Who Made You?

At the risk of appearing like we are the All-Zaniness site I'd like to ask a question that runs through my mind every now and then.

Who made you the player that you are today? Batman had the Joker, who did you have. Who taught you to gamble. Who taught you to play one-pocket. Who taught you to observe human nature in a poolroom. Who taught you most of what you know today?

I know that I have players in mind for myself, from Old Man Tom who insisted that all of us young guys tell him the next shot that we were going to play, before we shot the current shot. I can still hear him loudly asking, "what are you going to shoot next?", and I smell the aroma from his pipe.

To "Black Dennis" who made me the gambler that I am, by teaching the value of jacking the bet, to his detriment. I was known as "White Dennis" in that poolroom.

To "California John", who taught me to play better and to gamble better.

To "Black Bill" and "Reverend Dave" and "Taxi Danny" who taught me the value of being a decent human being in a poolroom. Something I already knew but they reinforced.

To Brian Presley who gave hours and years of his time to help me become a better player. You cannot give more than your time.

To "Cornbread Red" who taught me to challenge my opponent at every opportunity. And to never let up. And to play the table at times and to play my opponent at times. Once he beat me on a snooker table when he needed 10 balls and I needed 1 ball. Nothing like playing Red for a lesson.

To all of the other lesser players and thinkers that have taught me something worth knowing, and have helped my game.

Who made you and what did they do ?

Cowboy Dennis said:

At the risk of appearing like we are the All-Zaniness site I'd like to ask a question that runs through my mind every now and then.

Who made you the player that you are today? Batman had the Joker, who did you have. Who taught you to gamble. Who taught you to play one-pocket. Who taught you to observe human nature in a poolroom. Who taught you most of what you know today?

I know that I have players in mind for myself, from Old Man Tom who insisted that all of us young guys tell him the next shot that we were going to play, before we shot the current shot. I can still hear him loudly asking, "what are you going to shoot next?", and I smell the aroma from his pipe.

To "Black Dennis" who made me the gambler that I am, by teaching the value of jacking the bet, to his detriment. I was known as "White Dennis" in that poolroom.

To "California John", who taught me to play better and to gamble better.

To "Black Bill" and "Reverend Dave" and "Taxi Danny" who taught me the value of being a decent human being in a poolroom. Something I already knew but they reinforced.

To Brian Presley who gave hours and years of his time to help me become a better player. You cannot give more than your time.

To "Cornbread Red" who taught me to challenge my opponent at every opportunity. And to never let up. And to play the table at times and to play my opponent at times. Once he beat me on a snooker table when he needed 10 balls and I needed 1 ball. Nothing like playing Red for a lesson.

To all of the other lesser players and thinkers that have taught me something worth knowing, and have helped my game.

Who made you and what did they do ?

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Dennis,

Great input as to how you arrived at where you are today.

Most of us are in similar situations. One major difference is the level of talent that we had when we started playing pool.

Many player's had a head start in that area. Guys like Buddy, Archer, SVB, and many others, enjoyed a real "leg up" in natural talent.

You can make a lot of different scenarios, as to who might have beaten who, in any particular time frame.

The bottom line is, who can say that they are ahead of the game in $$$ won or lost..... Not very many.

Corn and I played 3 times, I won all 3 times, does that mean I am a better player than Red... No, Red has probably won more money at pool, than I ever could have, due to his being in the right place at the right time, and his savvy.

How would you say Red has fared in the win/loss column ? A real solid, good player, would have been lucky to break even. Look at Grady or Hopkin's. If they are anywhere close to even in a lifetime of matching up and gambling... I would be shocked.

Wouldn't you ????

Somebody like Jack Cooney might well be in the plus column, but all the guys who say they never booked a loser, just have very selective memories...I've read all their books.

Last Chance to Edit

Last Chance to Edit

Still waiting 15 more minutes for editing. Then I may respond.

Cowboy Dennis said:

Still waiting 15 more minutes for editing. Then I may respond.

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Go for it !!!!

SJDinPHX said:

Go for it !!!!

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Dick,

Not to compliment myself in reverse, but you are correct. I had absolutely no physical talent for any pocket billiard game when I started out.

Harry "Poochie" Sexton once told me, " you look like you're going to fall over when you shoot, but you don't miss ". He was being generous, I did miss sometimes.

It took me forever to get comfortable on a pool table.

I know that if you and I had played each other, both in our primes, that you would have won some money. But you would have worked very hard for it.

And you did not answer the question. Who did you learn from? All of us learned from somebody. Tell me the things you learned and from whom did you learn them?

Cowboy Dennis said:

Dick,

Not to compliment myself in reverse, but you are correct. I had absolutely no physical talent for any pocket billiard game when I started out.

Harry "Poochie" Sexton once told me, " you look like you're going to fall over when you shoot, but you don't miss ". He was being generous, I did miss sometimes.

It took me forever to get comfortable on a pool table.

I know that if you and I had played each other, both in our primes, that you would have won some money. But you would have worked very hard for it.

And you did not answer the question. Who did you learn from? All of us learned from somebody. Tell me the things you learned and from whom did you learn them?

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Dennis,

I am going to send you something I've been working on for a long time now.
It is more of a legacy to my offspring. It is not something that even a pool nut would find interesting, so I won't bore them with it. (but I will bore you )

It relates to how a kid, from a small town in Colorado, became somewhat competetive in a pretty tough arena, dominated by mostly "big city pool hustler's"

The learning process was brutal.

Dick <----came up the HARD way. Nobody showed me nothing, I learned by getting my brains beat out !

SJDinPHX said:

Dick <----came up the HARD way. Nobody showed me nothing, I learned by getting my brains beat out !

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Yes sir. Now you are talking. You observed and learned. While getting your brains beat out. Who beat your brains out and what did you learn? Inquiring minds want to know.

Learning the Hard Way

Learning the Hard Way

Dick,

I receieved your e-mail. Thanks a million for sharing your thoughts.

Dennis

Cowboy Dennis said:

Yes sir. Now you are talking. You observed and learned. While getting your brains beat out. Who beat your brains out and what did you learn? Inquiring minds want to know.

Click to expand...

Not trying to be secretive, but if you got my email, you will know where I'm coming from.

It's only about one tenth finished and it won't read anything like a Jay Helfert novel. But it is true and factual story of a pool degenerate.

Dick <---doubts if he will ever finish it.

SJDinPHX said:

Not trying to be secretive, but if you got my email, you will know where I'm coming from.

It's only about one tenth finished and it won't read anything like a Jay Helfert novel. But it is true and factual story of a pool degenerate.

Dick <---doubts if he will ever finish it.

Click to expand...

Dick,

I got your e-mail. You are probably one of the people that I would have played and learned from years ago. And I'm not sure if stories like that are ever really finished. A strong experience to say the least.

Dennis

I am still working on being made. Not much chance of that happening at this stage in life.

Anyway, when I was learning the game, nobody would tell you anything except to shut up and stay out of the way. So I learned by playing and watching mainly. Although there was one guy who was a pretty good short-stop level player who showed me a few things, and he got my money for his effort. I eventually got to where I could beat him at all the games. He owned a big pet shop in Dallas and offered to stake me on the road, but by that point I had decided I didn't want to try to make a living playing pool. After that I mostly just hustled bar table action while I was in school to help pay the bills. Then I hung it up for a long time.

About six months ago the bug bit me again and I bought a table. My goal now is to learn the right way to play the game because I feel like I never did when I was young.

I've always known there was a right way to play because I saw it done by a guy named San Jose Dick while I was coming up. He was phenomenal. Unbeatable. Everything about his game was unreal, from his execution to his self-confidence to his smarts. And that was everybody's opinion, even the very good players. I was too scared as a kid to even talk to him much less ask him a question about pool. You just didn't do that back then. Imagine the thrill for me when I came on this site and bumped into him.

So, I'd say my main inspiration was Dick. Not because he taught me anything in particular, but because he showed how great the game can really be played. I'll never have the execution skills back to play that way now, but I figure I can still learn the knowledge anyway. And that's mainly what I am looking for (along with taking some of these old roadies and hustlers I play against in the local tournament to the wood shed every now and then ) .


Skin

i started playing as a kid around 11- 12 years old in the community center. there were no pool halls in my town. self taught noone to show anything. when i went to college in new orleans there was a man who worked for the school who played pool in the schools pool room(and gambled in town). he was unique in that his right hand had a thumb but he lost all his fingers.he would hold the q between his thumb and the stubb of his hand. man could he get english on the ball!!! no death grip i guess lol.he taught me patterns but also taught me to always use alot of english ( i learned later not good). i got to where i could run 30 balls in straight pool 7 balls consistenetly in 9 ball more than occasionally run out in 9 ball if the layout was right. at that point did not even know what one pocket was.

i was good enough to hustle the bars around town taking money from the college kids. did not always do so well in the pool rooms although i did win from time to time when some lesser player thought they would take advantage of a kid. then i met ed morgan or jim the harvard kid. ill tell the whole story another time but basically he came to the school poolroom got me to give him the 4 (in 9 ball) and proceded to beat me with me convinced i was better!!!! turned out it was a setup put up by my roommate i got most of my money back and ed taught me how to play lemon pool. the strength of center ball for control and position . how to see and execute caroms kicks and banks. but most importantly he taught me to play one pocket and took me to the sports palace to watch earl heisler and tried to explain to me what was going on. he was only in town for a few weeks and have never seen ,heard or talked to him again but i want to thank him for opening up my eyes to what great pool is all about, what masters at the game can do, and most of all planting the seed for what has become the pool game i love the most one pocket. if anyone knows him and can share any stories or how to contact him that would be great.

lastly there was an opthalmologist who knew the game and could play almost as good as anybody in the sports palace until he had to play for a dollar. with me paying for time it was the cheapest lessons i could get.with what i learned i did much better in the pool rooms around town but the players in the sports palace were too good for me.( never learned how to match up well) i gave up pool for 25 years or so and now play often enough to start to remember what i forgot and get back into allitle bit of stroke and then dont play again for months. but my love for the game is tremendous and vicariously i play on the site. i try and see what i would do when you give out problems and am learning much from all the dicussions. hope this long winded story was not too boring. but thats my story.

sjd, like most of your generation you want to keep things close to the vest but me personally i would be very interested if you wished to share alittle bit of how you got where you are

That's a good story, lll. Especially the part about the guy with a thumb and no fingers.

Skin

Great stories lll,

It's comforting to know that I wasn't the only one who fell for a lot of gaffs.
It's all a learning experience, you either survive or you don't.
Sounds to me like you survived pretty well.

Dick <---is still trying to survive !

Just starting out playing pool I have to give all credit to Super Mike. The nickname because the superman insignia was often worn somewhere and was on his SUV and pool case. He introduced me to all pool games, and we spent countless hours playing one pocket and caroms.

When I began to move up to another level, Richard Garcia aka Little Richard, gave attention to me and gave me a lot of solid advice about the mental side of pool, about fundamentals, and most importantly, about one pocket. He's the one who really taught me that eight and out was the best move in one pocket. He was also a big center ball advocate. I always thought center ball was the hardest thing to do in pool, but largely because of his advice, I generally addressed the cue ball around the center.

My School of Hard Knocks Professors include (in no particular order) Cliff, Jeremy, Gabe, David G (9 ball lessons ), Ronnie Allen, Rodney (our very own androd), Bob Ogburn (sp?), Scott Frost, Tony Chohan. My apologies to any champion I may have left off the list for one reason or another.

i'm a work in progress. i'm not made yet.

Turned out by a couple of short-stops

Turned out by a couple of short-stops

Gene Skinner, Marcel Camp, Joe Procita, Cannonball Eddie Keinowski, Baby Face Whitlow, Bud Harris, Hollywood Jack Nicholson, Jewtown Red, Brooklyn Jimmy, Pancho, etc., etc.

the Beard