Interesting racking question

crabbcatjohn · Mar 15, 2015

Interesting racking question for those who might know. I was playing a well known young professional player one pocket the other day. There has been some controversy in some 9 ball tournaments over loading the rack by dragging the 1 ball back with your fingers. He of course says he is just trying to get the balls to freeze....lol Anyway, we play rack your own one pocket but if you make one on the break it doesn't count. So he is racking and he's fooling with that head ball... He's breaking from the right side. Well i notice when he was dragging the head ball back he moves the whole line of balls on the break side back noticeably. Well i call him on it and he says the same old BS, i can't get the balls tight etc. Well there racking fine for me...lol So my question is this. Is this a way to load the rack in one pocket without twisting them towards your hole?

androd · Mar 15, 2015

crabbcatjohn said:
Interesting racking question for those who might know. I was playing a well known young professional player one pocket the other day. There has been some controversy in some 9 ball tournaments over loading the rack by dragging the 1 ball back with your fingers. He of course says he is just trying to get the balls to freeze....lol Anyway, we play rack your own one pocket but if you make one on the break it doesn't count. So he is racking and he's fooling with that head ball... He's breaking from the right side. Well i notice when he was dragging the head ball back he moves the whole line of balls on the break side back noticeably. Well i call him on it and he says the same old BS, i can't get the balls tight etc. Well there racking fine for me...lol So my question is this. Is this a way to load the rack in one pocket without twisting them towards your hole?

I've never heard this. There's a lot I haven't heard. Just let him rack for both of you, see how that works out. I have different ideas about the rack, I think racking them tight is better for the non breaker. I won't get into anymore crazy theories.
Rod.
P.S. I always try to get my opponent to rack for both of us.

Racking is tiresome.
P.P.S. Usually people who wish to rack their own are paranoid or think they know something.

onepockethacker · Mar 15, 2015

crabbcatjohn said:
Interesting racking question for those who might know. I was playing a well known young professional player one pocket the other day. There has been some controversy in some 9 ball tournaments over loading the rack by dragging the 1 ball back with your fingers. He of course says he is just trying to get the balls to freeze....lol Anyway, we play rack your own one pocket but if you make one on the break it doesn't count. So he is racking and he's fooling with that head ball... He's breaking from the right side. Well i notice when he was dragging the head ball back he moves the whole line of balls on the break side back noticeably. Well i call him on it and he says the same old BS, i can't get the balls tight etc. Well there racking fine for me...lol So my question is this. Is this a way to load the rack in one pocket without twisting them towards your hole?

Yes it is and its one of many things wrong with pool.

Mkbtank · Mar 15, 2015

Interesting racking question

I am always concerned that if I am breaking and my opponent racks and leaves the corner ball loose closest to my hole, it will be a sellout.

For that reason, I am actually a big fan of "Rack your own".

And if not racking our own, checking the rack! Especially the corner balls.

Just My $US.02

crabbcatjohn · Mar 15, 2015

I don't get it

I don't get it

Mkbtank said:
I am actually a big fan of "Rack your own". For me, the reason is if I break and kick out a ball towards my opponents hole and leave him a hanger, I have no one to blame but myself, and vice versa.

Yea, that's why i like it too and also its just the normal way we play around here. The guys I usually play with are friends and we play low stakes like 10 a game so its not really a issue. Time is cheap here so you can play for less if you don't want to beat up on somebody. But what i don't get is he is a local and we WERE friends since he was 15. Playing cheap too.... I guess being on the road hardens you to friendships. Oh well, very inexpensive lesson learned I guess. From now on i'm going to keep my eyes wide open out there.
I know about the loose corner ball.

beatle · Mar 15, 2015

when in rome do as the romans do.

so tilt the rack and loosen the balls you want when you rack.

that is why the opponent should rack for you and you inspect it before you break.

i just do what they do when i gamble if its a tougher game.if its an easy one he does whatever he wants to do.

but if gambling and you want to have tight proper racks for both of you then make the rule that after you push the rack forward you only can touch the back row of balls and only with your two thumbs.

Deeman · Mar 15, 2015

Would the Magic Rack help this in one pocket. Seing it used in nine ball, there seem to be no gaps but with the easier break in one pocket, might the plastic " holes" in the Magic Rack cause the balls to open differently?

Never seen one used in one pocket, maybe for good reasons!

lll · Mar 16, 2015

Deeman said:
Would the Magic Rack help this in one pocket. Seing it used in nine ball, there seem to be no gaps but with the easier break in one pocket, might the plastic " holes" in the Magic Rack cause the balls to open differently?

Never seen one used in one pocket, maybe for good reasons!

in 9 ball the balls spread enough so there is room to remove it
in 1p it would be on the table longer and might alter the path of a slow rolling ball over it or affect how the balls lie in the stack
could you imagine nudging a ball and it falls into one of the holes in the rack instead of froze to the ball you were trying to freeze it to...

crabbcatjohn · Mar 16, 2015

not a option

not a option

beatle said:
when in rome do as the romans do.

so tilt the rack and loosen the balls you want when you rack.

that is why the opponent should rack for you and you inspect it before you break.

i just do what they do when i gamble if its a tougher game.if its an easy one he does whatever he wants to do.

but if gambling and you want to have tight proper racks for both of you then make the rule that after you push the rack forward you only can touch the back row of balls and only with your two thumbs.

For me cheating in any form because my opponent is doing it isn't a option. If they do it once its a warning. If they do it again i just unscrew.

androd · Mar 16, 2015

crabbcatjohn said:
For me cheating in any form because my opponent is doing it isn't a option. If they do it once its a warning. If they do it again i just unscrew.

Just curious is he pulling back the side he hits or the side nearest his pocket.
Rod.
P.S. I such a disbeliever I have to try it myself. :frus

crabbcatjohn · Mar 16, 2015

Rod

Rod

Hey Rod, he pulled back the whole line on the side he hits them on. He moved them quite a bit. I've never seen anybody do it like this with a full rack of balls. He only did it once and i caught him and made him re-rack. So i don't know what the results are. Hes notorious for noodling the 1 ball and loading the rack like that in nine ball.

straightback · Mar 16, 2015

crabbcatjohn said:
Hey Rod, he pulled back the whole line on the side he hits them on. He moved them quite a bit. I've never seen anybody do it like this with a full rack of balls. He only did it once and i caught him and made him re-rack. So i don't know what the results are. Hes notorious for noodling the 1 ball and loading the rack like that in nine ball.

I think the practice of rack finagling is despicable. Get up there and play like a man.

baby huey · Mar 16, 2015

Whether stacking a rack is despicable or not, you need to know when it's being done to you. Some players have found it an art to rack balls in such a manner that they are all frozen and you will never make a ball on the break, or at least seldom make a ball on the break. I once saw a match about 20 years ago between Billy Incardona and Morro Paez where Billy never made a ball on the break and soft breaked the final game. It was nine ball and maybe Billy can chime in on this and correct me if I am wrong on my memory but I think Morro was racking the balls with sweaty hands and the balls just didn't move at all. I have also seen some players use different parts of the spot to rack the balls in one pocket such that you can scratch more often by racking the head ball a little closer to your pocket thus providing a little more opportunity for the opponent to scratch or at least have the wing ball open up into his pocket. I have also seen baby powder used in self racking situations and the balls just fly open when struck. Lastly when I was a kid and mud balls were still around, when some balls were chipped and you used to rack the chipped section of the ball to a round edge, you got no action on the break at all.

wincardona · Mar 16, 2015

jerry matchin said:
Whether stacking a rack is despicable or not, you need to know when it's being done to you. Some players have found it an art to rack balls in such a manner that they are all frozen and you will never make a ball on the break, or at least seldom make a ball on the break. I once saw a match about 20 years ago between Billy Incardona and Morro Paez where Billy never made a ball on the break and soft breaked the final game. It was nine ball and maybe Billy can chime in on this and correct me if I am wrong on my memory but I think Morro was racking the balls with sweaty hands and the balls just didn't move at all. I have also seen some players use different parts of the spot to rack the balls in one pocket such that you can scratch more often by racking the head ball a little closer to your pocket thus providing a little more opportunity for the opponent to scratch or at least have the wing ball open up into his pocket. I have also seen baby powder used in self racking situations and the balls just fly open when struck. Lastly when I was a kid and mud balls were still around, when some balls were chipped and you used to rack the chipped section of the ball to a round edge, you got no action on the break at all.

Morro always racked the balls by pushing and tightening the balls while racking with the palm of both hands.He would touch every ball in the 9ball rack with the palm of his hands, now his hands may have been wet, I really don't know, but possible. Ronnie Allen would pull him up when he racked against him..Ronnie would say loudly.."What kind of shit is this, no one racks the balls putting their hands all over the balls" Anyways it was another player that you were watching, it wasn't Morro, it was at "Hard Times" we played a set for 20K ten ahead. I played very good pool at that time I was around 45 years old and broke the balls really well. I had a 23 ounce break cue, I would hit the balls squarely and hard and get little to no action, it was pretty frustrating to me, I was surprised I lasted as long as I did, but he eventually got me after about 12 hours. Years later a veteran player who is a stand up guy came to me and said that during that session my opponent would wipe his hands with a white towel.. like he was drying his hands of perspiration before racking my balls, when in fact the towel was wet:heh and that was the reason I wasn't getting any action from my break.

Dr. Bill

Deeman · Mar 16, 2015

lll said:
in 9 ball the balls spread enough so there is room to remove it
in 1p it would be on the table longer and might alter the path of a slow rolling ball over it or affect how the balls lie in the stack
could you imagine nudging a ball and it falls into one of the holes in the rack instead of froze to the ball you were trying to freeze it to...

Yes, I thought about that a while after I posted!

It is kinda funny that after putting a man on the moon and developing a bra that will hold back Dolly Pardon, we can't get racking out of the equation.

Drop Pocket · Mar 16, 2015

Mkbtank said:
And if not racking our own, checking the rack! Especially the corner balls.

Just My $US.02

This is something I learned a long, long time ago! I ALWAYS check the rack, even when practicing with someone I know and in all games. It pisses some people off but I do it so I don't get out of the habit.

DickP · Mar 17, 2015

Hey Rod, he pulled back the whole line on the side he hits them on. He moved them quite a bit.

I thought that dishonest rackers tended to tilt the line towards their own pocket, and so OPPOSITE the side contacted?

crabbcatjohn · Mar 17, 2015

DickP said:
I thought that dishonest rackers tended to tilt the line towards their own pocket, and so OPPOSITE the side contacted?

If you pull back the line on the side you hit them on you are basically tilting the rack towards your pocket. At least that's the way i see it. I probably won't be able to test it myself for a while as my work obligations are overwhelming right now.

DickP · Mar 17, 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickP View Post
I thought that dishonest rackers tended to tilt the line towards their own pocket, and so OPPOSITE the side contacted?
If you pull back the line on the side you hit them on you are basically tilting the rack towards your pocket. At least that's the way i see it. I probably won't be able to test it myself for a while as my work obligations are overwhelming right now.

So all this time... the person I was really cheating... WAS MYSELF! Lol

Deeman · Mar 17, 2015

DickP said:
So all this time... the person I was really cheating... WAS MYSELF! Lol

Just our luck, to become a rack artist and do it the wrong way!

Interesting racking question

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