The quality of the safety

petie · Dec 7, 2014

The WWYD that was also on the AZ forum gave me the idea to start a thread I have been mulling for a long time. I sometimes play much weaker players but always try to match up fairly even so either of us can win. I much prefer playing better players though. The main reason for this is how much tougher better players leave you. Instead of having a blocker, they will leave you stuck to the back of the blocker. Instead of creating distance, they will lay you frozen on the head rail. It is the quality of their safes that makes the game so tough and so fun. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this. I'd also love to know how to do this consistently.

gulfportdoc · Dec 7, 2014

Good idea, Petie. And as originator of this thread, you might consider electing its CEO as Artie B.

~Doc

keoneyo · Dec 7, 2014

I noticed that my one pocket buddies were always practicing banks or difficult long cut shots. But never practicing getting whitey stuck to the rail or frozen to another ball. I set up as part of my practice regimen to do that. I learned that it is a difficult skill to learn comparable to making banks or making hard shots.

I spent a summer working for a painting contractor. We'd paint office buildings and apartment complex's. We'd spend hours spraying the place, doing volume work but there was always these guys who would come in after we were done to do the detail work. They were fine craftsmen who knew how to use a hand brush in every facet. These were the coolest guys who commanded respect. Never dripped, never spilled. Could paint a straight line without a rule.
I was never in their league.

So goes my game in one pocket.

Shortstop · Dec 7, 2014

My first poolroom experience was in the 60`s at Howard-Paulina in Chicago...I would spend a good deal of days & nights there....Almost always...Artie would also, be there....When,not in a match..He was practicing...Feathering an object ball & sticking it to the rack...Over & Over..From every angle & all distances...He would do this for hours & hours....He obviously,got very good at it!!

petie · Dec 8, 2014

gulfportdoc said:
Good idea, Petie. And as originator of this thread, you might consider electing its CEO as Artie B.

~Doc

I officially nominate Artie Bodendorfer as the CEO of this thread if he is willing to accept. Can you help us, Artie?

Artie Bodendorfer · Dec 8, 2014

gulfportdoc said:
Good idea, Petie. And as originator of this thread, you might consider electing its CEO as Artie B.

~Doc

I rely dot want to be a CEO because they get payed too much money. But if you have a quisition I will answer it. I would be happy to answer your quisition.

Artie Bodendorfer · Dec 8, 2014

Shortstop said:
My first poolroom experience was in the 60`s at Howard-Paulina in Chicago...I would spend a good deal of days & nights there....Almost always...Artie would also, be there....When,not in a match..He was practicing...Feathering an object ball & sticking it to the rack...Over & Over..From every angle & all distances...He would do this for hours & hours....He obviously,got very good at it!![/QUOTE

This is a hard one to guess who this is. Because so many of these people are gone. Who are you it would make things easier. Bob Rose n Berg. Greg Peterson Joey gold Berry wicker.

If it was in the 1960 s. You would have some miles on your speedometer.If you do not want to reveal your real name. I cant say anything about you. I cant even say good by if the time runs out.

But its a strange world we live in Munster Jack.

Good luck with your remain g life.And the sun will still come out tom marrow. Maybe not in Chicago.

petie · Dec 9, 2014

One question would be is there a method of thinking or shooting that makes it easier to stick to the back of a ball say after you go off a ball and off the side rail.

straightback · Dec 9, 2014

petie said:
One question would be is there a method of thinking or shooting that makes it easier to stick to the back of a ball say after you go off a ball and off the side rail.

Like many things involving precise aiming, I try to envision getting exactly where I want to be, within even 1/4". Obviously you cannot be THAT accurate, but it makes you focus on touch and precision. Another trick that works for me is to "just barely get there." For example, when I bury you on the stack, I try to have the CB come to the side of the stack and not run into the side of the stack, but come to within say 1/4" of the side of a ball. Ideally I would like to deprive you of oxygen and cut of a large portion of the table by freezing you.

If this sounds crazy, it might be. I guess I'm basically saying don't over do it. If anything barely under do it on these mind of shots. Seems to work for Senor Morales, I've observed. How many times have we watched one of his cue balls "just get there?"

Dr. Bill, something tells meyou might agree.

P.S. with respect to the OP's discussion of laying on the head rail, it's common sense, but when you can, try to use one of the long rails to come in at an angle so that you angle of entry has a lot of points that are close to the cushion.

wincardona · Dec 9, 2014

straightback said:
Like many things involving precise aiming, I try to envision getting exactly where I want to be, within even 1/4". Obviously you cannot be THAT accurate, but it makes you focus on touch and precision. Another trick that works for me is to "just barely get there." For example, when I bury you on the stack, I try to have the CB come to the side of the stack and not run into the side of the stack, but come to within say 1/4" of the side of a ball. Ideally I would like to deprive you of oxygen and cut of a large portion of the table by freezing you.

If this sounds crazy, it might be. I guess I'm basically saying don't over do it. If anything barely under do it on these mind of shots. Seems to work for Senor Morales, I've observed. How many times have we watched one of his cue balls "just get there?"

Dr. Bill, something tells meyou might agree.

P.S. with respect to the OP's discussion of laying on the head rail, it's common sense, but when you can, try to use one of the long rails to come in at an angle so that you angle of entry has aot of poi ts that are close to the cushion.

What ever your method is in playing a good cue ball, if it works for you then by all means stick to it. But what you said about making you focus is the key to playing not only a good cue ball but any thing else that is required, as well. Of course you will need to develop or "hone" your skills in order to have the confidence to focus, or to be comfortable with your ability to execute. It's funny how preparing your self for something enables you to "focus" much more easily.

When you have the information ingrained in your memory arsenal it's then up to you to develop the skills needed to play the game as good as your ability allows you to. You can't do any more than that. Educate yourself and prepare your self for the contest, and most importantly..trust your instincts.

Dr. Bill

crabbcatjohn · Dec 9, 2014

how i play the rails

how i play the rails

straightback said:
Like many things involving precise aiming, I try to envision getting exactly where I want to be, within even 1/4". Obviously you cannot be THAT accurate, but it makes you focus on touch and precision. Another trick that works for me is to "just barely get there." For example, when I bury you on the stack, I try to have the CB come to the side of the stack and not run into the side of the stack, but come to within say 1/4" of the side of a ball. Ideally I would like to deprive you of oxygen and cut of a large portion of the table by freezing you.

If this sounds crazy, it might be. I guess I'm basically saying don't over do it. If anything barely under do it on these mind of shots. Seems to work for Senor Morales, I've observed. How many times have we watched one of his cue balls "just get there?"

Dr. Bill, something tells meyou might agree.

P.S. with respect to the OP's discussion of laying on the head rail, it's common sense, but when you can, try to use one of the long rails to come in at an angle so that you angle of entry has aot of poi ts that are close to the cushion.

When i try to lay the ball on rail, especially on a long lag type shot where i want to freeze it on the foot rail i try to use a side rail to scrub off speed. I guess this is the same kind of thing you are mentioning

straightback · Dec 9, 2014

Well said, Bill. I mentioned your name as I have your commentary remarking how Efren tends to "just barely get there." I think it just has a lot to do with the beauty of Efren's control of speed. Maybe amongst his most honed skills is speed, which I'm sure has a lot to do with three cushion and balkline.

It is uncanny how often he can freeze the cue ball to the foot rail in an uptable game. Even at 60 years old, he's still unmatched at that kind of skill. If you notice, he will also always under hit these shots versus over hitting them.

wincardona · Dec 9, 2014

straightback said:
Well said, Bill. I mentioned your name as I have your commentary remarking how Efren tends to "just barely get there." I think it just has a lot to do with the beauty of Efren's control of speed. Maybe amongst his most honed skills is speed, which I'm sure has a lot to do with three cushion and balkline.

It is uncanny how often he can freeze the cue ball to the foot rail in an uptable game. Even at 60 years old, he's still unmatched at that kind of skill. If you notice, he will also always under hit these shots versus over hitting them.

You're correct about how Reyes plays his speed shots, however, it seems like he plays to come up short as opposed to hitting the rail then back off. What I mean when I say "it seems" like he plays to fall ..just short.. is he has such a great touch that he doesn't have to play one side of the shot as opposed to the other. Like for mostly every one else when they look at a situation they say ..I need to make sure I get to the rail, or, I need to make sure I fall just short of the rail
With Reyes it appears that he is playing ..just short.. when he's really playing to get ..precisely where he needs to be. His cue ball control, particularly in terms of the speed is unparalleled.

Dr. Bill

petie · Dec 9, 2014

wincardona said:
You're correct about how Reyes plays his speed shots, however, it seems like he plays to come up short as opposed to hitting the rail then back off. What I mean when I say "it seems" like he plays to fall ..just short.. is he has such a great touch that he doesn't have to play one side of the shot as opposed to the other. Like for mostly every one else when they look at a situation they say ..I need to make sure I get to the rail, or, I need to make sure I fall just short of the rail
With Reyes it appears that he is playing ..just short.. when he's really playing to get ..precisely where he needs to be. His cue ball control, particularly in terms of the speed is unparalleled.

Dr. Bill

Another thing I've noticed about Efren and I believe it is one of the main reasons he can do some of the unbelievable things he can do is he can put more spin on the ball with less speed forward. I mean he can kind of 'sting' the cue ball with English but not move it forward very far or very fast. Without his uncanny stroke, he would not be able to do some of the things he does. A normal stroke drives the cue ball too far to get the same spin. I don't know if I explained it right but I know what I mean.

crabbcatjohn · Dec 9, 2014

Buddy

Buddy

petie said:
Another thing I've noticed about Efren and I believe it is one of the main reasons he can do some of the unbelievable things he can do is he can put more spin on the ball with less speed forward. I mean he can kind of 'sting' the cue ball with English but not move it forward very far or very fast. Without his uncanny stroke, he would not be able to do some of the things he does. A normal stroke drives the cue ball too far to get the same spin. I don't know if I explained it right but I know what I mean.

If you've ever played or watched Buddy play he does something similar. He can kind of uses his stroke to kind of slowly "Push" the object ball with the cue ball and make the object ball seem to take off and roll forever and the cue ball just kind of be dead. And he can also do it the opposite way changing his stroke and making the cue ball just keep creeping on and on to his position after a soft shot on the object ball. You would swear he hits them short but they just keep going on to where he needs them.. His cousin can hit them the same way.

baby huey · Dec 10, 2014

What shots to practice or how to practice in one pocket is/has been a question I have thought about forever. After you gain an advanced skill level, not championship mind you, I think the cross corner bank shot is the most important shot to practice. The reason being that many a cross corner bank shot hangs up for your opponent and you come to the table with a dilemma either being forced to shoot a bank shot yourself because you are hooked on his ball or you have an opportunity to get back into the game by making an off angle bank yourself. I would shoot the cross corner bank as much as possible to gain confidence and guess what? You'll make it more often because you practice it.

Texdance · Dec 11, 2014

Artie Bodendorfer said:
I rely dot want to be a CEO because they get payed too much money. But if you have a quisition I will answer it. I would be happy to answer your quisition.

Back in the day Artie once had a big dollar challenge, something like $30K, to teach his method of playing one pocket. Does that bet or challenge or whatever still exist? Will the Artie method of one pocket ever be made into an instructional DVD, especially now that, sad to say, time is running out for all of use who started playing pool way back in the 60's?

Second question, back when you were practicing, what did you find most important to practice?

thanks if you choose to answer, and good life to you.

gulfportdoc · Dec 11, 2014

jerry matchin said:
What shots to practice or how to practice in one pocket is/has been a question I have thought about forever. After you gain an advanced skill level, not championship mind you, I think the cross corner bank shot is the most important shot to practice. The reason being that many a cross corner bank shot hangs up for your opponent and you come to the table with a dilemma either being forced to shoot a bank shot yourself because you are hooked on his ball or you have an opportunity to get back into the game by making an off angle bank yourself. I would shoot the cross corner bank as much as possible to gain confidence and guess what? You'll make it more often because you practice it.

I agree, Jerry. These shots come up every game, and a one-pocket player ought to look at a simple cross corner with almost the same confidence as he does a straight in. I doubt if I make more than 50% of them, so I hope to take that advice and practice them with renewed vigor and purpose.

~Doc

straightback · Dec 11, 2014

Tap, tap. This is one of Varner's precepts, it he takes it further by practicing pulling shape anywhere on the table off these kinds of banks, which means pocketing these banks at every speed and with every English.

Artie Bodendorfer · Dec 11, 2014

Texdance said:
Back in the day Artie once had a big dollar challenge, something like $30K, to teach his method of playing one pocket. Does that bet or challenge or whatever still exist? Will the Artie method of one pocket ever be made into an instructional DVD, especially now that, sad to say, time is running out for all of use who started playing pool way back in the 60's?

Second question, back when you were practicing, what did you find most important to practice?

thanks if you choose to answer, and good life to you.

I will answer your second question first. Every shot is a important shot. The simplest shot can put your opponent in the biggest trap. The most important thing to learn playing one pocket.

Is how to think p;laying the game of one pocket. Everybody practices shooting position kicking Kiss shots and combinations. Nobody practices one pocket how to think and what to do. Everybody is to busy practicing shooting banking and playing position.

I have never seen a player play correct one pocket. Mistake free. And every time I mention it. People reply there is no such thing. Or it cant be done. The bottom line is there is such a thing. But nobody knows the answer. I no and I have the answer. And if I would explain it to you. Then you would see and understand. They use to say the world was not round. Tell some one proved it and gave the correct answer.

I have the answers and nobody else has the answer. They can guess. Or assume but that wont get it.

For the first question. That was not about a book. That was about a challenge match. To the whole world. And Freddy posted it on one pocket . org. My challenge is still up there. It was a 30 thousand dollar bet. Who knows how to play the game of one pocket. The correct way. Three or 5 judges. And both people get one hour to explain how to play the game.

The bet is still on if someone wants to take it. Nobody is barred. One hour to explain how the game should be played. From the beginning to the end. And if you want the game plan and how to play correct one pocket mistake free. You can have it for 30 thousand dollars.

Then all the information is yours. You can keep it for your self. OR wright a book its all your's. You can keep it for your self. Or sell it or sell books. You will have the answer. And I wont take it to the grave with me. And the information is worth way more. And nobody else has it. But you.

Its a antique one of a kind. And nobody else has it. You decided if you would want the fortune of youth. For one pocket.I believe you will be more than satisfied. And I will explain the whole game from the beginning to thee end. I will even come in person and hand you the information.

If you think its not real or a con game. Do not go for the deal. There are no tricks or gimmicks. This is the real thing. Think about it you don't have to make a quick decision. Unless I bite the dust. Its too late once I am gone.

The quality of the safety

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