2013 FROST v DAULTON

Miller said:

2013 Frost v Daulton (AccuStats Invitational Sandcastle Billiards)
First rack.
Ball count is 5-2 in favor of Shannon. Scott's shot.
WWYD?

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onepockethacker said:

Ok.. Here we go again... Being down 5 to 2 and the 11 ball being in a great banking position for Shannon that has to be a priority. Im banking the 11 ball into the stack, opening the balls up to my side and sticking the cue ball on the side rail. I might make one of the balls in my hole. Since the 6 ball is where it is Shannon will not have a direct cross corner bank after this shot. He will have to play a bank combo to score. Since the 11 ball is now no longer on Shannons side that stripe up table now becomes a real big bankable ball for me... I would be absolutely shocked If Scott soft kicks the 6 ball as it accomplishes nothing and gives a banking animal like Shannon a free bank.
P.S. If the 6 ball wasn't where it is then you might hesitate to bank the ball into the stack because Shannon might get a look at a clean bank. Since the score and ball position is how it is now... I would definitely bank the 11 ball into the stack.... Hope this helps some people out.

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wincardona said:

Banking the 11ball looks to be the correct shot based on not only the score but the ball position as well. Playing off the 6ball in any way allows Shannon to shoot a bank that looks to be fairly free. There's one other shot that I would consider, that would be to carom the 14ball off the 2ball and drop behind the 6ball. If the angle for the carom looks right I may even try to billiard the 6ball to my side.

Bill Incardona

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wincardona said:

Banking the 11ball looks to be the correct shot based on not only the score but the ball position as well. Playing off the 6ball in any way allows Shannon to shoot a bank that looks to be fairly free. There's one other shot that I would consider, that would be to carom the 14ball off the 2ball and drop behind the 6ball. If the angle for the carom looks right I may even try to billiard the 6ball to my side.

Bill Incardona

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wincardona said:

I spoke about intricacies in another thread and explained how they should be taken advantage of. Take this position for example. If you notice the placement of the 10ball and the 15ball you will see that the 10ball doesn't go in Scott's pocket, however, if the 10ball was positioned further to the right that would then favor Scott because both the 10 and 15ball would go into his pocket and neither ball would go into Shannons pocket. If that was the situation I would then play the carom off the 2ball with speed and knock the 6ball to my side. This option now becomes the correct one because you now have much more ball running potential and less of a risk with selling out balls if the carom doesn't fall, because of the position of the 10 and 15ball.

Just thought I would run that buy whom ever may be interested in expanding their understanding of positions.

Bill Incardona

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vapros said:

Absolutely, Dr. Bill. Play the carom off the 14, and freeze him up tight behind the 6. The 2 goes uptable, the 14 goes your way, and might even improve the position of the 15. Hard to tell from here, but it looks like the 14 has a good chance to nick the 15. Nothing but good news here for the Freezer.

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onepockethacker said:

Two things, like Billy and I said if the 15 ball isn't going to get moved the shot isn't that strong. Plus if the 14 ball ends up on the and rail it is useless and leaves Shannon a free bank.

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wincardona said:

Lets not try to build a case against this option not being a viable one which it is. You do realize that the shooter is at a disadvantage in this position..but there's a chance to level the field by shooting the 11ball or playing the carom. Both options carry a risk..the 11ball can easily leave a return bank and the carom option may position the 14ball on the rail where Shannon will then have a free bank at the 11ball, there's no guarantee with either option but with both options you can escape or possibly gain an advantage. However, the carom option offers you much better control of the cue ball and you can easily judge your worst case scenario. Just though i'd mention that.

Bill Incardona

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vapros said:

Absolutely, Dr. Bill. Play the carom off the 14, and freeze him up tight behind the 6. The 2 goes uptable, the 14 goes your way, and might even improve the position of the 15. Hard to tell from here, but it looks like the 14 has a good chance to nick the 15. Nothing but good news here for the Freezer.

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onepockethacker said:

I dont think the carom lays right for the speed you will need to hit it to be an effective shot. I could be wrong though. IF the shot lays right to be able to carom the 14 ball in front of your pocket AND hide the cue ball behind the 6 ball I would shoot that. I just don't think that angle is there. Like I said though I could be wrong.

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wincardona said:

I set this shot up on my table and was really surprised to see how great the results were with the carom option. With the carom option you can hit the lead ball fat and fall solidly behind the 6ball with consistency..plus you still get good movement from the 14ball. The hit is simple and effective. If hit "fat" you can move the 15ball, plus if hit thinly you can pocket the 14ball. You really have to "butcher" the shot to fail.

Seriously, try it.

Bill Incardona

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onepockethacker said:

Im going to take your word on it. Like I said though if the 14 ball ends up on the rail the shot is not that good. The 14 must go in, end up makeable or open up the 10 and 15 balls to be an effective option. If none of those 3 happen its not a good shot. If Scott doesn't choose that option then It probably doesn't lay right.

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wincardona said:

Whether he chooses the option or not doesn't change the way it's laying..and its laying right. Trust me again on that.

There's no guarantee that no matter what option we choose, either in this situation or in another one that we will succeed. All we can do is figure out which shot offers us the best chance to succeed and try to execute it.

That's the beauty in the wwyd's, we get a chance to set them up and find out first hand how effective the shot actually is. The players that are actually playing in the wwyd's don't have that "luxury" they only get one chance to succeed, the same as we do when we are playing a live match However, we can benefit from wwyd's if we choose to.

Bill Incardona

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onepockethacker said:

Hold up.. back up.. We both agree if the shot lays right its the right shot right? Meaning if he can either make the 14 ball, put the 14 ball by his hole not on the end rail or open up the 10 and 15 balls also, while hiding behind the 6 ball its the right shot.. If we can't agree on that then whats the point of these.. So now then Scott is at the table and he is one of the best in the world. If the shot lays right wouldn't he shoot it in this situation? Are you going to say he doesn't see or recognize the option? So when you take into consideration the evidence if he chooses not to shoot the carom in this situation it must not lay as easy or natural as you think..

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