explain why a one ball spot is huge.

Dr. Bill

wincardona · Oct 9, 2014

jrhendy said:
This match brings back memories of the first time I saw Scott play one pocket. It was against Keith McCready at the Cue Club in Las Vegas sometime in the 90's.

Keith won the first few games in a row in an ahead match and it looked like a runaway. Keith was making everything and refused to play safe in a game that would have put him up four or five games going 7 or 8 ahead. Scott won a game from way behind in balls and you could see the confidence that gave him, and he went on to win the set.

I know Scott remembers this one because he told me this was his first match for 10k.

I hope this is not deja vu with Scott on the wrong end this time.

I was there for this match, it was in the pit area on the second table not the feature table. Also, Keith had not been playing much pool at that time but that didn't stop him (nor Scott) from shooting at their hole.

Dr. Bill

mr3cushion · Oct 9, 2014

Island Drive said:
Are they workin' the rail at all??????????????

VERY GOOD, Bill!

onepockethacker · Oct 9, 2014

Im guessing Richie is the better banker so in this match with him receiving the spot it makes 8 7 HUGE.

Tom Wirth · Oct 9, 2014

I think I should have qualified my statement somewhat. When I referred to "top players" I should have said top aggressive players. There are a few top players who play more of a moving game and capitalize on the errors of their opponents, taking what the able gives them and risking very little. Nick and his wedge game comes to mind.

These two players run balls quite well and push the envelope in an attempt to run out. As a result there are few games which are close in score. Bill is right in all the things he said about 8 -7 but it isn't like playing one and stop. 8 - 7 is not the same thing for ball runners as it is for short stops.

Of course there will be times when the game is close and the value of that one ball becomes quite the factor and it is true that it is easier to run 7 balls than it is to run eight, but if either one of these guys run 5 or 6 balls the game is all but won or at least should be.

Dr. Bill, would you know if there are any stats on the number of games which go down to the last ball in tournament play? My experience tells me that it is relatively rare in formats such as this one now being played.

Tom

gulfportdoc · Oct 9, 2014

jerry matchin said:
There are two elements of this match that haven't been covered or at least covered enough. First off, 8/7 is a huge spot. Think of it this way, your opponent has to beat you 8/6 and in an even match he has to win 8/7. RR is a wily veteran and this money means very little to him in regards to his being in serious action all the time. Lastly, what are the rules regarding how long they play? If there is no time limit, RR might have to give Scott 8/7 (just kidding) but RR is very long winded. If it goes more than two days…….RR wins.

Jerry-- They have agreed to quit after 8 hours each day.

You're right about 8-7 being large. One ball is bigger, of course, the fewer the total. So 7-6 or 6-5 would be even larger. Seems to me that 8-7 is fairly well in the middle of 1 ball spots. Although the lower numbers are hardly ever used.

I'm surprised they didn't play to a higher number, like 10-8, although that might slightly favor Scott more. Also they may have felt that it would add too much time to the contest (longer games).

~Doc

FastEddieF. · Oct 9, 2014

The Dr. Knows

The Dr. Knows

About 3 years ago I was talking to Ronnie Allen and he told me he could beat Eddie Kelly giving him 9-8 but couldn't beat him 8-7. That shows you how 8-7 is such a big spot. Dr. Bill knows for sure, because he has been in more action than most guys on this site. Dr. Bill out moved E.Reyes when Reyes was playing Scott Frost, remember the 9 ball, Dr.Bill said Reyes made a big mistake not moving the 9 ball. The 9 ball cost Reyes the game. Great CALL

Mkbtank · Oct 9, 2014

Action: Frost vs. Richeson!

Currently frost is up 1 game (15-14) and 2-0 in this game.

Action: Frost vs. Richeson!

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