setting the record straight.

wincardona · Jan 11, 2009

fine line

fine line

wincardona said:
Your reasoning applies to getting spotted, of coarse it's tougher to win spotting another player on a 5x10, but we are talking about two players playing even. You think that the mover will be shooting easier shots than a shooter, I agree, but on a 4-1/2 x 9 the mover will put the shooter in more traps where there is very little chance to escape, opposed to the bigger table. Now you could be right when you say that a mover has a better game on a 5x10 but that's based on your experiences playing your style,not to many if any can play your style. Personally I think it's closer than you think. But if I was to be getting spotted I would rather play on a 5x10, or for that matter on a snooker table.

the tougher the table usually favors the player receiving the spot, but doesn't have to favor the mover against the shooter when there is no spot involved. If you were to play on the toughest tables in the world against a straight shooter, say like Parica, you would have a tougher game beating him because he shoots too straight,and he does understand the game. But if you put him on a table where you will get paid for your superior moving ability, then you have a bigger edge. So I guess theres a fine line there that's worthy of discussion.

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 11, 2009

wincardona said:
the tougher the table usually favors the player receiving the spot, but doesn't have to favor the mover against the shooter when there is no spot involved. If you were to play on the toughest tables in the world against a straight shooter, say like Parica, you would have a tougher game beating him because he shoots to straight,and he does understand the game. But if you put him on a table where you will get paid for your superior moving ability, then you have a bigger edge. So I guess theres a fine line there that's worthy of discussion.

IF some one wants to take the time and set up the same example on a 5by 10 as on a four and a half by nine then you can see how some of the setuations change.
And one of the biggest moves the will leave you on the end rail on a 5 by 10 were on a four and a half by nine you might not want to leave a good shooter in the same position. BUt on both tables in the same situation you will shot the same shots. And being traped on both tables could force the same mistake. Not that the balls are going to do that much different. But the long shots are tougher and the banks in the end game are longer and that will make it harder to make even a spot shot. I would like to ask everyone what percentage difference do you think thier is on a 5 by 10 to a four and a half by nine in moving and shooting. I no a 6 by 12 would make a big difference. But we will stick to 5by 10 and four and a half by nine.And I disagreed with this before the tougher table the better for the better player. Unless I disgribed before. PLaying nine ball gitting the breack on a fasy big pocket table will be a moster edge. WEre on a real tough slow table its a different ball game. BUt the tougher and more accurate player the tougher the table the better for him. because he will be shooting easier shots. And the tough table will not afect him like a less accurate player. If I would play parica I would want to play him on the toughest table. A easyer table would favor him. Even if we play even. I would not want to play any of those players like Efren Parica Buddy hall Ronnie or BUgs on a easy pocket table. I want to make it tougher for them . And a tough table will be tougher for them then me. Because of the shots we will both be gitting. And I would rather play them even on a tough table then getting a ball on a easy table. And I would rather take 9 to 8 then 8 to 7 because I want to make it as tough as I can for them. And thats what I did with Bugs I took 9 to 8 instead of 8 to 7. BUt you are correct when you say that does not aplie for all players. And you are answering correctly by saying that because it would be through in your case and the style of game you play. And it would favor the great Offensive shooters. BUt not the great movers. A tougher table will be better for them. BUt the 5 players that I mentioned the easier the table the better it would be giving out big spots. BUt safer players and deffensive players the tighter table will help them. THe better the shooter the easier the table will help him because if he is off just a little bit the ball will still go in. And the good shooters dont mis by much. And shooting into a soft table rail the ball will go in. Were on a tough table shooting hard the ball will hang up of miss. But things change acording to the players.Would you rather play on a easy or tough table or does it depend on who you are playing?

wincardona · Jan 11, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
WEll I will put it another way since I see were you are going. WE agree that I am a mover and not a shooter. And I would rather play bugs even on a 5 by 10 then on a fouer and a half by nine. Even though I will beat him to the first shot the five by ten table will be harder to run out. And I will start with a easier shot then he will so the 5 by ten will not have the same strength in shooting for me as the shooter. Because iI will start with a easier shot. And 9 to 8 is stronger for me on a 5 by 10 then on a four and a half by nine because it is harder for him to run 9 and out on a 5 by 10 then on a four and a half by nine. Does that show the 5 by 10 helps the mover. and a 4 and a half by nine favores the shooter. If you do not belive this then we just have da different opinion. If you were to play Efren 8 to 5 would you rather play him on a 5 by 10 or a four and a half by nine? Whats your choice. And WHY.

Artie, Bugs was a great banker and a very good ball runner, but he was never regarded as a great shotmaker, so you had to like playing Bugs on a 5x10 because you took his bank away from him on that table. When you talk about great shotmakers your talking about guy's like Parica,Varner,Reyes, Sigel,Hall, and other players of that status.So what these players lose in moving they make up for with their accuracy to come with the tough shot.

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 11, 2009

wincardona said:
Artie, Bugs was a great banker and a very good ball runner, but he was never regarded as a great shotmaker, so you had to like playing Bugs on a 5x10 because you took his bank away from him on that table. When you talk about great shotmakers your talking about guy's like Parica,Varner,Reyes, Sigel,Hall, and other players of that status.So what these players lose in moving they make up for with their accuracy to come with the tough shot.

Thats true all these players shot better then Bugs but when I talk about shooter I have to add to the list and that is Bugs banking ability was beter then these players. And when I talk about a good shooter you have to include banks in with the shooting and that is what made him so dangerous becuse you couldnt leave him a bank. And he would bank at a ball and run 8 and out. And other players wouldnt even shoot at the bank. And in one pocket a bank can be a big bail out shot. And Bugs did that better then any other player and he ran the balls as good as any player. He just didnt make the tough shoots as good as the greatest players. But he sure made up with it with the bank. And buddy hall was my favorite player for shooting the tough shot. And he would have been my choice for shooting my hadr shoots if I could pick a player. And Eddie Tayror and Bugs wopuld have been my pick to shoot the bank shoot for me. But that is what made Taylor and Bugs so dangerous playing one pocket was thier banking ability. And when you talk about shooting playing one pocket I have to include thier banking ability. Not just thier shooting. Yes I liked playing Bugs on a 5 by 10 way better then a four and a half by nine. And you try to take away thier strength weether its shooting or banking or moving you take away thier strength. If you can. Sometimes that cant be done and the run all over you and if the balls brack bad against you the can beat you 4 games in a rowe. THats why I dont like playing a great player 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7 . If the are shooting good and playing good and the balls are rolling for tem the will win the short sessions. But 6 games ahead in a long session is a nother story. And even the greatest shooters start to weekin and its tough work and a long hard grind. Its always hard when you beat a good player. Thier are no give mess. And one las thing that I have to say about my friend BUgs. He was a better player playing one pocket then these players you mentioned. And I rate him on top as far as heart goes. And that gives him a
edge in a tough situation. And all these players you mentioned shoot sraighter then bugs. BUt with everything else included Bugs was the best player out of these players. Because of his heart and banks and knowing the game. And everyone in thier prime Bugs would be the favoeite. And Bugs Ronnie and Efren would all be pickum games in thier prime. And I no you would take Efren over Ronnie and Bugs and i no that you would take Ronnie over bugs. Because you have so muck respect for Efren and Ronnie. And on a bad equipment I make Bugs the favoite and if the play with a stick out of the rack and bad equipment. I make Bugs 13 to 10 favorite over Efren or ronnie. And that is how I rate bugs and the greatest one pocket players. BUt everyone else will pick the Efrens and Ronnies. But I think even Freddy mite go along with BUgs. I dont no. But Bugs is my choice in his prime. And the coolest dressed pool player in life. I like wrighting once I start. Things just keep poping into my head. And all these players are great players you included and Taylor and Kelly and meny more. BUt the days of the 5 by 10 are gone and all we can talk about is what the events use to be. And I enjoyed those days. I think the left with the cowboys.

wincardona · Jan 12, 2009

Back And Forth

Back And Forth

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Thats true all these players shot better then Bugs but when I talk about shooter I have to add to the list and that is Bugs banking ability was beter then these players. And when I talk about a good shooter you have to include banks in with the shooting and that is what made him so dangerous becuse you couldnt leave him a bank. And he would bank at a ball and run 8 and out. And other players wouldnt even shoot at the bank. And in one pocket a bank can be a big bail out shot. And Bugs did that better then any other player and he ran the balls as good as any player. He just didnt make the tough shoots as good as the greatest players. But he sure made up with it with the bank. And buddy hall was my favorite player for shooting the tough shot. And he would have been my choice for shooting my hadr shoots if I could pick a player. And Eddie Tayror and Bugs wopuld have been my pick to shoot the bank shoot for me. But that is what made Taylor and Bugs so dangerous playing one pocket was thier banking ability. And when you talk about shooting playing one pocket I have to include thier banking ability. Not just thier shooting. Yes I liked playing Bugs on a 5 by 10 way better then a four and a half by nine. And you try to take away thier strength weether its shooting or banking or moving you take away thier strength. If you can. Sometimes that cant be done and the run all over you and if the balls brack bad against you the can beat you 4 games in a rowe. THats why I dont like playing a great player 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7 . If the are shooting good and playing good and the balls are rolling for tem the will win the short sessions. But 6 games ahead in a long session is a nother story. And even the greatest shooters start to weekin and its tough work and a long hard grind. Its always hard when you beat a good player. Thier are no give mess. And one las thing that I have to say about my friend BUgs. He was a better player playing one pocket then these players you mentioned. And I rate him on top as far as heart goes. And that gives him a
edge in a tough situation. And all these players you mentioned shoot sraighter then bugs. BUt with everything else included Bugs was the best player out of these players. Because of his heart and banks and knowing the game. And everyone in thier prime Bugs would be the favoeite. And Bugs Ronnie and Efren would all be pickum games in thier prime. And I no you would take Efren over Ronnie and Bugs and i no that you would take Ronnie over bugs. Because you have so muck respect for Efren and Ronnie. And on a bad equipment I make Bugs the favoite and if the play with a stick out of the rack and bad equipment. I make Bugs 13 to 10 favorite over Efren or ronnie. And that is how I rate bugs and the greatest one pocket players. BUt everyone else will pick the Efrens and Ronnies. But I think even Freddy mite go along with BUgs. I dont no. But Bugs is my choice in his prime. And the coolest dressed pool player in life. I like wrighting once I start. Things just keep poping into my head. And all these players are great players you included and Taylor and Kelly and meny more. BUt the days of the 5 by 10 are gone and all we can talk about is what the events use to be. And I enjoyed those days. I think the left with the cowboys.

Artie, I respect your opinion on many things, especially one pocket issues,and you could be right about the mover having a better game on a 5x10 opposed to a 4-1/2 x 9, but I think it is a lot closer than you think but since you have much more experience than me on the big table I will have to respect what you say and give you the benefit of the doubt. But when you say that Reyes,Ronnie, and Bugs are a pick em, thats where I disagree. I have played all three players many times and feel that Reyes is clearly the best player by far (at least a ball) over the world. Just like you having more experience on the big table, I have more experience playing ALL three of the players mentioned, many times.Reyes shoots straighter, runs balls better, handles the cue ball much better, and is very creative. Incidentally he kicks better, and shoots opposite hand better than them as well. So how are they supposed to beat him????

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 12, 2009

wincardona said:
Artie, I respect your opinion on many things, especially one pocket issues,and you could be right about the mover having a better game on a 5x10 opposed to a 4-1/2 x 9, but I think it is a lot closer than you think but since you have much more experience than me on the big table I will have to respect what you say and give you the benefit of the doubt. But when you say that Reyes,Ronnie, and Bugs are a pick em, thats where I disagree. I have played all three players many times and feel that Reyes is clearly the best player by far (at least a ball) over the world. Just like you having more experience on the big table, I have more experience playing ALL three of the players mentioned, many times.Reyes shoots straighter, runs balls better, handles the cue ball much better, and is very creative. Incidentally he kicks better, and shoots opposite hand better than them as well. So how are they supposed to beat him????

Your correct Efren shots straighter runs balls better hadales the cue ball better. But he is not more creative and he makes more mistakes then BUgs And Ronnie ANd he Doesnot bank better and he does not no one pockit better Ronnie gets the nod in that. And he does not shoot better one pocket shots then Ronnie or Bugs. And I have seen him go into stuppers playing one pocket. Like he is confused and doesnt no what he is doing and then he just shoots. And we are not qoustioning hes shooting ability and his cue ball control we could have spoted Ronnie the 7 ball both in thier prime. And he could have spoted Bugs the 6 ball in nine ball. And if I would have had my choice I would have bet on Efren playing nine ball. BUt if the played one pocket on the south side of Chicago on that equipment. Bugs would not only be a pick um game. Bugs would be the favorite. And shooting one pocket is different then shooting nine ball. And the shooting might not even show up that much. Banks could show up and be a more important factor. YOU DO NOT SHOOT SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET. THAT YOPU SHOOT PLAYING NINBALL. IN NINE BALL YOU SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND SHOOTING IS A BIG FACTOR> WERE PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU DO NOT SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND YOUR SHOTS ARE MORE SELECTIVE THEN IN NINE BALL.YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE REAL HARD SHOOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET LIKE YOU DO IN NINEBALL. NINEBALL IS A RUN OUT GAME. ONE SHOT YOUR OUT BUT IN ONE POCKET THATS NOT TRUE. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT THIER ARE NOT MENY AND OUTS. AND PLAYING NINEBALL IF YOU HAVE A SHOT YOU SHOT AT THAT SHOT. BUT PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN SHOOT IT. AND RONNIE AND BUGS THINK AND PLAY ONE POCKET BETTER THEN EFREN. AND ALL THREE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THIER PRIME IF THE GOT A SHOT WOULD RUN OUT. AND THE END GAME WOULD HELP BUGS WITH HIS BANKING. AND A LOT OF SHOTS ARE FREE PLAYING ONE POCKET WERE IN NINE BALL YOU DONT HAVE HARDLY ANY FREE SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND SHOT SELECTIONS ARE MORE IMPORTANT PLAYING ONE POCKET> AND EFREN CAN DO MORE WITH THE CUE BALL AND OBJECT BALLS. BUT HE DOES NOT PLAY THE GAME BETTER THEN BUGS OR RONNIE. AND RONNIE AND BUGS PLAY AS AGGRESIVE AS EFREN IF NOT BETTER. AND YOU CANNOT COMPAIR EFREN TO BUGS AND RONNIE BECAUSE THE DIDNT PLAY EACH OTHER IN THIER PRIME. AND THIER WERE MORE BETTER ONE POCKET PLAYERS THEN THEN TODAY. YOU DO NOT SHOOT ALL THOSE HARD SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET THAT YOU SHOT PLAYING ONE POCKET. AND YOU ARE SENTAMENTAL TWORDS EFREN WITCH IS OK AND YOU HAVE THE MOST RESPECT FOR EFREN TO BECAUSE HE IS THE BETTER SHOOTER . I AM MORE SENTAMENTAL ABOUT BUGS BECAUSE HE WAS MY FRIEND BUT THAT DOSE NOT COME INTO PLAY WITH ME WHEN I EVALUATE THIER GAME. AND BUGS ON BAD EQUIPMENT WITH A HOUS CUE IS THE FAVORITE OVER RONNIE AND EFREN. AND WHO KNOWES HOW MUCH BETTER BUGS WOULD HAVE PLAYED IF HE WOULD HAVE PLAYED WITH HIS OWN STICK ALL THE TIME. WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD YOU HAVE HAD IF BUGS GOT TO PLAY WITH YOUR STICK AND YOU HAD TO PLAY WITH HIS. I NI IF I WOULD HAVE HAD TO PLAY WITH BUGS STICK AND HE GOT TO PLAY WITH MY STICK I WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED. BUGS WAS THE MOST FEARED PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY EVEN IN DETROITE. AND ONE POCKET SHOTS ARE DIFFERENT SHOTS TEN IN GAMES WERE YOU SHOOT TOUGH SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND THE GREAT SHOOTMAKERS DO NOT HAVE THE BIG SHOOTINH EDGE IN ONE POCKET THAT THE HAVE PLAYING NINE BALL. AND ITS HARD TO JUST STAY IN STROCK PLAYING ONE POCKET BECAUSE YOU SPEND TIME SHOOTING DIFFERENT SHOTS. NOT LIKE IN NINE BALL WERE YOU SPEND TIME JUST POCKITING BALLS. AND YOU CAN GET IN STROCK AND STAY IN STROCK PLAYING NINEBALL> BUT ONE POCKET DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY AND YOU MIGHT WAITE A WHILE BEFORE YOU GET A SHOT. AND I LOVED PLAYING GOOD SHOOTER BECAUSE I NEW WHAT THE WERE GOING TO DO. AND THIER SHOOTING ABILITY GETS WORSE. WHEN YOU PLAYED TOBY WAS IT A FINESSE AND MOVERS TYPE OF GAME OR WAS IT A SHOOING GAME> I BROUGHT THIS UP SO YOU COULD THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GAME. AND WHAT KIND OF SHOTS YOU WERE SHOOTING. I AM SURE WHEN YOU PLAY EFREN YOU ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT HIM OUT MOVING YOU. BUT YOU WILL BE TINKING IF YOU GIVE HIM A SHOT HE WILL RUN OUT. BUT ITS NOT LIKE NINE BALL WERE HE GETS TO SHOT. YOU CAN KEEP HIM TIED UP WITH THE CORRECT MOVES THAT HE DOES NOT NO. AND YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HIS FIRE POWER. AND YOU WOULD BE THE PLAYER RUNNING OUT. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TWO TO ONE IN A LONG SESSION WHEN I WAS PLAYING MY BEST THAT I WOULD RUN MORE EIGHT AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BUT IF WE PLAYED NINE BALL A LONG SESSION IT WOULD BE A OUT PRICE> HE WOULD BE A MONSTER FAVOEITE. BUT IF HE PLAYES SCOTT FROST> IWOULD TAKE 3 TO 2 SCOTT FROST RUNNS MORE * AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BECAUSE OF HOW HE PLAYS. AND EFREN SHOOTS BETTER IN NINE BALL THEN SCOTT FROST. BUT NOT IN ONE POCKET. ITS A DIFFERENT STYLE AND EFREN IS MORE OF A DEFFENSIVE PLAYER TEN SCOTT FROST. THATS MY OPINION> THE ONLY WAY TO SEE IS IF WE HAVE TAPS FROM WHEN THE PLAYED. SCOTT OFFENSIVE SHOT SELECTIONS ARE BETTER THEN EFFREN. AND I HOPE I EXPLAINED WHY I WOULD MAKE RONNIE BUGS AND EFREN A PICK GAME. IF THE COULD PLAY IN THIER PRIME. NATURALY I WOULD NOT TAKE PICKUM ON THE game because I no efren is the pepoles choice and I no I could get 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 and Ronnie would be the peoples secon choice. AND WITCH EVER PLAYERS PLAYED EACH OTHER 3 GAMES OUT OF 5 any player could win. It would be as tough as it gets. AND I am being honest. IF I COULDNT GET 3 TO 2 I wouldnt bet. BUT the shooting does not show up as much playing one pocket as in other games. ANd if you no how to play coorectly you can even lower thier shooting percentage. BY keeping the locked up and not giving them any shots. And to do that you have to no what you are doing and what the are going to do. WHAT THE ARE GOING TO DO IS THE KEY. NOT what you are going to do. YOu no what you are going to do. YOU have to figure out wat the are going to do ahead of time. I just gave you a million dollar answer. ITS only because I like you. WRight this down a think about what I said. THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANS. THIS IS MY GIFT TO BILLY AND ALL THE ONE POCKET PLAYERS. EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT THAT DONT LIKE ME A HOLE LOT. BUT IF YOU LEARN THIS YOU WILL LIKE ME JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 12, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Your correct Efren shots straighter runs balls better hadales the cue ball better. But he is not more creative and he makes more mistakes then BUgs And Ronnie ANd he Doesnot bank better and he does not no one pockit better Ronnie gets the nod in that. And he does not shoot better one pocket shots then Ronnie or Bugs. And I have seen him go into stuppers playing one pocket. Like he is confused and doesnt no what he is doing and then he just shoots. And we are not qoustioning hes shooting ability and his cue ball control we could have spoted Ronnie the 7 ball both in thier prime. And he could have spoted Bugs the 6 ball in nine ball. And if I would have had my choice I would have bet on Efren playing nine ball. BUt if the played one pocket on the south side of Chicago on that equipment. Bugs would not only be a pick um game. Bugs would be the favorite. And shooting one pocket is different then shooting nine ball. And the shooting might not even show up that much. Banks could show up and be a more important factor. YOU DO NOT SHOOT SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET. THAT YOPU SHOOT PLAYING NINBALL. IN NINE BALL YOU SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND SHOOTING IS A BIG FACTOR> WERE PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU DO NOT SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND YOUR SHOTS ARE MORE SELECTIVE THEN IN NINE BALL.YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE REAL HARD SHOOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET LIKE YOU DO IN NINEBALL. NINEBALL IS A RUN OUT GAME. ONE SHOT YOUR OUT BUT IN ONE POCKET THATS NOT TRUE. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT THIER ARE NOT MENY AND OUTS. AND PLAYING NINEBALL IF YOU HAVE A SHOT YOU SHOT AT THAT SHOT. BUT PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN SHOOT IT. AND RONNIE AND BUGS THINK AND PLAY ONE POCKET BETTER THEN EFREN. AND ALL THREE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THIER PRIME IF THE GOT A SHOT WOULD RUN OUT. AND THE END GAME WOULD HELP BUGS WITH HIS BANKING. AND A LOT OF SHOTS ARE FREE PLAYING ONE POCKET WERE IN NINE BALL YOU DONT HAVE HARDLY ANY FREE SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND SHOT SELECTIONS ARE MORE IMPORTANT PLAYING ONE POCKET> AND EFREN CAN DO MORE WITH THE CUE BALL AND OBJECT BALLS. BUT HE DOES NOT PLAY THE GAME BETTER THEN BUGS OR RONNIE. AND RONNIE AND BUGS PLAY AS AGGRESIVE AS EFREN IF NOT BETTER. AND YOU CANNOT COMPAIR EFREN TO BUGS AND RONNIE BECAUSE THE DIDNT PLAY EACH OTHER IN THIER PRIME. AND THIER WERE MORE BETTER ONE POCKET PLAYERS THEN THEN TODAY. YOU DO NOT SHOOT ALL THOSE HARD SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET THAT YOU SHOT PLAYING ONE POCKET. AND YOU ARE SENTAMENTAL TWORDS EFREN WITCH IS OK AND YOU HAVE THE MOST RESPECT FOR EFREN TO BECAUSE HE IS THE BETTER SHOOTER . I AM MORE SENTAMENTAL ABOUT BUGS BECAUSE HE WAS MY FRIEND BUT THAT DOSE NOT COME INTO PLAY WITH ME WHEN I EVALUATE THIER GAME. AND BUGS ON BAD EQUIPMENT WITH A HOUS CUE IS THE FAVORITE OVER RONNIE AND EFREN. AND WHO KNOWES HOW MUCH BETTER BUGS WOULD HAVE PLAYED IF HE WOULD HAVE PLAYED WITH HIS OWN STICK ALL THE TIME. WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD YOU HAVE HAD IF BUGS GOT TO PLAY WITH YOUR STICK AND YOU HAD TO PLAY WITH HIS. I NI IF I WOULD HAVE HAD TO PLAY WITH BUGS STICK AND HE GOT TO PLAY WITH MY STICK I WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED. BUGS WAS THE MOST FEARED PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY EVEN IN DETROITE. AND ONE POCKET SHOTS ARE DIFFERENT SHOTS TEN IN GAMES WERE YOU SHOOT TOUGH SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND THE GREAT SHOOTMAKERS DO NOT HAVE THE BIG SHOOTINH EDGE IN ONE POCKET THAT THE HAVE PLAYING NINE BALL. AND ITS HARD TO JUST STAY IN STROCK PLAYING ONE POCKET BECAUSE YOU SPEND TIME SHOOTING DIFFERENT SHOTS. NOT LIKE IN NINE BALL WERE YOU SPEND TIME JUST POCKITING BALLS. AND YOU CAN GET IN STROCK AND STAY IN STROCK PLAYING NINEBALL> BUT ONE POCKET DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY AND YOU MIGHT WAITE A WHILE BEFORE YOU GET A SHOT. AND I LOVED PLAYING GOOD SHOOTER BECAUSE I NEW WHAT THE WERE GOING TO DO. AND THIER SHOOTING ABILITY GETS WORSE. WHEN YOU PLAYED TOBY WAS IT A FINESSE AND MOVERS TYPE OF GAME OR WAS IT A SHOOING GAME> I BROUGHT THIS UP SO YOU COULD THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GAME. AND WHAT KIND OF SHOTS YOU WERE SHOOTING. I AM SURE WHEN YOU PLAY EFREN YOU ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT HIM OUT MOVING YOU. BUT YOU WILL BE TINKING IF YOU GIVE HIM A SHOT HE WILL RUN OUT. BUT ITS NOT LIKE NINE BALL WERE HE GETS TO SHOT. YOU CAN KEEP HIM TIED UP WITH THE CORRECT MOVES THAT HE DOES NOT NO. AND YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HIS FIRE POWER. AND YOU WOULD BE THE PLAYER RUNNING OUT. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TWO TO ONE IN A LONG SESSION WHEN I WAS PLAYING MY BEST THAT I WOULD RUN MORE EIGHT AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BUT IF WE PLAYED NINE BALL A LONG SESSION IT WOULD BE A OUT PRICE> HE WOULD BE A MONSTER FAVOEITE. BUT IF HE PLAYES SCOTT FROST> IWOULD TAKE 3 TO 2 SCOTT FROST RUNNS MORE * AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BECAUSE OF HOW HE PLAYS. AND EFREN SHOOTS BETTER IN NINE BALL THEN SCOTT FROST. BUT NOT IN ONE POCKET. ITS A DIFFERENT STYLE AND EFREN IS MORE OF A DEFFENSIVE PLAYER TEN SCOTT FROST. THATS MY OPINION> THE ONLY WAY TO SEE IS IF WE HAVE TAPS FROM WHEN THE PLAYED. SCOTT OFFENSIVE SHOT SELECTIONS ARE BETTER THEN EFFREN. AND I HOPE I EXPLAINED WHY I WOULD MAKE RONNIE BUGS AND EFREN A PICK GAME. IF THE COULD PLAY IN THIER PRIME. NATURALY I WOULD NOT TAKE PICKUM ON THE game because I no efren is the pepoles choice and I no I could get 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 and Ronnie would be the peoples secon choice. AND WITCH EVER PLAYERS PLAYED EACH OTHER 3 GAMES OUT OF 5 any player could win. It would be as tough as it gets. AND I am being honest. IF I COULDNT GET 3 TO 2 I wouldnt bet. BUT the shooting does not show up as much playing one pocket as in other games. ANd if you no how to play coorectly you can even lower thier shooting percentage. BY keeping the locked up and not giving them any shots. And to do that you have to no what you are doing and what the are going to do. WHAT THE ARE GOING TO DO IS THE KEY. NOT what you are going to do. YOu no what you are going to do. YOU have to figure out wat the are going to do ahead of time. I just gave you a million dollar answer. ITS only because I like you. WRight this down a think about what I said. THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANS. THIS IS MY GIFT TO BILLY AND ALL THE ONE POCKET PLAYERS. EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT THAT DONT LIKE ME A HOLE LOT. BUT IF YOU LEARN THIS YOU WILL LIKE ME JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

THE CANT LOCK YOU UP FOR WRIGHTING TO MUCH AND GIVE YOU TIME CAN THE?

wincardona · Jan 12, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
THE CANT LOCK YOU UP FOR WRIGHTING TO MUCH AND GIVE YOU TIME CAN THE?

Your a funny guy,there's nothing you can say that's going to covince me that any of those players, or any other player could of beaten Reyes playing one pocket. You never played Reyes and you really don't know how well he plays. He spotted Scott 10 to 7 and won, he gave Joyner 8 to 7 and stole his money, he also gave Steve Cook 10 to 8 in Tampa and stole his money as well. He also gave Allen Hopkins 9 to 8 and in NJ. and Hopkins didn't have a chance. No one has ever beaten Reyes playing one pocket, and they wouldn't of either. Reyes plays a full ball better than any player I have ever known. Ronnie gave me 10 to 8 playing one pocket when I didn't understand the game that well, and it was a tough game for both players.Reyes could of given me 10 to 7 and won easily. It's a shame that Reye's is declining and his health is in question, but he still is the best player alive today playing one pocket. Thanks for the debate, I have to leave for the day, be back later.

CaliRed · Jan 12, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Your correct Efren shots straighter runs balls better hadales the cue ball better. But he is not more creative and he makes more mistakes then BUgs And Ronnie ANd he Doesnot bank better and he does not no one pockit better Ronnie gets the nod in that.

And he does not shoot better one pocket shots then Ronnie or Bugs. And I have seen him go into stuppers playing one pocket. Like he is confused and doesnt no what he is doing and then he just shoots. And we are not qoustioning hes shooting ability and his cue ball control we could have spoted Ronnie the 7 ball both in thier prime. And he could have spoted Bugs the 6 ball in nine ball.

And if I would have had my choice I would have bet on Efren playing nine ball. BUt if the played one pocket on the south side of Chicago on that equipment. Bugs would not only be a pick um game. Bugs would be the favorite. And shooting one pocket is different then shooting nine ball. And the shooting might not even show up that much. Banks could show up and be a more important factor.

YOU DO NOT SHOOT SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET. THAT YOPU SHOOT PLAYING NINBALL. IN NINE BALL YOU SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND SHOOTING IS A BIG FACTOR> WERE PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU DO NOT SHOOT AT EVERYTHING AND YOUR SHOTS ARE MORE SELECTIVE THEN IN NINE BALL.YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE REAL HARD SHOOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET LIKE YOU DO IN NINEBALL.

NINEBALL IS A RUN OUT GAME. ONE SHOT YOUR OUT BUT IN ONE POCKET THATS NOT TRUE. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT THIER ARE NOT MENY AND OUTS. AND PLAYING NINEBALL IF YOU HAVE A SHOT YOU SHOT AT THAT SHOT. BUT PLAYING ONE POCKET YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN SHOOT IT. AND RONNIE AND BUGS THINK AND PLAY ONE POCKET BETTER THEN EFREN. AND ALL THREE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THIER PRIME IF THE GOT A SHOT WOULD RUN OUT. AND THE END GAME WOULD HELP BUGS WITH HIS BANKING.

AND A LOT OF SHOTS ARE FREE PLAYING ONE POCKET WERE IN NINE BALL YOU DONT HAVE HARDLY ANY FREE SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND SHOT SELECTIONS ARE MORE IMPORTANT PLAYING ONE POCKET> AND EFREN CAN DO MORE WITH THE CUE BALL AND OBJECT BALLS. BUT HE DOES NOT PLAY THE GAME BETTER THEN BUGS OR RONNIE. AND RONNIE AND BUGS PLAY AS AGGRESIVE AS EFREN IF NOT BETTER. AND YOU CANNOT COMPAIR EFREN TO BUGS AND RONNIE BECAUSE THE DIDNT PLAY EACH OTHER IN THIER PRIME.

AND THIER WERE MORE BETTER ONE POCKET PLAYERS THEN THEN TODAY. YOU DO NOT SHOOT ALL THOSE HARD SHOTS PLAYING ONE POCKET THAT YOU SHOT PLAYING ONE POCKET. AND YOU ARE SENTAMENTAL TWORDS EFREN WITCH IS OK AND YOU HAVE THE MOST RESPECT FOR EFREN TO BECAUSE HE IS THE BETTER SHOOTER . I AM MORE SENTAMENTAL ABOUT BUGS BECAUSE HE WAS MY FRIEND BUT THAT DOSE NOT COME INTO PLAY WITH ME WHEN I EVALUATE THIER GAME.

AND BUGS ON BAD EQUIPMENT WITH A HOUS CUE IS THE FAVORITE OVER RONNIE AND EFREN. AND WHO KNOWES HOW MUCH BETTER BUGS WOULD HAVE PLAYED IF HE WOULD HAVE PLAYED WITH HIS OWN STICK ALL THE TIME. WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD YOU HAVE HAD IF BUGS GOT TO PLAY WITH YOUR STICK AND YOU HAD TO PLAY WITH HIS. I NI IF I WOULD HAVE HAD TO PLAY WITH BUGS STICK AND HE GOT TO PLAY WITH MY STICK I WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED.

BUGS WAS THE MOST FEARED PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY EVEN IN DETROITE. AND ONE POCKET SHOTS ARE DIFFERENT SHOTS TEN IN GAMES WERE YOU SHOOT TOUGH SHOTS TO RUN OUT. AND THE GREAT SHOOTMAKERS DO NOT HAVE THE BIG SHOOTINH EDGE IN ONE POCKET THAT THE HAVE PLAYING NINE BALL. AND ITS HARD TO JUST STAY IN STROCK PLAYING ONE POCKET BECAUSE YOU SPEND TIME SHOOTING DIFFERENT SHOTS. NOT LIKE IN NINE BALL WERE YOU SPEND TIME JUST POCKITING BALLS.

AND YOU CAN GET IN STROCK AND STAY IN STROCK PLAYING NINEBALL> BUT ONE POCKET DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY AND YOU MIGHT WAITE A WHILE BEFORE YOU GET A SHOT. AND I LOVED PLAYING GOOD SHOOTER BECAUSE I NEW WHAT THE WERE GOING TO DO. AND THIER SHOOTING ABILITY GETS WORSE. WHEN YOU PLAYED TOBY WAS IT A FINESSE AND MOVERS TYPE OF GAME OR WAS IT A SHOOING GAME>

I BROUGHT THIS UP SO YOU COULD THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GAME. AND WHAT KIND OF SHOTS YOU WERE SHOOTING. I AM SURE WHEN YOU PLAY EFREN YOU ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT HIM OUT MOVING YOU. BUT YOU WILL BE TINKING IF YOU GIVE HIM A SHOT HE WILL RUN OUT. BUT ITS NOT LIKE NINE BALL WERE HE GETS TO SHOT. YOU CAN KEEP HIM TIED UP WITH THE CORRECT MOVES THAT HE DOES NOT NO. AND YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HIS FIRE POWER.

AND YOU WOULD BE THE PLAYER RUNNING OUT. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TWO TO ONE IN A LONG SESSION WHEN I WAS PLAYING MY BEST THAT I WOULD RUN MORE EIGHT AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BUT IF WE PLAYED NINE BALL A LONG SESSION IT WOULD BE A OUT PRICE> HE WOULD BE A MONSTER FAVOEITE. BUT IF HE PLAYES SCOTT FROST> IWOULD TAKE 3 TO 2 SCOTT FROST RUNNS MORE * AND OUTS THEN EFREN. BECAUSE OF HOW HE PLAYS. AND EFREN SHOOTS BETTER IN NINE BALL THEN SCOTT FROST. BUT NOT IN ONE POCKET.

ITS A DIFFERENT STYLE AND EFREN IS MORE OF A DEFFENSIVE PLAYER TEN SCOTT FROST. THATS MY OPINION> THE ONLY WAY TO SEE IS IF WE HAVE TAPS FROM WHEN THE PLAYED. SCOTT OFFENSIVE SHOT SELECTIONS ARE BETTER THEN EFFREN. AND I HOPE I EXPLAINED WHY I WOULD MAKE RONNIE BUGS AND EFREN A PICK GAME. IF THE COULD PLAY IN THIER PRIME.

NATURALY I WOULD NOT TAKE PICKUM ON THE game because I no efren is the pepoles choice and I no I could get 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 and Ronnie would be the peoples secon choice. AND WITCH EVER PLAYERS PLAYED EACH OTHER 3 GAMES OUT OF 5 any player could win. It would be as tough as it gets. AND I am being honest. IF I COULDNT GET 3 TO 2 I wouldnt bet.

BUT the shooting does not show up as much playing one pocket as in other games. ANd if you no how to play coorectly you can even lower thier shooting percentage. BY keeping the locked up and not giving them any shots. And to do that you have to no what you are doing and what the are going to do. WHAT THE ARE GOING TO DO IS THE KEY. NOT what you are going to do. YOu no what you are going to do.

YOU have to figure out wat the are going to do ahead of time. I just gave you a million dollar answer. ITS only because I like you. WRight this down a think about what I said. THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANS. THIS IS MY GIFT TO BILLY AND ALL THE ONE POCKET PLAYERS. EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT THAT DONT LIKE ME A HOLE LOT. BUT IF YOU LEARN THIS YOU WILL LIKE ME JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

Artie,

I'm not a grammer cop or a spelling cop BUT is there anyway you can hit your ENTER key every 4 or 5 lines? Just type in 4 or 5 lines and hit your ENTER key two times. It doesn't even matter where you do it.

You would have to agree yourself, that reading what you wrote above (where I randomly put a paragraph break in) is a lot easier to read then the original.

I'm just trying to help whoever wants to read your posts. If you want to reach as many people as possible, you can't scare them away with 2 many words in one big block. You got to give them a chance to find where they left off.

Example: I see a big, huge post like the one you wrote without the spaces. I take a deep breath and decide to try and tackle it. Say, I laugh or sneeze and my eyes close for a second... I'll have to spend several minutes finding out where I left off.

....Or if someone comes in my office and I have to quick hide that I'm reading Onepocket.org on company time

... you get the point.

Now BACK TO THE DEBATE on setting the record straight or the 10 footer discussion.

philwelch · Jan 12, 2009

wincardona said:
Your a funny guy,there's nothing you can say that's going to covince me that any of those players, or any other player could of beaten Reyes playing one pocket. You never played Reyes and you really don't know how well he plays. He spotted Scott 10 to 7 and won, he gave Joyner 8 to 7 and stole his money, he also gave Steve Cook 10 to 8 in Tampa and stole his money as well. He also gave Allen Hopkins 9 to 8 and in NJ. and Hopkins didn't have a chance. No one has ever beaten Reyes playing one pocket, and they wouldn't of either. Reyes plays a full ball better than any player I have ever known. Ronnie gave me 10 to 8 playing one pocket when I didn't understand the game that well, and it was a tough game for both players.Reyes could of given me 10 to 7 and won easily. It's a shame that Reye's is declining and his health is in question, but he still is the best player alive today playing one pocket. Thanks for the debate, I have to leave for the day, be back later.

Here's my take on Reyes. I was there when Efren played in Chicago against Freddy, Bugs, Bill I. and the one thing that stood out the most to me was his creativeness. I've seen many great one pocket players including Ronnie Allen, Scott Frost, Steve Cook, etc. but Efren at so many times executed shots I couldn't have foreseen. Artie, when you say Efren creativity isn't #1 are you saying Ronnie Allen had more creativity? If so, I disagree but only to the extent of the games i've seen them both play. I also agree with Billy that Efren shoots straighter and runs out like noone else on earth but, that takes a backseat to his creative shot choices. IMO Phil

Cowboy Dennis · Jan 12, 2009

Writing too much

Writing too much

Artie Bodendorfer said:
THE CANT LOCK YOU UP FOR WRIGHTING TO MUCH AND GIVE YOU TIME CAN THE?

No Artie, they cannot lock you up for writing too much. But they can lock you up for using all capitals in most of your post. Dr. Jack has a cure for that. (just kidding).

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 12, 2009

philwelch said:
Here's my take on Reyes. I was there when Efren played in Chicago against Freddy, Bugs, Bill I. and the one thing that stood out the most to me was his creativeness. I've seen many great one pocket players including Ronnie Allen, Scott Frost, Steve Cook, etc. but Efren at so many times executed shots I couldn't have foreseen. Artie, when you say Efren creativity isn't #1 are you saying Ronnie Allen had more creativity? If so, I disagree but only to the extent of the games i've seen them both play. I also agree with Billy that Efren shoots straighter and runs out like noone else on earth but, that takes a backseat to his creative shot choices. IMO Phil

I also said that efren shoots beter and has better cue ball control. But he does not play beter one pocket the bugs or Ronnie and ronie played more aggressive one p[ocket the efren and sop did bugs. And all these players that you said played efren were 10 and 15 years older then efren. I would like to see some of the exampales of efrens great moves. And can you explain to me whay he shot what he shot. And why he selected those shots. I am trying to understand what is being said. And I do not want to just her that he was more creative. WHAT MADE HIM MORE CREATIVE. I HAVE TO SEE EXAMPALES OF WHAT HE DID AND WHY. WE all no he was the better shooter and he had the best cueball control. But it comes down to what shots he shot and why. CAn he explain ehy he shot what he shot and show me? Ronnie and Bugs new how to play one pocket. I dont no if Efren realy knowes. And his shooting skill and cue ball control is carrying him. And I seen himact like he was in totale confusion after he sht some shots. Like he didnt no why he shot the shot. Or what was going on. Im sure you have seen that to.He has done it more then once. Efren is a great shooter and a great cue ball control and that is one of his greatest asets. Put his shot selection and choices are not the best. And I like Ronnie and bugs one pocket better in thier prime. And the same with Parica. THe shot a lot of carom shots and kiss shots but the more solid style of one pocket was Ronnie and Bugs. NOt Efren and Rayes. And Parica beat Efren more times in the tournaments playing him then Efrin beat him. And I do not like thier style of one pocket. Scott Frost Gabe Owens Cliff Jointer and tony all play a better game of one pocket. BUt efren and Parica run out better. BUT its whatever style you like best. And Bugs played a different style then them because of his banking ability. BUt if you watch one pocket games you will see that the do not shoot a lot of hard shots. I repeat the do not shot a lot of hard shots. And a lot of those shots are free. ONe pocket is mostly a game about moving balls around. And Ronie and bugs played more creative shote then Efren. But I no people will diagree with that. But all you can do is watch a tape and see what the did. And you will not be able to see the games and aggressive moves that Ronnie and EFren played when the were in thier prime because thier are no DVDS or CDS or TAps of Ronnie or Bugs playing in thier prime. BUt thier are meny taps and DVDS and CDS on EFren in his prime. ANd todays players will have even more TAPS AND DVD AND CDS. Its a same that thier arent any of Bugs and Ronnie.
BUt thier is about 15 years difference between BUGS AND RONNIE and EFREN. And thats like night and day. To be able to say that one player is more creative you have to explain what he does and why. And not just say he is more creative. THier has to be proof or evedence. NOt just people saying that he was more creative. THats just words. Showeing what makes him more creative is what you have to show. NOt just words. WE no Efren is the favorite player off the people. Just like Tiger Woods or the Pittsburg Steelers. I would like for someone to explain and show me what he did so I can see what he does to make him more creative. BUt people just saying it does not make it true. And he might be shooting the wrong shot all together. And IF I can watch a tape. I can point out the mistakes and the wrong shots. And I can explain Why. And point out what he should no that he doesnt no. And I am not talking about his shooting or execution. Because we all no everyone misses. I am talking about his shot selections. And why the are not the correct shot selection. Or the best percentage shot. And He will shoot different shots in a one pocket game then SCott FRost. And what you havbe to learn Whoes shot is better and why. WE just cant say because he executies better then Scott Fost. Scott Frose Executies as good as EFren playing one pocket. And he is more creative then Efren. And he makes more mistakes then Efren because of the shots he chooses. BUt I think I gave enough information about the different great players and thier thinking. Efren is a Magician not because of his choices BUt because of his great execution in a tough situation. His talent as a shooter is the best I have ever seen. AND THAT IS WHAT GETS HIM OUT OF TROBLE AND HELPS HIM WIN. AND HE EXECUTES IN WIN LOOSE SITUATIONS. he IS A GREAT PLAYER. BUT I LIKE rONNIE AND BUGS AND SCOTT Frosts and GAB Owens And CLiff Jointers one pocket game better. THat does not mean that the will win. BUt like I said anyone can win 3 out of 5.

Cowboy Dennis · Jan 12, 2009

Efren Reyes

Efren Reyes

I'm only 50 yrs. old and I pretty much hung around less than 10 poolrooms. I have not seen all of the greatest players through history, and neither have most of us. But the one thing that I do feel safe in saying is that Efren Reyes is the greatest player that ever lived in the Milky Way galaxy. He constantly does things that I cannot even imagine in my dreams. And he does them consistently. And he's been doing it for years. He does things that the commentators of his matches do not even mention beforehand, because the things he does are not even in the realm of possibility for most people to consider. Until someone from Andromeda comes along, I think we are all seeing history in the making by watching Efren's fantastic abilities.

lfigueroa · Jan 12, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
BUt like I said anyone can win 3 out of 5.

Well, maybe. But not "anyone" can do that over and over... except for maybe *one* guy.

Just for grins, look at the DCC results for the past 10 years and you'll see that *one* guy can. Out of average fields of 300-400 players, that included a boatload of champions...

Efren Reyes' 1pocket finishes:

1st 1999
1st 2004
1st 2005
1st 2006
1st 2007

5 out of 10 years. Short races -- "3 out of 5." What do your odds making skills have to say about them apples?

I have no clue how many 2nd, 3rds, or whatevers, he's had. All I know is that while we all want to believe that the players of *our* former eras were the best (somewhat obviously, by association, that makes other players of that era so much the better

, things change. The competition gets better, the quality of play rises, training gets more intense, techniques and philosophies get refined, and players draw upon what has gone before to build a better game.

Soooo..., IMO, Efren is, BY FAR, the best ever.

Back to you, Artie

Lou Figueroa

philwelch · Jan 12, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
I also said that efren shoots beter and has better cue ball control. But he does not play beter one pocket the bugs or Ronnie and ronie played more aggressive one p[ocket the efren and sop did bugs. And all these players that you said played efren were 10 and 15 years older then efren. I would like to see some of the exampales of efrens great moves. And can you explain to me whay he shot what he shot. And why he selected those shots. I am trying to understand what is being said. And I do not want to just her that he was more creative. WHAT MADE HIM MORE CREATIVE. I HAVE TO SEE EXAMPALES OF WHAT HE DID AND WHY. WE all no he was the better shooter and he had the best cueball control. But it comes down to what shots he shot and why. CAn he explain ehy he shot what he shot and show me? Ronnie and Bugs new how to play one pocket. I dont no if Efren realy knowes. And his shooting skill and cue ball control is carrying him. And I seen himact like he was in totale confusion after he sht some shots. Like he didnt no why he shot the shot. Or what was going on. Im sure you have seen that to.He has done it more then once. Efren is a great shooter and a great cue ball control and that is one of his greatest asets. Put his shot selection and choices are not the best. And I like Ronnie and bugs one pocket better in thier prime. And the same with Parica. THe shot a lot of carom shots and kiss shots but the more solid style of one pocket was Ronnie and Bugs. NOt Efren and Rayes. And Parica beat Efren more times in the tournaments playing him then Efrin beat him. And I do not like thier style of one pocket. Scott Frost Gabe Owens Cliff Jointer and tony all play a better game of one pocket. BUt efren and Parica run out better. BUT its whatever style you like best. And Bugs played a different style then them because of his banking ability. BUt if you watch one pocket games you will see that the do not shoot a lot of hard shots. I repeat the do not shot a lot of hard shots. And a lot of those shots are free. ONe pocket is mostly a game about moving balls around. And Ronie and bugs played more creative shote then Efren. But I no people will diagree with that. But all you can do is watch a tape and see what the did. And you will not be able to see the games and aggressive moves that Ronnie and EFren played when the were in thier prime because thier are no DVDS or CDS or TAps of Ronnie or Bugs playing in thier prime. BUt thier are meny taps and DVDS and CDS on EFren in his prime. ANd todays players will have even more TAPS AND DVD AND CDS. Its a same that thier arent any of Bugs and Ronnie.
BUt thier is about 15 years difference between BUGS AND RONNIE and EFREN. And thats like night and day. To be able to say that one player is more creative you have to explain what he does and why. And not just say he is more creative. THier has to be proof or evedence. NOt just people saying that he was more creative. THats just words. Showeing what makes him more creative is what you have to show. NOt just words. WE no Efren is the favorite player off the people. Just like Tiger Woods or the Pittsburg Steelers. I would like for someone to explain and show me what he did so I can see what he does to make him more creative. BUt people just saying it does not make it true. And he might be shooting the wrong shot all together. And IF I can watch a tape. I can point out the mistakes and the wrong shots. And I can explain Why. And point out what he should no that he doesnt no. And I am not talking about his shooting or execution. Because we all no everyone misses. I am talking about his shot selections. And why the are not the correct shot selection. Or the best percentage shot. And He will shoot different shots in a one pocket game then SCott FRost. And what you havbe to learn Whoes shot is better and why. WE just cant say because he executies better then Scott Fost. Scott Frose Executies as good as EFren playing one pocket. And he is more creative then Efren. And he makes more mistakes then Efren because of the shots he chooses. BUt I think I gave enough information about the different great players and thier thinking. Efren is a Magician not because of his choices BUt because of his great execution in a tough situation. His talent as a shooter is the best I have ever seen. AND THAT IS WHAT GETS HIM OUT OF TROBLE AND HELPS HIM WIN. AND HE EXECUTES IN WIN LOOSE SITUATIONS. he IS A GREAT PLAYER. BUT I LIKE rONNIE AND BUGS AND SCOTT Frosts and GAB Owens And CLiff Jointers one pocket game better. THat does not mean that the will win. BUt like I said anyone can win 3 out of 5.

Artie, I have one perfect example of a creative shot he shoots. I've shown Ronnie Allen the shot also and he was seemingly amazed by it. Efren shot this many times too so I know he had complete cueball control. Problem is I don't know how to use the cuetable to diagram it. I'll try to explain it (Freddy will know the shot i'm talking about) Object ball is frozen on short rail to cueball which is also frozen to short rail lined up towards his opponents pocket. this could be the last ball on the table. He jacks up masses the cueball around the object ball leaving his opponent the same shot he was faced with. It was a thing of beauty that you have to witness. Phil

philwelch · Jan 12, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
I'm only 50 yrs. old and I pretty much hung around less than 10 poolrooms. I have not seen all of the greatest players through history, and neither have most of us. But the one thing that I do feel safe in saying is that Efren Reyes is the greatest player that ever lived in the Milky Way galaxy. He constantly does things that I cannot even imagine in my dreams. And he does them consistently. And he's been doing it for years. He does things that the commentators of his matches do not even mention beforehand, because the things he does are not even in the realm of possibility for most people to consider. Until someone from Andromeda comes along, I think we are all seeing history in the making by watching Efren's fantastic abilities.

This is what I'm trying to say. I've seen many great 1 hole players and could see there shot choices before they shot in many cases but Efren would always surprise me. One example is on youtube where he is playing Grady Matthews. Efren puts Grady in the stack 3 or 4 times in a row from angles yuo can't imagine. Mind boggling stuff and pretty to watch. When I saw that I remembered what Freddy the Beard told me umpteen years ago "find out where your opponent doesn't like to be and keep putting him there."

Cowboy Dennis · Jan 12, 2009

masse shot

masse shot

philwelch said:
Artie, I have one perfect example of a creative shot he shoots. I've shown Ronnie Allen the shot also and he was seemingly amazed by it. Efren shot this many times too so I know he had complete cueball control. Problem is I don't know how to use the cuetable to diagram it. I'll try to explain it (Freddy will know the shot i'm talking about) Object ball is frozen on short rail to cueball which is also frozen to short rail lined up towards his opponents pocket. this could be the last ball on the table. He jacks up masses the cueball around the object ball leaving his opponent the same shot he was faced with. It was a thing of beauty that you have to witness. Phil

I know exactly the shot that you are describing. I was shown it by a player who was spotted 13-4 and the break from Efren. When he showed me some of the things that Efren did to him it was hard to believe. But I knew he was not telling untruths. By the way, it doesn't seem like there is anyplace Efren does not like to be on a pool table. The only place you can put him and still win is in a chair.

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 13, 2009

philwelch said:
This is what I'm trying to say. I've seen many great 1 hole players and could see there shot choices before they shot in many cases but Efren would always surprise me. One example is on youtube where he is playing Grady Matthews. Efren puts Grady in the stack 3 or 4 times in a row from angles yuo can't imagine. Mind boggling stuff and pretty to watch. When I saw that I remembered what Freddy the Beard told me umpteen years ago "find out where your opponent doesn't like to be and keep putting him there."

THats very true. I dont like my opponent to put me were I dont like it. Her is a nother factor in my game. I liked playing One pocket shooters like Ronnie Efren Bugs. THe are predictable and you no what the are going to do . THats a big edge playing one pocket.It does not matter howe good some one shoots if you dont give them a shot. BUt everyone now days plays nothing put offense. I dont see or no off one moving One pocket player, DO YOU? ITs all offense and shoot. And if some one wants to but up the SCott Frost and EFrens Match. I will be happy to analize the game And You will learn a lot. And once the mistakes and the wrong shots get pointed out you will see one pocket in another light. And what I seen of Efrens game its all instinct. NO plane or stratage to his game. Just play shot by shot. And wereever he is just shot the best shot you can in the position your in. And If some one can have Efren explain what he is doing and you will be surprised what his answer will be. BUt those are the players you need to ask and see if the can answer your quistions. THe might not no the answers did you ever think about that.

Artie Bodendorfer · Jan 13, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
THats very true. I dont like my opponent to put me were I dont like it. Her is a nother factor in my game. I liked playing One pocket shooters like Ronnie Efren Bugs. THe are predictable and you no what the are going to do . THats a big edge playing one pocket.It does not matter howe good some one shoots if you dont give them a shot. BUt everyone now days plays nothing put offense. I dont see or no off one moving One pocket player, DO YOU? ITs all offense and shoot. And if some one wants to but up the SCott Frost and EFrens Match. I will be happy to analize the game And You will learn a lot. And once the mistakes and the wrong shots get pointed out you will see one pocket in another light. And what I seen of Efrens game its all instinct. NO plane or stratage to his game. Just play shot by shot. And wereever he is just shot the best shot you can in the position your in. And If some one can have Efren explain what he is doing and you will be surprised what his answer will be. BUt those are the players you need to ask and see if the can answer your quistions. THe might not no the answers did you ever think about that.

Show the taps and bring them out in the opion for discusion. WE cant do that with bugs. Because I dont think thier are any taps. Thier might be some of Ronnie. Those would be god to.

wincardona · Jan 13, 2009

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Show the taps and bring them out in the opion for discusion. WE cant do that with bugs. Because I dont think thier are any taps. Thier might be some of Ronnie. Those would be god to.

It's 4:00 am. and I just got in the house, so I decided to go on one pocket .org to hear what was said in reply to my who Reyes beat, and how much he spotted them, and how easily he won post.Oh by the way I forgot to mention that I did state that he never got beat playing one pocket. Now it would be safe to say that that is fairly impressive from a guy that doesn't know how to play and shoots the wrong shots frequently.

If Reyes hasn't earned the respect from some players, I certainly don't know why. Maybe someone can answer that question. I'm tired and had a long day, so i'm going to sleep but i'll be back.

Artie if you watch any tapes on Reyes playing one pocket you'll see the same thing in just about every match he plays. He usually makes the last ball.

setting the record straight.

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